Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[singhvivek141]

14 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Pace is not always, everything. Umar and Yudhveer have awkward bounce, which is going to be plenty for Australia and South Africa. Having said that, they didn't seem trundlers. They looked around 135'ish. 

 

I agree, but Umar isnt that quick either.

There is a visual difference in the pace at which bowl reaches to batter between him & Yudhvir.

Yudhvir we know bowls 137-143k in T20's...so maybe 132-138 here.

Umar looks slower than him, even Avesh is looking quicker and Avesh is a 130-136 bowler with few deliveries touching 140.

 

Aryan Pandey of MP is also a trundler...though has good height.

Edited January 24, 2025 by singhvivek141

[Rightarmfast]

19 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

I agree, but Umar isnt that quick either.

There is a visual difference in the pace at which bowl reaches to batter between him & Yudhvir.

Yudhvir we know bowls 137-143k in T20's...so maybe 132-138 here.

Umar looks slower than him, even Avesh is looking quicker and Avesh is a 130-136 bowler with few deliveries touching 140.

 

Aryan Pandey of MP is also a trundler...though has good height.

With whatever method you are measuring the speed, of which I have no idea, perhaps you could be right. However, Avesh doesnt have the awkward bounce that Umar has. So, I have reallly no idea why you are bringing him to the conversation. 

And yes, I do not think that trusting eye is always a good method of measuring pace. Srinath was way quicker than he looked. 

Umar is in my opinion, pretty good with bounce and he can be plenty useful with a bit of training. 

[singhvivek141]

14 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

With whatever method you are measuring the speed, of which I have no idea, perhaps you could be right. However, Avesh doesnt have the awkward bounce that Umar has. So, I have reallly no idea why you are bringing him to the conversation. 

And yes, I do not think that trusting eye is always a good method of measuring pace. Srinath was way quicker than he looked. 

Umar is in my opinion, pretty good with bounce and he can be plenty useful with a bit of training. 

My point is, if Umar is a 130kph trundler, no point wasting time on him. Plus he is 31 years old. Nishant Saranu, Gurnoor, Yudhvir are younger and hence training them makes more sense.

 

All other names & their pace I brought was for reference, but we can skip them if it brings nothing to the table.

[Rightarmfast]

18 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

My point is, if Umar is a 130kph trundler, no point wasting time on him. Plus he is 31 years old. Nishant Saranu, Gurnoor, Yudhvir are younger and hence training them makes more sense.

 

All other names & their pace I brought was for reference, but we can skip them if it brings nothing to the table.

I think you have missed out on the comprehension part. I said, why were they not in Australia. Which, for ease of understanding, means when we have tall bowlers with awkward bounce( that Umar has ), why were these bowlers not preferred. My point was never-' Bring them to NCA or MRF'. 

I believe bracketing Umar as 130k's bowler can be weird. Unless you have seen him in person or on speed gun. 

 

There could be many younger ones out there. But unless they are given a chance, makes no sense. Hence, someone like Umar should have been given a chance. Or if there's someone out there younger, with the exact qualities that Umar has, at a better pace, then maybe.  

Edited January 24, 2025 by Rightarmfast

[singhvivek141]

19 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

I think you have missed out on the comprehension part. I said, why were they not in Australia. Which, for ease of understanding, means when we have tall bowlers with awkward bounce( that Umar has ), why were these bowlers not preferred. My point was never-' Bring them to NCA or MRF'. 

I believe bracketing Umar as 130k's bowler can be weird. Unless you have seen him in person or on speed gun. 

 

There could be many younger ones out there. But unless they are given a chance, makes no sense. Hence, someone like Umar should have been given a chance. Or if there's someone out there younger, with the exact qualities that Umar has, at a better pace, then maybe.  

Yeah, I missed Australia part.

Thought you're talking about for the future.

[Lone Wolf]

Yudhvir was hitting the bat hard enough.  Might be bowling early 140's at least.

[Nikhil_cric]

How has Gurnoor bowled?

[MK55]

Any news about Mayank?? 4 months out now.

 

I hope it isn’t a Bumrah like situation of some years back where they waited and then surgery and then more wait and then 1 year out.

[MK55]

Need some entertainment. I hope Wood and Archer break some bones in the next match. May be that will awaken these obsequious fools.
I’m sure if they strike someone malnourished like Pandya, damage can be caused lol. 
But firstly need a pitch for that.

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

I think you have missed out on the comprehension part. I said, why were they not in Australia. Which, for ease of understanding, means when we have tall bowlers with awkward bounce( that Umar has ), why were these bowlers not preferred. My point was never-' Bring them to NCA or MRF'. 

