Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Adamant]

39 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Our batting, which hasn't crossed 200 except one inning so bowlers are consistently under pressure to dismiss opposition cheaply and trying too hard. Trying too hard can make lose control.

This was the first innings of the match, our batsmen haven’t batted yet.

 

There is absolutely no logic in defending this performance pf our bowlers, they have been piss poor, apart from Bumrah.

 

If we remove Bumrah, the rest of the attack looks weaker than Bangladesh.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

This was the first innings of the match, our batsmen haven’t batted yet.

 

There is absolutely no logic in defending this performance pf our bowlers, they have been piss poor, apart from Bumrah.

 

If we remove Bumrah, the rest of the attack looks weaker than Bangladesh.

Bowling first means bowlers will still have to deliver.  Selection also hasn't been up to the mark. 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Hate to keep going back to the 2020-21 BGT matches, but that Indian team succeeded without this pace blueprint in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane.

 

There are always exceptions and Gabba 21 was one such.  In Melbourne 20 we had Bumrah bowling at 90 mph. In Sydney we had Saini bowling 140 k+ too. 

 

In 2018-19 we had both Bumrah and Shami bowling very quickly and Ishant generating bounce. 

 

 

2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Even Bumrah was not available in Brisbane where we won with Siraj, Natarajan, Thakur and Saini. Maybe the Ozzie batting is stronger (simply due to the addition of Travis Head), but their captain and bowling is quite the same as 4 yrs ago. India's current attack - on paper - is better and certainly quicker than that one. So, what's the issue?

 

Siraj was bowling at similar pace but generating more zip and bounce off the deck in 20-21. 

 

Just look at Perth 24.  We had Bumrah and Harshit bowling 140 k+ with bounce. After that Bumrah is bowling within himself due to lack of support and the others looking just brisk medium without accuracy. 

[singhvivek141]

4 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Hate to keep going back to the 2020-21 BGT matches, but that Indian team succeeded without this pace blueprint in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane. Even Bumrah was not available in Brisbane where we won with Siraj, Natarajan, Thakur and Saini. Maybe the Ozzie batting is stronger (simply due to the addition of Travis Head), but their captain and bowling is quite the same as 4 yrs ago. India's current attack - on paper - is better and certainly quicker than that one. So, what's the issue?

 

Few reasons 

1. Captaincy was more proactive, Rahane is much better captain that Rohit. Even Vihari in domestics is much more engaged than Rohit who is happy scratching his balls and his beard while yelling at others.

 

2. Our batting unit clicked, everyone contributed. Here we are playing some dead corpses from whom a score of 30-40 is a miracle.

 

3. The "Head" factor. He is going to take our wheels off.

[tapandrun]

Aus pitches are v.hard , tough for landing for a pacer. For a new bowler either they need to be ready to bowl flat out fast or should have exp. bowling in Aus condition.

The only way to get wkts or be effective in Aus is either be fast or ready to bowl longer spell hitting the pitch hard with heavy ball. So that either the  ball skids of the surface or bounces extra.

 

Bowling sub 140 with anything behind it is like the best thing batter can ask for, no deviation even bounce and nothing that pitch can offer. It v.much like pak pitches with some bounce.

 

Looked at how head play, he attacks which is kind of kryptonite to Ind bowling. Once batter starts attacking Ind bowler have no answers, saw same in in T20 wc, in ODI wc and ODI wc SF when Mitchell went after the bowling.

 

Think there are few areas Ind bowler can try is to bowl away from him so that he can not cover drive or cut, bowl at a height and length that he can not cut or pull, make him play on drive. These 3 places are where he can score that quickly and unable to fetch 4/6.

[maniac]

Sorry @singhvivek141 bro, Akashdeep looks even more ordinary than Mukki

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

Sorry @singhvivek141 bro, Akashdeep looks even more ordinary than Mukki

 

Won't blame you, some are saying even Avesh is better than him.

Typical response, when those who are not in the XI becomes automatically better than those who are playing.

[rkt.india]

 Height of Aussie fast bowlers is making a difference. Their shortest pacer Cummins is 193 cm tall. Almost 10 cm taller than our tallest Akashdeep. They do get that extra bounce required to get the edges.

[express bowling]

On 12/16/2024 at 11:49 AM, rkt.india said:

 Height of Aussie fast bowlers is making a difference. Their shortest pacer Cummins is 193 cm tall. Almost 10 cm taller than our tallest Akashdeep. They do get that extra bounce required to get the edges.

