The real reason behind "Bowling Paavarhouse" decline

[Vilander]

3 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

If you start filtering out the bowlers based on cheating/ball tampering, match fixing and taking performance enhancing drugs, there wouldn't be anyone left.

If you are claiming that every cricket bowler takes enhancement drugs cheats ball tampers and fixes match or does one of these at the least then you are very wrong. 

[Ultimate_Game]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

If you are claiming that every cricket bowler takes enhancement drugs cheats ball tampers and fixes match or does one of these at the least then you are very wrong. 

I was talking about the beastly "phaaast" bowlers belonging to the "paavarhouse"

[BeautifulGame]

Steyn never came out and said he used bottle caps

How does it make a difference when his team is caught guilty of .

[rtmohanlal]

9 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

If you start filtering out the bowlers based on cheating/ball tampering, match fixing and taking performance enhancing drugs, there wouldn't be anyone left.

what ball tampering did Mcgrath did ? or for that matter Kapil ? yes ...even in these days of multicameras & neutral umpires  too , one off incidents of tampering are getting reported  rarely. But frankly, can we compare these one offs to the ones  that happend in those 'pre multicamera & neutral umpire' days ? To be frank the extend of tampering & the rarity of such incidents are chalk and cheese apart.

[sandeep]

why kick paaverhouse when down.  Tampering in the old days was not just limited to greenbros, although they really maxed it out under home umpires.  When you have the likes of John Lever claiming they need to put gobs of vaseline on their forehead "to prevent sweat from coming in the eyes" - I mean really?  

 

And probably Indians never got around to doing it because they didn't have bowlers who could benefit from it back in the day.  And they lacked the utter shamelessness and chutzpah that pitch-dancers and ball biters need to have before they act out those instincts. 

[rtmohanlal]

16 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

If you start filtering out the bowlers based on cheating/ball tampering, match fixing and taking performance enhancing drugs, there wouldn't be anyone left.

what ball tampering did Mcgrath did ? or for that matter Kapil ? yes ...even in these days of multicameras & neutral umpires  too , one off incidents of tampering are getting reported  rarely. But frankly, can we compare these one offs to the ones  that happend in those 'pre multicamera & neutral umpire' days ? To be frank the extend of tampering & the rarity of such incidents are chalk and cheese apart.

[Ultimate_Game]

7 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

what ball tampering did Mcgrath did ? or for that matter Kapil ? yes ...even in these days of multicameras & neutral umpires  too , one off incidents of tampering are getting reported  rarely. But frankly, can we compare these one offs to the ones  that happend in those 'pre multicamera & neutral umpire' days ? To be frank the extend of tampering & the rarity of such incidents are chalk and cheese apart.

My post was specific to the "paavarhouse", i.e. if you only look for bowlers who didn't cheat, tamper with the ball, fix matches, didn't take PEDS you will struggle to find any decent bowler in their entire history.

[rtmohanlal]

After the thrashing PAK got in AUS , bottle topper Khan has just  come out with some what statement  like  'PAK produces lot more quality fast bowlers  than India does ' .As 'sandeep' points out it requires utter shamelessness to come out with statements like these after being a chronic ball tamperor all thru   one's career.

[Trichromatic]

18 hours ago, kira said:

Akram was a genius but imran was a bloody cheat who would be a nothing bowler without ball tempering 

Apparently world cricket experts are fool for recognizing him as one of the greatest.

 

It could be a serious discussion topic, but it seems it has been turned into just random Pakistan pacers bashing thread.

 

For others - Good luck bringing down the quality of forum, but think before choosing your words and what you post.

[rtmohanlal]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

My post was specific to the "paavarhouse", i.e. if you only look for bowlers who didn't cheat, tamper with the ball, fix matches, didn't take PEDS you will struggle to find any decent bowler in their entire history.

yes... that is true for our padosis...Qasim Omar once accused king Khan of taking drugs, but was thrown out from the team.But as they say, treachery would one day be exposed to the world, however strongly one tries to conceal it. Atleast w.r.t  tampering it exactly happend that way with the likes of Aamer Sohail, Rameez Raja etc  came out with open statements regarding the same.

[Ultimate_Game]

1 minute ago, Trichromatic said:

Apparently world cricket experts are fool for recognizing him as one of the greatest.

 

It could be a serious discussion topic, but it seems it has been turned into just random Pakistan pacers bashing thread.

Problem is where do you draw the line and say how many wkts & stats were thanks to the "extra-curricular activities" and how many wkts & stats were due to actual talent & performances? The only thing we can see is that there has been a sudden and steep decline in fastbowling fortunes of a team known for producing fast bowlers, and the decline coincided with the advent of neutral umpires and crackdown on ball tampering.

