Is BK a viable test option

[BeautifulGame]

Umesh spraying is a thing of the past, tell me where did he spray the ball in this whole series? Umesh's ER in this series has been 3.26. BK 3.52.

Umesh sprayed and wasted the new ball in virtually every test bar first.Never tested the batsmen much after the Rajkot test either .

Thing of the past lol.He is averaging well over 70 in this series.Pathetic figures to say the least.These are the sort of figures even Ishant struggled put up.

Shami also had catches dropped and far easier ones.Yet that didnt that stop him from getting wickets .

[express bowling]

On 12/12/2016 at 10:00 AM, rkt.india said:

Not 96 mph. His fastest was 149, about 92 mph. 96 mph was the fastest delivery in that wc bowled by Shoaib.

No...Srinath's  fastest was 149.9 kph or 93 mph in the 1999 World Cup

 

As it was the first time speed guns were being used in a big tournament. that figure was publicized a lot.

 

He was said to have bowled a 156 kph delivery on the SA tour in 1996.

[Mosher]

28 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Umesh sprayed and wasted the new ball in virtually every test bar first.Never tested the batsmen much after the Rajkot test either .

Thing of the past lol.He is averaging well over 70 in this series.Pathetic figures to say the least.These are the sort of figures even Ishant struggled put up.5 wickets and most of them tail enders as well.

Shami also had catches dropped and far easier ones.Yet that didnt that stop him from getting wickets .

Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Woakes, Hameed are tail enders??? Wow, we get to learn something new everyday on ICF.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Mosher

[BeautifulGame]

Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Woakes, Hameed are all tail enders??? Wow, we get to learn something new everyday

on ICF.

My mistake on that .But apart from that most other points remains the same .

5 wickets in 8 innings at an average of above 70.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

 

Umesh sprayed and wasted the new ball in virtually every test bar first.Never tested the batsmen much after the Rajkot test either .

 

Thing of the past lol.He is averaging well over 70 in this series.Pathetic figures to say the least.These are the sort of figures even Ishant struggled put up.

 

Shami also had catches dropped and far easier ones.Yet that didnt that stop him from getting wickets .

post was about spraying, not about how many wickets he took. His ER shows that he has not sprayed the ball in this test series. Even in Mumbai test, BK had a higher ER than UY. How many wickets the great Anderson took with the new ball anyway? No bowler really could do much with the new ball in this series. Apart from Rajkot where he he had 3 catches in the first hour itself had nothing for the new ball.

[gakgupta]

Point 1) He is better than umesh on 90% of pitches. So he should be our second bowler.

Point 2) He is not a test bowler if he was playing for England, Australia, SA , Pak......but he certainly deserves a place in Indian test team. That shows our pace back-up. He is way better than Shardul & dhawal who are our backup

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[New guy]

On 12/11/2016 at 4:33 AM, MCcricket said:

BK has been discussed here a lot and with some posters having the faith n believe that he can be India's match winner in test cricket.

To me he cannot be a match winner or a second bowler in most conditions except when it is seaming and also mostly when the ball is newish and that is very limiting.

Yes we can take him to Eng and SA and he can play as a third seamer in some tests where it is alot in favour of seamers in that particular track only.

Why can BK not be a effective bowler n most obvious reason is his lack of pace, being M/F and bowling initially at 130 to 137 in test and then his ave speed boarding at 125 to 132 K is not good enough to hurry batsmen and for all his skills even if he manages to reverse or seam the semi new ball he is too slow to be effective.So does a captain have an option like he would when Shami or Umesh is playing to bowl him at any time of the day and on any track and expect a wkt n the answer is no.

BK's competition is not with Shami who is currently head and shoulders above any other seam bowler in India. It is with Umesh and others. Umesh has pace going for him yet he has done nothing with it. People like OP can open threads about BK who is just coming back from injury on the worst pitch for seamers but zero threads for Umesh who averages 52.33 in 8 tests vs BK averaging 15 this year. Speed gun obsessed fanatics, shame on people like OP

Edited December 13, 2016 by New guy

[MCcricket]

28 minutes ago, gakgupta said:

Point 1) He is better than umesh on 90% of pitches. So he should be our second bowler.