 

What is preventing us from picking taller pacers ?

 

Why are we hell bent on picking shorter ones ?

 

Unless we have generational talents like Bumrah, Steyn or Marshall, the taller and bouncy pacers do well in SENA. 

 

We have discussed the need for tall, bounce bowlers often enough ... but Indian TMs don't understand. 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2024 by express bowling

[Nikhil_cric]

29 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

 Height of Aussie fast bowlers is making a difference. Their shortest pacer Cummins is 193 cm tall. Almost 10 cm taller than our tallest Akashdeep. They do get that extra bounce required to get the edges.

It's why our bowlers need more airspeed. 

 

Australian seamers have the release height to be effective even at lower speeds 

 

The difference is even more extreme in South Africa and that's why we keep getting pantsed over there

[Lord]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

What is preventing us from picking taller pacers ?

 

Why are we hell bent on picking shorter ones ?

 

Unless we have a generational talents like Bumrah, Steyn or Marshall, the taller and bouncy pacers do well in SENA. 

 

We have discussed the need for tall, bounce bowlers often enough ... but Indian TMs don't understand. 

 

 

 

 

thats why I want Prasidh to get another chance. Atleast something to work with.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

 

thats why I want Prasidh to get another chance. Atleast something to work with.

Prasidh and Harshit are tall by Indian standards but both are shorter than Cummins around 188-190 cm. Starc and Hazlewood are 197, 196 cm tall.

[express bowling]

24 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Prasidh and Harshit are tall by Indian standards but both are shorter than Cummins around 188-190 cm. Starc and Hazlewood are 197, 196 cm tall.

 

6'2" or higher is good enough for regular bounce if a pacer has pace like Harshit and Prasidh.

 

Mayank, at 6'1" with high arm action and express speeds, gets so much bounce too. 

 

So many of 6'3" Arshdeep's wickets are due to a combination of swing and the ball hitting the bat / edge higher than the sweet spot area. 

Edited December 16, 2024 by express bowling

[ind_hyd1]

Hope someone like Gurnoor Brar starts making more impact in Domestic cricket. Then we might have the 6'5 quick we are looking for.

 

But honestly I just can't understand  why our bowlers loose pace so quickly, is it lack of desire to excel or they just are happy to play IPL. Akashdeep this season has not touched the speeds he  bowled in his debut test. Siraj has lost consistency and rest less said the better.

 

I remember Wasim AKram in his chat show once gave an example of Avesh khan and attributed his loss of pace to the fact that after earning bucks in IPL these people have lost desire.

 

This seems to be a issue now

Edited December 16, 2024 by ind_hyd1

[Lord]

11 minutes ago, ind_hyd1 said:

Hope someone like Gurnoor Brar starts making more impact in Domestic cricket. Then we might have the 6'5 quick we are looking for.

 

But honestly I just can't understand  why our bowlers loose pace so quickly, is it lack of desire to excel or they just are happy to play IPL. Akashdeep this season has not touched the speeds he  bowled in his debut test. Siraj has lost consistency and rest less said the better.

 

I remember Wasim AKram in his chat show once gave an example of Avesh khan and attributed his loss of pace to the fact that after earning bucks in IPL these people have lost desire.

 

This seems to be a issue now

 

Akash had dengue apparently.

[the don]

Cummins and Starc have regularly bowled 140 kph here.

Will’O Rourke was bowling upto 150 kph over in Newzealand.

[Need4Speed]

3 minutes ago, the don said:

Cummins and Starc have regularly bowled 140 kph here.

Will’O Rourke was bowling upto 150 kph over in Newzealand.

Rourke is promising indeed..the extra height also helps..

[ind_hyd1]

19 hours ago, Lord said:

 

Akash had dengue apparently.

Yes, but he had ample time to recover and work on his fitness ,strength.  These days the teams have special strength and conditioning coaches. He wasn't playing in the first 2 matches, Pat cummins skipped T20's  and ODI's for the same reason

[Nikhil_cric]

Will O Rourke clocked 153 kph today. In a Test match. 

 

 

[express bowling]

37 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Will O Rourke clocked 153 kph today. In a Test match. 

 

 

O'Rourke was hardly touching 142 k in tests in India. 

 

What was his 2nd fastest ball of this test ?  Was this a speed gun error ?

Edited December 17, 2024 by express bowling