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Pakistan and minorities

BeautifulGame

By BeautifulGame
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Texan Grand Master

Texan

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When a Pakistani Muslim applies for a passport or national ID card' date= they are asked to sign an oath that no Muslim anywhere in the world is asked to sign. The oath goes like this: "I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad an impostor prophet. And also consider his followers, whether belonging to the Lahori or Qadiani group, to be non-Muslims." These guys are seriously sick
That is seriously sick if true. Then, what do they do with the non-Muslims? Make them declare themselves "kafirs"?
Deleted_User_1 Newbie

Deleted_User_1

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Posted

The root cause of this is that Islam is generally followed by the masses as an intolerant religion. Tell me, how many Muslim majority countries have stable democracy, freedom of press, true separation of church and state. Apostasy in Islam is punishable by death. You cannot criticize anything about the religion without getting slapped with blasphemy or getting killed. It is amazing that such a large portion of the world's population follows an organized religion in such an orthodox way in the 21st century. In that respect, the religion is stuck in the middle ages. Otherwise, how do you explain all the fundamentalism, terrorism and sheer barbarity in the name of religion. I am no fan of India, but there is no comparison between India and Pakistan. India may be riddled with numerous problems, but Pakistan is a joke!!

sensible-indian Veteran

sensible-indian

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They were by-polls. By-polls usually have a very low turn out, so it is hardly an accurate barometer. Yeah but they are also an indication of the mood. Leaving that aside, I gave you a link which showed example of 2 different methods used by BJP candidates. The Hindutva vitriolic speeches resulted in poor performance in states where BJP smashed a few months back. And a sensible issue based approach by the other BJP guy made them open their account in WB (a place where they are super weak). And all this happened after a few months post a major BJP wave. It is majority appeasement. The thing is, when BJP started out in the 80s, they were a Gandhian Socialist party. You already have INC that uses that gimmick, plenty of other socialist parties. They needed a gimmick of their own. Hence the shift to Hindutva by around 1986. If INC can indulge in minority appeasement, is it a crime for BJP to do the opposite of that? The problem is that Congress doesn't talk about turning India into some religious based institution while terms like Hindu Rashtra, Ghar Wapsi and several others are common from the other side. RSS is the engine with which BJP runs. Not yet. It will. It is slowly happening in states like Telangana, Andhra & WB. Its never happening. If it happens, we are screwed. In another thread, some were saying India (like Pakistan) went towards one side when making laws. Pakistan went towards majority while we went towards minority. I can tell you that that's what makes India awesome. You see, veering towards ANY side is NOT right but when you veer towards the minority and things screw up, majority will wake up and do the needful to set it right. Just like Congress was given a royal f*** off this election. BUT if you veer towards majority and things go wrong, you are screwed. You have to account for the fact that people are biased in general and laws favoring majority are risky. I will give you the best possible example. Pakistan. There are so many Pakistani liberal guys there who are SIMPLY HELPLESS and FRUSTRATED to see the mess their country is in. They can do nothing. The majority simply has strong views about laws like blashphemy, ahmedi that its hard to make changes. It would decades to set it right if they START NOW. Till 80s, Pakistan was progressive (I don't know how the laws were but as a nation it wasn't radical). Then a crack called Zia started the radicalization of every aspect in their country and soon things snowballed into the mess they are in right now. When you veer towards majority, all it takes is a few nut cases to hijack the whole situation and change the course of the country. I am not saying India will have a similar situation but going towards Hinduism is not right and its risky. Seeing the fanatic RSS group, I dread that thing. As a nation, we are at the cusp of something MAJOR and right now religion should be pushed far behind and we should move ahead. Minorities don't need to be appeased but please...no Hindutva movements. By that logic, I guess Hindu nationalism worked in states like Maharashtra, Jharkhand, Jammu, Haryana and secularism failed. Hindu nationalism works in some places but not all. Heavy duty Hindutva wasn't the reason BJP won in 2014 (the focus was on development and governance) and when the focus shifted, it did very badly in the by elections. Issue approach outperformed it in a TOUGH STATE for them. The BJP ran a negative, shoddy campaign in Delhi. Hangover from other victories I guess. AAP ran a much better campaign. There is a difference between winning an election and running a govt. Let AAP run a govt. smoothly for 1 year, then we'll all do bhangra to 5 saal Kejriwal. That is true but not talking about running the government. We are just discussing impact of Hindutva on elections. I can also say - basically they need a solid campaign to win elections or else their Hindutva won't even give them 4 seats out of 70 in Delhi where they hold the Central power? Just goes to show how little effect Hindutva has and how much effect other stuff has. For this to happen, we need a UCC, so that every citizen is equal in the eyes of this country's judiciary. Hindus have more or less been living under a UCC since the mid 50s. So why do we still not have UCC in India? Take a wild guess :winky: True secularism will never come around as long as Muslims and Christians don't agree to enforce UCC. I myself am a minority (Christian), I know how people from my community are and how they think in general. This won't happen anytime soon. Neither does NDA have the numbers in the Rajya Sabha to enforce it. Minorities will keep continuing to vote in blocks for those parties who appease them. This is the result of pampering since during the freedom struggle. So, as long as minorities keep claiming benefits on the basis of their religion a.k.a the basis of pseudo-secularism, you will have to deal with religion in politics. Respect to you for being so unbiased, bud. Rare to see minorities like you. As for me, I am a Hindu with extremely rigid religious beliefs. But I firmly believe that if we are to progress as a nation, we must keep our personal beliefs to ourselves. Uniform Civil Code is a must. No appeasement for any community. But no Hindutva too. We have to take efforts towards that. Even if we can't for now, its ok. We will get there. No need for Hindutva nonsense. It anyway isn't that effective for BJP and as a progressive nation we are better off NOT veering towards majority. What are your takes on the below? http://www.livemint.com/Politics/BPA0nRTa8MQKq41xDGDDCK/Row-over-St-Xaviers-principals-advice-to-students-on-votin.html http://www.anhadin.net/article216.html As long as you have rubbish like the above ^^, lunatic RW fringe will always be relevant. You don't solve a problem like this by going to the other end.
In Red.
coffee_rules Grand Master