Point 2) He is not a test bowler if he was playing for England, Australia, SA , Pak......but he certainly deserves a place in Indian test team. That shows our pace back-up. He is way better than Shardul & dhawal who are our backup

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You are partially right, but why should we have the minnow mentality, it's not that we don't have talent but, talent needs to be supported and selected.

We finally have Virat n he supports fast bowlers, we have a larger pool of bowlers now n all we need to do is be pro active n fast one more bowler of Shami capability, the problem with BK is his limitations.

[New guy]

Let's compare the stats of this "not viable" bowler with the speed demon and all condition bowler Yadav, shall we. 

 

Country played against 

 

BK

Australia - averages 58, England average 28.30, NZ average - 12.66, WI average 17.88

 

Yadav

Aus 43.9, England 48.7, NZ 48.2, SA 12, SL 42.8, WI - 24.2

 

Country played in

 

BK

Aus 168 (1 match) England 26.6, India 29.8, WI 9.8

 

Yadav

Aus 43.9, India 34.2, SL 42.8, WI 29.8

 

Overall bowling average BK - 28.8 - Yadav 39

 

Average in 2016 - BK 15, Yadav 52.3

 

 

But of course BK who averages 29.8 in 8 matches on Indian pitches cannot bowl on flat pitches at all. He is not a test match option for us at all, but the 52.3 averaging Yadav can change games from nowhere and take wickets at will because of speed gun readings

Edited December 13, 2016 by New guy

[New guy]

10 minutes ago, MCcricket said:

You are partially right, but why should we have the minnow mentality, it's not that we don't have talent but, talent needs to be supported and selected.

We finally have Virat n he supports fast bowlers, we have a larger pool of bowlers now n all we need to do is be pro active n fast one more bowler of Shami capability, the problem with BK is his limitations.

His test stats show that the limitation is only in the mind of speed gun obsessed fans. 

[MCcricket]

8 minutes ago, New guy said:

Let's compare the stats of this "not viable" bowler with the speed demon and all condition bowler Yadav, shall we. 

 

Country played against 

 

BK

Australia - averages 58, England average 28.30, NZ average - 12.66, WI average 17.88

 

Yadav

Aus 43.9, England 48.7, NZ 48.2, SA 12, SL 42.8, WI - 24.2

 

Country played in

 

BK

Aus 168 (1 match) England 26.6, India 29.8, WI 9.8

 

Yadav

Aus 43.9, India 34.2, SL 42.8, WI 29.8

 

Overall bowling average BK - 28.8 - Yadav 39

 

Average in 2016 - BK 15, Yadav 52.3

 

 

But of course BK who averages 29.8 in 8 matches on Indian pitches cannot bowl on flat pitches at all. He is not a test match option for us at all, but the 52.3 averaging Yadav can change games from nowhere and take wickets at will because of speed gun readings

But if Umesh was selectively plYed on seaming tracks? One game he played even on decent Bombay Track, he look mediocre!

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, New guy said:

His test stats show that the limitation is only in the mind of speed gun obsessed fans. 

But  Bhuvi has been left out of the test teams by captains and coaches...the  " speed-gun obsessed fans "  had nothing to do with it.

 

After debut, Bhuvi has missed 17 test matches under both Kohli and Dhoni....when other pace options were available and fit, even Dhoni did not pick him regularly unless we were playing in swing-friendly England, and same applies to Kohli / Kumble.

 

Hussain & Shastri and Gavaskar & Botham were separately discussing what pace options India has when we travel overseas and both the pairs left out Bhuvi initially.  Shastri mentioned Bhuvi much late, almost as an after-thought.  And....the English are quite familiar with Bhuvi because he played 5 tests there and picked up a fifer too.

 

Even Viv Richards was talking about mainly Shami and a bit about Ishant, as India's pace prospects,  after the day Bhuvi picked a fifer in the WI.

 

I was reading an interview by a BCCI official and he was mentioning about the need to manage the fitness of  Shami and Umesh, our leading pacers.