 

For West Indies we know that the reason is the younger generation is leaning towards other sports - athletic, baseball, basketball etc. - where the money is and are no longer interested in cricket all that much. But for Pakistan nothing much has changed. Their domestic setup is still the same which used to churn out fast bowlers every other year and it's not as if they have suddenly started focusing on other sports.

 

What we're stating is that maybe the real reason is that the real reason for the decline is crackdown on ball tampering. If the likes of Amir, Wahab, Rahat Ali, Imran etc. were given a free hand to do whatever they wanted to do with bottle tops and umpires turn a blind eye to them the way they did in the instance mentioned in the article in the OP, I've no doubts these very bowlers would be bowling sides over and people would be going gaga over the new Wasim or the new Waqar. If you have a better theory about the startling downfall we're all ears.

[chewy]

30 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

After the thrashing PAK got in AUS , bottle topper Khan has just  come out with some what statement  like  'PAK produces lot more quality fast bowlers  than India does ' .As 'sandeep' points out it requires utter shamelessness to come out with statements like these after being a chronic ball tamperor all thru   one's career.

Imran Khan is deluded senile prick, still stuck in some bullshit geneticist theory with regards to how Pakistani are physically stronger hence better at bowling fast, yeah this is the same Pakistan who got beat in every war against India, same Pakistan who can't even scrap a single medal in Olympics or finish behind someone like Kiribati in Commonwealth games....and to think this delusional idiot wants to be PM of Pakistan..good luck

[jalebi_bhai]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

Apparently world cricket experts are fool for recognizing him as one of the greatest.

 

It could be a serious discussion topic, but it seems it has been turned into just random Pakistan pacers bashing thread.

 

For others - Good luck bringing down the quality of forum, but think before choosing your words and what you post.

Immi has admitted himself that he had ball tampered in county cricket and the likes of Aamir Sohail, Ramiz Raja have (both former Pakistan captains) confirmed that ball tampering was/is rampant in Pakistan cricket. Sohail has more or less laid the blame at Immi's door for ball tampering being fashionable. Funny thing is, Immi has tried to justify his actions in the past by stating that all bowlers tamper.

 

It's not bashing for the sake of bashing.

Edited January 8, 2017 by jalebi_bhai

[Ultimate_Game]

Put another way, has any other country's fortunes dipped so alarmingly in the neutral umpires and ball tampering crackdown era? I don't think so. It's similar to the likes of Miandad who were never given LBW at home and actually were given out LBW more often away on bouncy pitches in Aus and Eng when it should be the other way round. Sometimes numbers do tell a story and in case of the "bowling paavarhouse" it's getting increasingly clear what happened.

[MechEng]

Interesting cricinfo article, I'll ask Rob Moody if he has the footage of Chris Pringle's 7-52, want to see how much reverse he got.

[BeautifulGame]

Just curious.If bottle capping to get reverse was so easy in that series , why could Pringle and co couldn't do it in the second innings and win that test.

[MechEng]

4 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

 

Just curious.If bottle capping to get reverse was so easy in that series , why could Pringle and co couldn't do it in the second innings and win that test.

He got 4 wickets in the second innings and ended with 11 wickets in that test. It's obvious that Pak batsmen became aware after 1st innings that NZ are doing it as well.

[BeautifulGame]

He got 4 wickets in the second innings and ended with 11 wickets in that test. It's obvious that Pak batsmen became aware after 1st innings that NZ are doing it as well.

Yeah but conceded 300 in the second innings and lost the test.If it is as effective as he claimed why couldn't he bundle them out again cheaply .

It's just odd

[MechEng]

15 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

 

Yeah but conceded 300 in the second innings and lost the test.If it is as effective as he claimed why couldn't he bundle them out again cheaply .

It's just odd

Chris Pringle was a medium pacer and facing reverse swing at medium pace is similar to facing a googly/doosra/carrom ball. In 1st innings Pak batters weren't expecting NZ to get reverse swing and in 2nd innings they played relatively cautiously hence putting up a good score.

[Ultimate_Game]

5 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

 

Just curious.If bottle capping to get reverse was so easy in that series , why could Pringle and co couldn't do it in the second innings and win that test.

Coz kiwis were still amateur at that stuff but even in his first try Chris Pringle managed 11 wkts in the match!!! Imagine if he had been in the Pak setup learning "secrets of the trad" from masters of "reverse swing" what all he could have accomplished.

 

There's a reason every hyped up bowler produced over the last 15 years or so has failed at intl level whereas in the old days similar bowlers would've ended up taking loads of wkts.