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SK_IH

The no.4 conundrum

No.4 batsman for India in ODIs?  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. No.4 batsman for India in ODIs?



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No.4 is a pivotal role in ODI lineup,sort of a mid runner in a relay race who takes the baton from the top 3 and passes the baton to so called finishers(i hate this term) to finish the game.In some ways no.4 has to be a player with a finisher mentality himself but he has to be well versed in playing dual role of consolidating  and finishing.

 

Yuvi played the role of no.4 really well for half decade circa 2005-2011 but post that no number 4 has been able to establish himself.Though Pandya batted at no.4 in last 2 ODIs but in the current set up there are lots of players who are vying for that no.4 slot:

 

  • Hardik Pandya : He has done a great job in last 2 odis. In the modern ODI setup he seems an ideal no.4 to me as he has shown the ability to take singles according to situation and sixes against spinners are never far away.That he isnt a slogger has been on display in the last 6 months or so and to me he has certainly fortified his credentials to be a regular no.4.But I believe if he is to be the regular no.4,there has to be inclusion of one more more power player in the lineup.

 

  • Manish Pandey : His demotion in the last 2 odis must have given him signals that the team management has not been impressed with him.But Pandey to me is someone who needs to time to build up his innings and I dont think he is someone who can be very successful in lower order.He plays all his cricket for KKR at top order and thats where he has been successful as well.So, he is another one who at the moment is playing at a position where he is being disadvantaged and he has himself to blame for that as he failed continuously against NZ last year and then in the 1st ODIs this series.But personally I believe he is someone who needs to be backed,that innings at Sydney always come to mind where he played an ideal innings for a big chase.

 

  • Jadhav : Very good player,always likes to aggressive ,sometimes unnecessarily aggressive.What I observed even yesterday about him,he has these pet shots which he plays whether its cut or sweep.I was very disappointed the way he played against Zampa , he got into bad positions and was premeditating too much.Not one of the top contenders for me for sure.

 

  • Dhoni: The favorite of many on this forum.He is someone who in many fans thinking is the ideal no.4 at the present with the way he bats these days.The way he takes his own sweet time before getting into groove.Somehow I believe he is good at the position he has scored runs at no.5  recently ,though I was hoping he is sent earlier than when he came in because I wanted to see how he reacts to the situation,his modus operandi etc.There were many who believed he would have taken RRR quite up and made the situation even more difficult.Sadly,even though  am his fan I agree with the said notion,because we can only presume what he would have done and too much tuk tuking is exactly what he has done in recent past when there has been  a huge target to chase.But even if he is given a chance at no.4 ,its not a bad option to try but he needs to be tested in situation like there was one yesterday.

 

  • KL Rahul: Only few bright minds in the team management think Rahul can be a no.4/middle order option,.I ll only hope,this guy's career is not ruined in the process.

 

  • Then ,we can throw in a curve ball in Krunal Pandya: I truly believe this guy is a very good batsman,who can play according to situation,street smart and also has the ability to play big shots when needed.Last year I believe he was playing at no.3 for Baroda,which clearly shows he is primarily batsman,who has the ability to build up an innings.

 

The batting order should be set, keeping in mind that when the situation of 60 runs of 36 balls comes,there should be a player left who is adept at taking side home from that situation.Exhausting all players capable of playing at good pace is also not a bright idea.

 

Edited by SK_IH

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I think the time has come for kohli to move to no. 4.

Again Rahul can bat at no.3.  

Kohli will be able to play according to the demand of the game much better than others.  On the other hand Rahul is a solid player who can handle pace pretty well since he is opening in test and a natural opener.  Rahul can easily maintain the strike rate around 100.  Dhawan and Rohit will open of course.

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1 hour ago, tweaker said:

Dhoni

 

As we know Dhoni has lost his hitting abilities,it is best to use him at no 4.

 

He will hold the 1 side up & Kohli, Pandya, Pandey , Jadhav can play around him.

 

Pandya should be played at no 6/7 position as he has the ability to use the long handle well.

Kohli at 3 and dhoni at 4. It will hurt our momentum. You need someone like Pandya at 4 who can take risk and keep the momentum. Dhoni only works when you have a collapse and he can stick around but even then he needs another aggressive partner like it happened in the first game.

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24 minutes ago, WC2011INDIA said:

Nowadays, Dhoni is good at #4 only when the top order is gone and we are batting first. 

 

He is good only when u r target is below 250. Whether batting first or 2nd.  English wickets where 300 plus is easily achievable dhoni has nothing to contribute.

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KL Rahul

 

He can hit the big sixes with ease ..... we don't have anyone other than Pandya who can do that in the middle-order ..... and this ability is needed in high scoring matches.

 

He can play and hit genuine pacers.

 

He can play spinners after getting set

 

His potential ceiling is higher than the other options.

