Is pujara's role of 30(100) working?

[cowboysfan]

Its not the 30(100) thats the problem.he just is not timing the ball like he used to early on,imo he has a fear of failure now which is affecting his game.

[Ankit_sharma03]

8 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

Its not the 30(100) thats the problem.he just is not timing the ball like he used to early on,imo he has a fear of failure now which is affecting his game.

Spot on, fear of failure is as bad as casualness of akmal, shehzad or a rohit

A good bowling attack having steyn, anderson, broad, starc will relish watching a batsman in fear. Also when ur technical weakness is now known to world he is giving up on his mental side of the game as well. 

 

This Mental state affects the whole team and we did see the Diff when Rahul was batting with dhawan(even though being new on crease) as to being set with Pujara. Or take Last game how dhawan opened up as soon as kohli came in started rotating the strike. Even after that Marathon boredom batting by him Kohli came in a lil boggled. Signs how it affects the whole team. 

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Number of starts he has wasted From Sa tour till Aussie tour n ill add this Wi tour stats as well

25(98),32(100),23(71),38(69),55(101),28(117),43(83),24(52),18(64),21(38),43(93),25(71),21(70),16(67),46(159),19(59),17(50)

 

The reason i mention this number is to show the number times he was set having played so many deliveries. 

So what was the point of playing so many deliveries when u end up throwing ur starts so many times. Not only m questioning his slow innings m also questioning the number of time he has thrown his wicket when set. 

I commented on the strategy to focus on building a platform first since Ind has the 5-1-5 combination. However, I agree that there is a scope for improvement 

 

 

Quote

 

His plan may be to be an anchor but at the end of the day he is just like Dhawan or Rohit who gets starts at times and then throws them.

 

One difference is that Dhawan or Rohit play at relatively higher strike rate so if they get out early, it does not help Ind much. While Pujara's 30s-40s ensure that he is helping to prevent the loss of early wkts. Since Pujara is looking to stay at the crease, it allows the batsmen at the other hand to play relatively freely 

 

It is the guys like Dhawan that have to play at a relatively higher strike rate. If he gets out early, Pujara cannot come in and start to play like a Dhawan. On the other hand, if the first wkts falls late and if Ind needs to score briskly, Kohli can promote himself to #3 

 

What is positive about the scorecard that you have posted is that Pujara has played 80 balls per inning on an avg. Considering that he bats at #3, he has helped to negate the new ball in helpful conditions when the bowlers are fired up. Allowing others to come in late and make the most of relatively easier batting conditions 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

46 minutes ago, rett said:

I commented on the strategy to focus on building a platform first since Ind has the 5-1-5 combination. However, I agree that there is a scope for improvement 

 

 

One difference is that Dhawan or Rohit play at relatively higher strike rate so if they get out early, it does not help Ind much. While Pujara's 30s-40s ensure that he is helping to prevent the loss of early wkts. Since Pujara is looking to stay at the crease, it allows the batsmen at the other hand to play relatively freely 

 

It is the guys like Dhawan that have to play at a relatively higher strike rate. If he gets out early, Pujara cannot come in and start to play like a Dhawan. On the other hand, if the first wkts falls late and if Ind needs to score briskly, Kohli can promote himself to #3 

 

What is positive about the scorecard that you have posted is that Pujara has played 80 balls per inning on an avg. Considering that he bats at #3, he has helped to negate the new ball in helpful conditions when the bowlers are fired up. Allowing others to come in late and make the most of relatively easier batting conditions 

 

 

Looking at those score do u think his startegy has been working and that strategy has been put to effect for quite number of games now. 

Yes as far as situation goes diff player would come in handy in different situation . So there would be days where dhawan n rohit quick run would be far more handy n vice versa. But this kind of innings isnt coming to any good effect in most situations.

 

N again he doesnt have impeccable technique like dravid or gavaskar and even those guys use to put bad balls away n keep moving the strike. He has been found wanting no wonder he gets out even with that many starts

So when ur plan is not working better change as 30-40's from a top batsman is not much of a use. 

 

Yes he has played 80 balls but the score hasnt much moved so it can still be 60/4 or 70/4 . You can play 300 balls but if u dnt score as being one of top 5 batsman then who ll. There would be days where others would fail does he expect tail to do the scoring that day.