 

Bhuvi's praises by ex-cricketers and administrators  seem more performance based....that is they praise him the day he does well and forgets about him after that.

 

You get the drift of what I am stating. ....   I get the impression that the cricket fraternity is not really interested in  Bhuvi as a long term test pacer option and  the moment a better bowler than Umesh and Ishant comes along, he will be chosen in place of  BK.   

 

I am not expressing my point of view here but what has actually happened or what I  have heard / read.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by express bowling

[Lannister]

Bhuvi brings absolutely nothing on pitches that doesn't suit him. He may get an odd wicket here and there early in a morning, but as the day progresses he'll be the last bowler to have in a captain's mind. Atleast with Yadav he asks batsmen questions whenever he get a chance to bowl, and the poor guy's been bowling on lifeless pitches all his career.  Of course his stats will look bad. 

[BeautifulGame]

Yadav bowled on helpful wickets in Srilanka and was pretty useless .

In the same series Shami is averaging 25 , Umesh averages 72.

But yeah somehow it's everyone else fault if he is poor

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

 

Umesh sprayed and wasted the new ball in virtually every test bar first.Never tested the batsmen much after the Rajkot test either .

 

Thing of the past lol.He is averaging well over 70 in this series.Pathetic figures to say the least.These are the sort of figures even Ishant struggled put up.

 

Shami also had catches dropped and far easier ones.Yet that didnt that stop him from getting wickets .

Umesh had catches dropped even in the 4th test, umesh has been synonymous with dropped catches in this series. 

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

But  Bhuvi has been left out of the test teams by captains and coaches...the  " speed-gun obsessed fans "  had nothing to do with it.

 

After debut, Bhuvi has missed 17 test matches under both Kohli and Dhoni....when other pace options were available and fit, even Dhoni did not pick him regularly unless we were playing in swing-friendly England, and same applies to Kohli / Kumble.

 

Hussain & Shastri and Gavaskar & Botham were separately discussing what pace options India has when we travel overseas and both the pairs left out Bhuvi initially.  Shastri mentioned Bhuvi much late, almost as an after-thought.  And....the English are quite familiar with Bhuvi because he played 5 tests there and picked up a fifer too.

 

Even Viv Richards was talking about mainly Shami and a bit about Ishant, as India's pace prospects,  after the day Bhuvi picked a fifer in the WI.

 

I was reading an interview by a BCCI official and he was mentioning about the need to manage the fitness of  Shami and Umesh, our leading pacers.

 

Bhuvi's praises by ex-cricketers and administrators  seem more performance based....that is they praise him the day he does well and forgets about him after that.

 

You get the drift of what I am stating. ....   I get the impression that the cricket fraternity is not really interested in  Bhuvi as a long term test pacer option and  the moment a better bowler than Umesh and Ishant comes along, he will be chosen in place of  BK.   

 

I am not expressing my point of view here but what has actually happened or what I  have heard / read.

 

 

rightly so bhuv may be a good chocolate boy, but we need phast bowlers. phast. 

 

 

[Vilander]

Umesh >> Bhuv based on the discussion and the poll.

 

Good  

[Vilander]

On 12/11/2016 at 7:10 AM, New guy said:

And BK had a LBW of him which was not given just for umpire's call (Umpire could have easily given it out like today, it looked out) and another which just went off the slips in his first over. Umesh catch the fielder just reached a finger tip to it

Umpires call is adjudged not out. Dropped catch is bowler did everything to get the wicket, some stud fielder just drops it. There is a diff.

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

My mistake on that .But apart from that most other points remains the same .

5 wickets in 8 innings at an average of above 70.

you find nothing out of normal with dropped catches ?, the dropped catches will have to be held at some point, for that you would need the catch inducing deliveries from phast Umesh. 

[BeautifulGame]

you find nothing out of normal with dropped catches ?, the dropped catches will have to be held at some point, for that you would need the catch inducing deliveries from phast Umesh. 

Shami had more catches dropped and far easier ones and yet averaged 25 in the series .So yeah even if 3-4 catches dropped I would still expect far more from our bowlers . Definitely not 5 wickets in 8 innings

Umesh couldn't't even use the new ball properly through out the series .