 

Just needs to improve his strike rotation.

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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43 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Has to be KL for me, just give him a long rope rather wasting it on rahane 

Dhoni shud nt bat anywere apart from 5 

 

15 minutes ago, express bowling said:

KL Rahul

 

He can hit the big sixes with ease ..... we don't have anyone other than Pandya who can do that in the middle-order ..... and this ability is needed in high scoring matches.

 

He can play and hit genuine pacers.

 

He can play spinners after getting set

 

His potential ceiling is higher than the other option.

 

Just needs to improve his strike rotation.

 

 

if that was the case or if Kohli was serious about making him a middle order option,he would have given him the preference.The way he is being treated is very unfair

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2 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

 

if that was the case or if Kohli was serious about making him a middle order option,he would have given him the preference.The way he is being treated is very unfair

Look he failed in SL, pandey scored runs and had made that brilliant 100 in aus . Also pandey was among CT squad before getting injured

Pandey was ahead, Kohli backed rahul n he failed so naturaly it wud have been unfair to pandey

But looking at other side the chances given to rahul was less so he deserves a fair amount of chances . 

 

He is one the best player, doubt who n how many are better then him

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9 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Look he failed in SL, pandey scored runs and had made that brilliant 100 in aus . Also pandey was among CT squad before getting injured

Pandey was ahead, Kohli backed rahul n he failed so naturaly it wud have been unfair to pandey

But looking at other side the chances given to rahul was less so he deserves a fair amount of chances . 

 

He is one the best player, doubt who n how many are better then him

but now i feel how pandey is being pushed down the order,its unfair on him as well, he deserves a longer run at 4 if he is getting preference

one way or another,there is no consistency in whats going on

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I feel management knows that Rahul isn't a long term option because of the frequent injuries, so they are trying other options at #4. He can be our back up opener, but then that means most of the time he will be on bench. 

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The one thing I'm happy about is that the team management has finally, albeit belatedly, become cognizant of the fact that we need high SR players at number 4,5,6 & 7, hence why the Pandya promotion (plus his good form). 

3 hours ago, tweaker said:

Dhoni

 

As we know Dhoni has lost his hitting abilities,it is best to use him at no 4.

 

He will hold the 1 side up & Kohli, Pandya, Pandey , Jadhav can play around him.

 

Pandya should be played at no 6/7 position as he has the ability to use the long handle well.

This is probably the best solution atm. MS is done as an elite-level match finisher but he can still add value as a consolidator. He still has the resilience but lacks the explosiveness. Number 4 should be his position followed by Pandey, Jadhav and Pandya. Pandya can be promoted as and when needed.

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4 hours ago, SK_IH said:

but now i feel how pandey is being pushed down the order,its unfair on him as well, he deserves a longer run at 4 if he is getting preference

one way or another,there is no consistency in whats going on

Problem is we cannot have both Kohli and Panday at 3-4 or even Dhoni at 4.  They are all similar type of batsmen.  There is a reason they are sending Pandya at 4, so, up the momentum in middle overs when you only have 4 fielders outside the circle.

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10 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Problem is we cannot have both Kohli and Panday at 3-4 or even Dhoni at 4.  They are all similar type of batsmen.  There is a reason they are sending Pandya at 4, so, up the momentum in middle overs when you only have 4 fielders outside the circle.

i like pandya at 4 ,no problem with that.but i would like to see another player capable of hitting sixes in the lower order  

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1 minute ago, Tibarn said:

Pandya looks somewhat iffy against fast bowling. He smashes the spinners but seems to get a little bogged down when the pacers are there. 

Out of the middle order, he looks the most assured. Yeah he doesnt decimate the fast bowlers as he does the spinners. But he is capable and the best of the bunch to see out and take singles and twos against fast bowlers in the middle overs. Jadhav was all at sea against Cummins. And less said about Dhoni the better.

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4 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

Pandya looks somewhat iffy against fast bowling. He smashes the spinners but seems to get a little bogged down when the pacers are there. 

it was intentional form him to not take risk against pacers.  He will only get better as he plays genuine pacers more. Very few Indian batsmen can just come to international cricket and hit genuine fast bowlers.  They all take time to get accustomed. They barely face high class fast bowling in domestic cricket.

Edited by rkt.india

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2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

yes. need someone else at 6. krunal might be the answer

 

1. Dhawan -- Quick starter, high average, good SR

2. Rohit -- High average, can hit big 6s

3. Kohli -- High average, good SR,  dependable, test-quality batsman 

4. Rahul -- Can hit big 6s,  test-quality batsman 

5. Hardik -- Can hit big 6s,  high SR batter,  good average, pacer

6. Dhoni --  Stabilizes team during collapse, high average, slow batter     /  Pant -- Can hit big 6s, high SR batter

7. Krunal -- Potentially .... can hit big 6s, high SR batter, spinner

 

covers all the bases

Edited by express bowling

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5 hours ago, express bowling said:

KL Rahul

 

He can hit the big sixes with ease ..... we don't have anyone other than Pandya who can do that in the middle-order ..... and this ability is needed in high scoring matches.