 

And its such defensive mindset specially when the field was open an bowlers werent even looking to take wkts. Who was he trying to get tired the bowlers who have already given up hope of winning n what kind of movement was negotiating when openers gave u solid platform at 4RPO. Not putting bad balls away and not rotating striking when field was open is inexcusable. He can look at murali vijay who does this role in a proper way.

Showing an opposition fear of failure doesnt help team in anyway, neither it did on any past occasion neither it will in future.

 

 

[zen]

15 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Looking at those score do u think his startegy has been working and that strategy has been put to effect for quite number of games now. 

Yes as far as situation goes diff player would come in handy in different situation . So there would be days where dhawan n rohit quick run would be far more handy n vice versa. But this kind of innings isnt coming to any good effect in most situations.

 

N again he doesnt have impeccable technique like dravid or gavaskar and even those guys use to put bad balls away n keep moving the strike. He has been found wanting no wonder he gets out even with that many starts

So when ur plan is not working better change as 30-40's from a top batsman is not much of a use. 

 

Yes he has played 80 balls but the score hasnt much moved so it can still be 60/4 or 70/4 . You can play 300 balls but if u dnt score as being one of top 5 batsman then who ll. There would be days where others would fail does he expect tail to do the scoring that day.

 

And its such defensive mindset specially when the field was open an bowlers werent even looking to take wkts. Who was he trying to get tired the bowlers who have already given up hope of winning n what kind of movement was negotiating when openers gave u solid platform at 4RPO. Not putting bad balls away and not rotating striking when field was open is inexcusable. He can look at murali vijay who does this role in a proper way.

Showing an opposition fear of failure doesnt help team in anyway, neither it did on any past occasion neither it will in future.

 

 

It appears as if you looking at things mainly through SR in tests. Well, in tests esp when playing overseas and with current 5-1-5 combination, SR is not everything. A team can score 120 runs in a session but if it is 120 for 3, the bowling side would be happier

 

One of the weaknesses of Ind playing overseas has been losing wkts. So at times it is better to be defensive and battle conditions than be aggressive and lose your wkt 

 

With WI all out in 60 overs on day 1. RR was never an issue in this game. Ind had to focus on batting for 200 overs and getting a good total

 

Playing with 5 bowlers, Ind would generally need 650 to 700 runs (both innings combined) in a test. Assuming that Ind plays around 200 to 220 overs, the RR would be around 3 to 3.3. So a batsman who is primarily looking to hold one end up can afford to play at a lower SR 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, rett said:

It appears as if you looking at things mainly through SR in tests. Well, in tests esp when playing overseas and with current 5-1-5 combination, SR is not everything. A team can score 120 runs in a session but if it is 120 for 3, the bowling side would be happier

 

One of the weaknesses of Ind playing overseas has been losing wkts. So at times it is better to be defensive and battle conditions than be aggressive and lose your wkt 

 

With WI all out in 60 overs on day 1. RR was never an issue in this game. Ind had to focus on batting for 200 overs and getting a good total

 

Playing with 5 bowlers, Ind would generally need 650 to 700 runs (both innings combined) in a test. Assuming that Ind plays around 200 to 220 overs, the RR would be around 3 to 3.3. So a batsman who is primarily looking to hold one end up can afford to play at a lower SR 

S/r when did i say score at 70+, m ok with even 50 s/r but a s/r is 28 is damn poor against such a toothless attack in easy conditions,

N again ill repeat my question has this plan worked a big noooooo. Not for the team neither for the individual. 

650 n 700 how are we suppouse to achieve that when one batsman is throwing wkts at 30-40 after getting starts and others wont work all time. So basically when even pujara is getting in he is failing to score big n thats the reason n overseas only 3 batsman scored runs n we didnt do well. 

 

He did spend enough time on wkt but didnt make runs. I dont look at S/r i look at runs n 30-40s are no runs by a proper batsman

[zen]

8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

S/r when did i say score at 70+, m ok with even 50 s/r but a s/r is 28 is damn poor against such a toothless attack in easy conditions,

N again ill repeat my question has this plan worked a big noooooo. Not for the team neither for the individual. 

650 n 700 how are we suppouse to achieve that when one batsman is throwing wkts at 30-40 after getting starts and others wont work all time. So basically when even pujara is getting in he is failing to score big n thats the reason n overseas only 3 batsman scored runs n we didnt do well. 