I believe bracketing Umar as 130k's bowler can be weird. Unless you have seen him in person or on speed gun. 

 

There could be many younger ones out there. But unless they are given a chance, makes no sense. Hence, someone like Umar should have been given a chance. Or if there's someone out there younger, with the exact qualities that Umar has, at a better pace, then maybe.  

We have seen him bowl plenty of times before. He is not some new bloke on the circuit. He debuted 9 years back. He clocked 130-135 range before mostly. 

[express bowling]

8 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

. I said, why were they not in Australia, means when we have tall bowlers with awkward bounce( that Umar has ), why were these bowlers not preferred.

 

Ever since I have been watching cricket, for some reason, most of the pacers who get awkward bounce are generally ignored or sidelined in India. There are odd exceptions like Srinath. 

 

Probably the prima donna sooperstar batters are afraid of getting injured in the nets.  Srinath established himself when there were no 25 yr+ superstar batters. 

 

Remember the 2020-21 Australia tour when the Aussies were gaga over Kartik Tyagi and his awkward bounce at pace, but he was thrown out of the squad for ever when he injured KL Rahul and Mayank Agarwal. 

 

Playing club cricket, I was berated many times by coaches for bowling hostile balls and told to pitch it up.  Told that cricket is in art form and not boxing. I was thrown out of the football team for tackling hard and playing in a tough way. I called the coach a little girl and wasn't picked for more than a year.

 

This was the 1990s but I guess Indian mindset towards sports will never really change. We still believe in playing sports the pansy way. 

[tapandrun]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Ever since I have been watching cricket, for some reason, most of the pacers who get awkward bounce are generally ignored or sidelined in India. There are odd exceptions like Srinath. 

 

Probably the prima donna sooperstar batters are afraid of getting injured in the nets.  Srinath established himself when there were no 25 yr+ superstar batters. 

 

Remember the 2020-21 Australia tour when the Aussies were gaga over Kartik Tyagi and his awkward bounce at pace, but he was thrown out of the squad for ever when he injured KL Rahul and Mayank Agarwal. 

 

Playing club cricket, I was berated many times by coaches for bowling hostile balls and told to pitch it up.  Told that cricket is in art form and not boxing. I was thrown out of the football team for tackling hard and playing in a tough way. I called the coach a little girl and wasn't picked for more than a year.

 

This was the 1990s but I guess Indian mindset towards sports will never really change. We still believe in playing sports the pansy way. 

 

The Ind cricketing system is not inclined to fast bowling , ind found success with spinners and they carried on with it and never developed fast bowling from ground up.

 

Even the MRF pace academy had to face a lot of challenges, the bcci was not ready to work with them seeing them as competition back then. The MRF had to work with local boards and ask them to send their bowlers but local boards would send some batters and some newbies here and there and the scope was nt whole Ind. until v.recent cricketer would come from major centres not the tier2/3, zone quotas only reduced with ipl , there are still some of it but now ipl teams have bigger say. 

 

Coaching till v.recently bowling full/bowl up-to batter was the mantra and only thing said and taught to the fast bowlers. 

Ind did try tall bowlers like yohannan, wasan ,kumaran but those were no good. 

 

Its just that Ind cricketing system does not understand fast bowling, they do not have captains to support and build a fast bowling line-up.

At domestic cricket one team/captain can v.much good with a full spin bowling line (LA spin) up and may be some1 who can bowl up-to 120s kmph. Many team have found success with this.

And if the bcci ask to promote fast bowling local boards make some swing friendly wkts where dibbly-dobly bowler gets chunk of wkts .

 

The direction needs to be clear a bowler has to be tall and 135+ kmph , this is how its in Aus. Eng is also moving towards that from ground-up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2025 by tapandrun

[tapandrun]

8 hours ago, MK55 said:

Any news about Mayank?? 4 months out now.

 

I hope it isn’t a Bumrah like situation of some years back where they waited and then surgery and then more wait and then 1 year out.

No update. Its now he plays when he plays kind of mode by bcci. Not exactly sure what they are fixing , his action or the ability to bowl longer spells or strength and conditioning. 

 

The next update will come from his IPL team's camp

 

[tapandrun]

14 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Yudhvir was hitting the bat hard enough.  Might be bowling early 140's at least.

He is hit the deck kind of bowler with some batting ability, should have been part of Ind t20i plans 

[Suhaan]

Each and every upcoming speedster must leave for SENA ,no hope here

[singhvivek141]

13 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Ever since I have been watching cricket, for some reason, most of the pacers who get awkward bounce are generally ignored or sidelined in India. There are odd exceptions like Srinath. 