coffee_rules

Posted
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Pakistani-Hindus-can-apply-for-long-term-Indian-visa-online/articleshow/47019017.cms?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=timesofindia
The online application system will help Pakistani nationals belonging to minority community, particularly Hindus and Sikhs, who seek refuge in India for fear of religious persecution back home. These minority nationals come to India with the intention to settle permanently. The government, sympathetic to their cause, has been taking steps to streamline the procedures to facilitate their stay in India.
Good move. India should be home to all persecuted Hindus and Sikhs world over, just like Israel is for Jews. This is a humanitarian issue.
Muloghonto Grand Master

Muloghonto

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Islam is fantastic religion for an autocratic monarchy' date=' but doesn't converge well with modern day democracy.[/quote'] The point of all religions are to lend cridibility to autocracies. without religion, you cannot have a dynastic autocracy. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2
Temujin Khaghan Newbie

Temujin Khaghan

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The point of all religions are to lend cridibility to autocracies. without religion, you cannot have a dynastic autocracy. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2
Protestant form of Christianity, doesn't give as much importance to the religious heads as the Catholics and Muslims do. It has merged best with democracy. Even Hinduism which was a terrible religion to be in the medieval age, has reformed itself to a certain extent and combines well with democracy. The problem with Islam is that mullahs/ right-wing often claim superiority at statecraft and dominate the policy making. Islam as a state religion often keeps meritocracy under the heel. People are more prone to support the better muslim rather than the better person for the job, unlike in India, where congress had to really **** for BJP to get elected. If hindus were same as muslims, RSS would be the ruling party in India right from Independance.
mishra Grand Master

mishra

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Blasphemy laws are standard practice in all Sunni Muslim countries. Where there are no such law general people take care of the perptrators. Why single out Pakistan, only?

Tiger80 Newbie

Tiger80

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Posted
The point of all religions are to lend cridibility to autocracies. without religion, you cannot have a dynastic autocracy. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2
Kim jong from North Korea is saying Hello
Muloghonto Grand Master

Muloghonto

Posted
Posted
Kim jong from North Korea is saying Hello
Juchi is their new religion. Also, what I stated is 99.99% true, not 100%. Nothimg is true 100% of the time, so pointing out exceptions doesnt break a rule. I can give you a thousand plus socities in thousands of years who have used religion as a basis of dynastic autocracy. Also, n.korea has a religion. Its called juchi. Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk 2
vipin Newbie

vipin

Posted
Posted

The condition of minorities in pakistan is about a 100 times worse than it is in India. You can read these two Quora threads to get an idea. http://www.quora.com/Living-in-Pakistan/What-does-it-feel-like-to-be-a-Pakistani-Hindu http://www.quora.com/What-is-it-like-to-be-an-Indian-Muslim The hindu population in Pakistan has gone down from about 15% in 1947 to less than 2% now. And these feckers are apparently proud of that or atleast indifferent.

Guldozer Newbie

Guldozer

Posted
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The hindu population in Pakistan has gone down from about 15% in 1947 to less than 2% now. And these feckers are apparently proud of that or atleast indifferent.
This 'fact' provided is so dumb its unbelievable. Major reason for the large decrease in percentage of Hindus is that majority of those Hindus were in present day Bangladesh. Over half the Pakistani population was from East Pakistan. West Pakistan only had 2% Hindus in 1951 and still has 2% Hindus. What If I say the number of Muslims in India halved from 13th August 1947 to 14th August 1947. So I can infer that 'evil Hindus' must have killed those 'innocent Muslims'? What you're saying is pretty much equivalent to that.
mishra Grand Master

mishra

Posted
Posted
http://www.dawn.com/news/1177951/when-you-are-in-the-majority-it-is-easy-to-be-blind
"When I started at school, the kids asked each other if they were Shia or Sunni. I have no idea why a first-grader would start off an introduction like that, but they did. And, as soon as I told everyone I was a Shia, no one wanted to befriend me." “I wished I could disappear when girls would make teams to play and no one would pick me for their team… I was told every day by the little girls that I prayed wrong, that I was crazy for doing ‘maatam’ and more.” Maria, a Pakistani Christian tells me, “I have friends – really old friends – who still try to convert me: ‘Maria, you know I love you, but I don’t want you to go to hell*’. I’m so used to it now, I can’t even pretend to act surprised,” she says, smiling wanly.
The page also has some data and trend
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