 

He did spend enough time on wkt but didnt make runs. I dont look at S/r i look at runs n 30-40s are no runs by a proper batsman

Not meeting your perceived expectations is not equal to failure. Ind is 1-0 up and in good position in this test. Rahul and Pujara had a good partnership (already talked about judging batting based on partnership), so where is the failure?

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, rett said:

Not meeting your perceived expectations is not equal to failure. Ind is 1-0 up and in good position in this test. Rahul and Pujara had a good partnership (already talked about judging batting based on partnership), so where is the failure?

Thats the failure- 

25(98),32(100),23(71),38(69),55(101),28(117),43(83),24(52),18(64),21(38),43(93),25(71),21(70),16(67),46(159),19(59),17(50).

Avg of 33 in away from home is not good.

Him being dropped was due to his failures, Not converting starts is a failure 

 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[zen]

8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Thats the failure- 

25(98),32(100),23(71),38(69),55(101),28(117),43(83),24(52),18(64),21(38),43(93),25(71),21(70),16(67),46(159),19(59),17(50).

Avg of 33 in away from home is not good.

Him being dropped was due to his failures, Not converting starts is a failure 

 

Going by scorecard numbers and your criteria, every batsmen except Rahul has failed in this inning so far .... and still Ind is leading by 150+ runs!

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, rett said:

Going by scorecard numbers and your criteria, every batsmen except Rahul has failed in this inning so far .... and still Ind is leading by 150+ runs!

M not talking about one innings , these are many number of innings he has failed. N thats what m saying his whole idea to just eat up deilveries is not working as he is not able to convert his starts. He is allowing opposition to get on him and there for he always falls even when he is set. Had he made similar scores to Rahane or kohli over a period of time i would have been foolish to question him. 

But these score and his mindset needs to questioned as they all have failed 

[rkt.india]

You will have to have 2 batsmen out of 5-6 who can guts it out and bide their time in tough conditions even if they do not score quickly, they can see off good bowling. Vijay and Pujara are those two players we need at the top. Pujara is struggling with confidence, so, we need to back him. People used to talk same about Dravid too. 

[express bowling]

Pujara has been one of our two best batsmen on difficult turning tracks, as we saw in SL and against SA.

 

But his consecutive failures in test series in NZ, England and Australia have put his reputation under pressure.

 

Slow batsmen are held in high esteem only when they  are very dependable in outside-subcontinent  test matches.  Something which Vijay has done.

Edited August 1, 2016 by express bowling

[mishra]

Replace Pujara with someone else and scorecard most likely after day 2 would have read WI:196 India:340 Wi :50/1 or in worse case they would have got Rahul out too and story would have been WI:196 India:240 Wi :150/5

 

I will leave t20 specialist icfers to figure out how it could have happened.

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, mishra said:

Replace Pujara with someone else and scorecard most likely after day 2 would have read WI:196 India:340 Wi :50/1 or in worse case they would have got Rahul out too and story would have been WI:196 India:240 Wi :150/5

 

I will leave t20 specialist icfers to figure out how it could have happened.

Sadly, Pujara has not been able to bat with the consistency and dependability outside the sub-continent,  that you seem to  think he has.

 

 

[mishra]

41 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Sadly, Pujara has not been able to bat with the consistency and dependability outside the sub-continent,  that you seem to  think he has.

 

 

It seems a lot of posters commenting that he isnt fit for "modern test match batting" what they mean is, he cant score fast enough. Last time i checked test match is still 5 day game and most results are certain by end of day 3. 1.5 days are still unused. 

 For Pujara, Runs scored hasn't been great. But balls faced is consistent and that's one of the most important part of test mach batting too.You grind the opposition and grind again and again. You got to have a player who can do it. Apart from Pujara, I dont see any other batsman technically solid and metally composed enough to be fitting into that role.

 

Edited August 1, 2016 by mishra

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

It seems a lot of posters commenting that he isnt fit for "modern test match batting" what they mean is, he cant score fast enough. Last time i checked test match is still 5 day game and most results are certain by end of day 3. 1.5 days are still unused. 

 For Pujara, Runs scored hasn't been great. But balls faced is consistent and that's one of the most important part of test mach batting too.You grind the opposition and grind again and again. You got to have a player who can do it. Apart from Pujara, I dont see any other batsman technically solid and metally composed enough to be fitting into that role.