 

Probably the prima donna sooperstar batters are afraid of getting injured in the nets.  Srinath established himself when there were no 25 yr+ superstar batters. 

 

Remember the 2020-21 Australia tour when the Aussies were gaga over Kartik Tyagi and his awkward bounce at pace, but he was thrown out of the squad for ever when he injured KL Rahul and Mayank Agarwal. 

 

Playing club cricket, I was berated many times by coaches for bowling hostile balls and told to pitch it up.  Told that cricket is in art form and not boxing. I was thrown out of the football team for tackling hard and playing in a tough way. I called the coach a little girl and wasn't picked for more than a year.

 

This was the 1990s but I guess Indian mindset towards sports will never really change. We still believe in playing sports the pansy way. 

 

Story of every fast bowling fan.

 

Those who seek art in a competitive game should take up canvas & paint brush.

 

Cricket is a competition where you have to beat your opponent. Whether you do it by deceiving the batter off the pitch movement or by scaring them (within the rules of cricket) by hostile bowling, it shouldn't matter.

 

[tweaker]

15 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Ever since I have been watching cricket, for some reason, most of the pacers who get awkward bounce are generally ignored or sidelined in India. There are odd exceptions like Srinath. 

 

Probably the prima donna sooperstar batters are afraid of getting injured in the nets.  Srinath established himself when there were no 25 yr+ superstar batters. 

 

Remember the 2020-21 Australia tour when the Aussies were gaga over Kartik Tyagi and his awkward bounce at pace, but he was thrown out of the squad for ever when he injured KL Rahul and Mayank Agarwal. 

 

Playing club cricket, I was berated many times by coaches for bowling hostile balls and told to pitch it up.  Told that cricket is in art form and not boxing. I was thrown out of the football team for tackling hard and playing in a tough way. I called the coach a little girl and wasn't picked for more than a year.

 

This was the 1990s but I guess Indian mindset towards sports will never really change. We still believe in playing sports the pansy way. 

How many promising fast bowlers may have lost due to this attitude.

If we listen to retired cricketers commenting in Ranji matches ,they are genuinely offended when some one is bowling fast .They just believe pacers should bowl some over gently and handover the ball to spinners.

 

[vishalvirsingh]

hats off to Agarkar and Gautam for selecting Harshit RANA ahead of SIRAJ in england T20 and who knows if Jasprit is not fit, i guess Harshit will play Champions too.

 

if Harshit gets an opportunity to show case his bounce, i am sure he will move ahead of Siraj permanently in the pecking order. Already Harshit is ahead of AKASH Deep.

 

Actually, I am most DISAPPOINTED with Akashdeep- he was bowling 136 to 145K on PATTA's in INDIA and he bowled 130 to 139.5K on SPICY bouncy Australian tracks- His Line length was better than everyone bowling for INDIA , most immaculate and perfect but his Pace gave the Australians time to save the edge. had he bowled 135 to 145k he would have got as many wickets as Bumrah and we would have won the Series. One of the reasons why we lost the series was Akashdeep.

 

 

[vishalvirsingh]

another big problem is Shardul is in his best batting form and he is out, even his bowling form seems decent.

why is the selection committee not able to recognize the FORM of someone who has proven that he is someone closest to HARDIK. in places like australia , he could have been in the 20 member squad along with Nitish.

 

this was a green track kind of similiar to Aussie pitch and jaiswal , rohit and all batsman failed and later shardul was the highest scorer in both innings. scoring highest in one innings and again in the second. i am not trying to say that Nitish is worse than shardul. 

these guys who become PACE All-rounders are a very SPECIAL Breed, see hardik/shardul/nitish , if i was the selctor and i had all three all-rounders available, i don't mind flying all 3..not to play all 3 in the 11 but the one who suits the best - let the captain and GG take the call. but playing a jaddu and a washie on a FLAT australian track and playing Mr. Ashwin in australia and he not getting wickets and finally retiring where as even a NITISH was creating chances in every over.

 

I dont understand why cant they simply understand when their spinners will be ineffective, the last test we lost we had prasidh and Siraj trying their best and jaddu gave a lot of runs and nitish got 1 wicket  , had we got another pacer we could have won

see Pak they played 4 pacers in australia ( including AR)..bhai samjho spinners dharti pe BHOJ hote hai Green tracks pe , free ke run luta te hai ..,

 

[express bowling]

" Aggressive " Gambhir still preferring just 1 specialist pacer and 0 fast bowlers.