 

Pujara can actually score quite briskly when his confidence is high.  He has scored a 200+ at  a SR of  60.  He has a 80+ innings at a SR of  89 , a 150+ at a SR of 57, and a century at 67 SR etc.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/32540.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

 

The main issue is playing according to the need of the team and the role assigned to the player.  

 

He has done that on spinning tracks and in the sub-continent and has not always done so when playing outside the sub-continent. The SA tour of 2013-14 was the only exception, where he showcased his potential.

 

What we want or do not want is not that material. But, as we are playing only 5 batters and KL Rahul pressing hard for a spot and Dhawan being a favourite of the team management, Pujara won't be able to breathe easy unless he gets some big scores outside Asia.  Ironically, he would perhaps have played better if he felt that his spot was secure.

Edited August 1, 2016 by express bowling

[mishra]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Pujara can actually score quite briskly when his confidence is high.  He has scored a 200+ at  a SR of  60.  He has a 80+ innings at a SR of  89 , a 150+ at a SR of 57, and a century at 67 SR etc.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/32540.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

 

The main issue is playing according to the need of the team and the role assigned to the player.  

 

He has done that on spinning tracks and in the sub-continent and has not always done so when playing outside the sub-continent. The SA tour of 2013-14 was the only exception, where he showcased his potential.

 

What we want or do not want is not that material. But, as we are playing only 5 batters and KL Rahul pressing hard for a spot and Dhawan being a favourite of the team management, Pujara won't be able to breathe easy unless he gets some big scores outside Asia.  Ironically, he would perhaps have played better if he felt that his spot was secure.

In both the tests he was in early as usual one of our openers failed. Think of a situation if he would have been out ealy too. With just 5 batsman and a keeper, there is no way team can afford 2 batsman in pavilion in first 20 overs. Looking at our top bats What i can guarantee you is that openers have allready scored their maximum in the series. So If we drop Pujara say nxt game,all it will need is one bad drive from top 3 bats and demoralized Windies will have their tails up and will come back to us in rest of series.

 

I think if Pujara is not told that he is one of the best test bat in Indian setup and his spot is safe than its problem of Indian team.

Edited August 1, 2016 by mishra

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, mishra said:

In both the tests he was in early as usual one of our openers failed. Think of a situation if he would have been out ealy too. With just 5 batsman and a keeper, there is no way team can afford 2 batsman in pavilion in first 20 overs. Looking at our top bats What i can guarantee you is that openers have allready scored their maximum in the series. So If we drop Pujara say nxt game,all it will need is one bad drive from top 3 bats and demoralized Windies will have their tails up and will come back to us in rest of series.

 

I think if Pujara is not told that he is one of the best test bat in Indian setup and his spot is safe than its problem of Indian team.

I , personally, am in favour of Pujara playing.   

 

Vijay, Rahul, Pujara, Kohli and Rahane would be my picks.

 

If Vijay is fit, then  2 among Rahul, Pujara and Dhawan will play and who those two actually will be, only time will tell.

Edited August 1, 2016 by express bowling

[sandeep]

Pujara has a role to play in this team.  Even with 5 batsmen.  Even against quality opposition.  But he needs to start putting up a few big scores.  And is rightly under the gun.  Just like Dhawan is.  

 

Test 1 - he did a good job seeing off the new ball threat, but then threw his wicket trying to step up his scoring.  Test 2 - he was determined to not throw his wicket away, and ended up playing a bit too defensive.  

 

He definitely deserves to be called out for his slow scoring.  But keep in mind that the others weren't haring away with scoring either.  Rahul scored bulk of his runs early when the windies were serving up scoring opportunities with the new ball.  He was slow on Day 2 as well.  So was Kohli until he got those 16 runs from long hops served up by Bishoo.  

[Bigg Brother]

I think it is important to understand the situation that Cheteshwar Pujara is in before coming down hard on him. Unlike the others, he faces lengthy breaks from top quality cricket because he doesn't play limited overs cricket. And so, the bowling he faces, the attitudes he encounters, the people he is with.....are all far removed from the standard of international cricket.

And so he will take time to come to grips with playing with the best all over again. He needs to be given time for the other way of looking at his effort is that he is good enough to be batting so many balls and so the runs will come as the confidence returns.

If he was getting out in single digits, there was a case for, maybe, playing Vijay and Dhawan as openers and Rahul at no 3. But he is batting long enough and needs backing. I am sure the team management is doing that because if a player feels every innings is his last, he does more damage to himself than a bowler can!

From-HARSHA BHOGLE