 

He can play and hit genuine pacers.

 

He can play spinners after getting set

 

His potential ceiling is higher than the other options.

 

Just needs to improve his strike rotation.

 

 

   When i visualize the future scenario these are some of the things that will happen : 

    1. Every team will have atleast 1  wrist spinner in their attack.

    2. Most teams will have 2 spinners in their attack ( Atleast 15 overs would be bowled spinners).

    3. Most teams will try to avoid spinners against Pandya unless the spinner is quite good & they will bring in their pace bowlers         when he is in.     

    Now Pandya should be one of the guys who will come at 4 or 5 . 

    When 2nd wicket falls , majority of spin quota is yet to be used , Pandya should be in , in other cases Pandya should come in at        5.

    Since its a given that when Pandya is in , Opposition will bring pacemen , the other batter should be one who has the ability to play well  against pacers and can hit boundaries. 

    THIS MUST BE THE CONSIDERATION OF THINK TANK when selecting your no.4 . As we have seen Pandya is not able to hit boundaries in the way he hits spinners hence very crucial , the other batter is one who can take boundaries of pacers.

With that  in mind i can think only 3 guys as of now -  KL , Pandey , Iyer in that order of preference.

KL should be the first choice due to: -   

Plays pacers very well since he is an opener. Equally good against spinners . Cannot be tied down easily as he can use both paddle sweep as well reverse sweep + Big hits down the ground and over the infield. 

Pandya - looks better than Kedar against pace and also less risky . Can play spin too.

Jadhav -  Age, Fielding , more risky approach, suspect against good pace attack -  so may not be a good option for long term. But can be good against spin.

Iyer -  Hammers spinners  , may not be very good against pacers as of now but should be on the radar. I think we should invest on him.

If we analyse the chances of improvement is very high for KL & Iyer  while Kedar and Pandey  might have reached their peak in terms of improvement . 

 

Problem of selecting KL, IYER & Pandey is  that none of these 3 bowl. That really upsets team balance . If any of these 3 can bowl 3-4 overs  that could be terrific.

I am not considering Pant at this position. I am thinking of opening slot or no.6 for him.

 

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4 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

   When i visualize the future scenario these are some of the things that will happen : 

    1. Every team will have atleast 1  wrist spinner in their attack.

    2. Most teams will have 2 spinners in their attack ( Atleast 15 overs would be bowled spinners).

    3. Most teams will try to avoid spinners against Pandya unless the spinner is quite good & they will bring in their pace bowlers         when he is in.     

    Now Pandya should be one of the guys who will come at 4 or 5 . 

    When 2nd wicket falls , majority of spin quota is yet to be used , Pandya should be in , in other cases Pandya should come in at        5.

    Since its a given that when Pandya is in , Opposition will bring pacemen , the other batter should be one who has the ability to play well  against pacers and can hit boundaries. 

    THIS MUST BE THE CONSIDERATION OF THINK TANK when selecting your no.4 . As we have seen Pandya is not able to hit boundaries in the way he hits spinners hence very crucial , the other batter is one who can take boundaries of pacers.

With that  in mind i can think only 3 guys as of now -  KL , Pandey , Iyer in that order of preference.

KL should be the first choice due to: -   

Plays pacers very well since he is an opener. Equally good against spinners . Cannot be tied down easily as he can use both paddle sweep as well reverse sweep + Big hits down the ground and over the infield. 

Pandya - looks better than Kedar against pace and also less risky . Can play spin too.

Jadhav -  Age, Fielding , more risky approach, suspect against good pace attack -  so may not be a good option for long term. But can be good against spin.

Iyer -  Hammers spinners  , may not be very good against pacers as of now but should be on the radar. I think we should invest on him.

If we analyse the chances of improvement is very high for KL & Iyer  while Kedar and Pandey  might have reached their peak in terms of improvement . 

 

Problem of selecting KL, IYER & Pandey is  that none of these 3 bowl. That really upsets team balance . If any of these 3 can bowl 3-4 overs  that could be terrific.

I am not considering Pant at this position. I am thinking of opening slot or no.6 for him.

 

    And i am one of the voteries for KL in that 29.17%

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10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

1. Dhawan -- Quick starter, high average, good SR

2. Rohit -- High average, can hit big 6s

3. Kohli -- High average, good SR,  dependable, test-quality batsman 

4. Rahul -- Can hit big 6s,  test-quality batsman 

5. Hardik -- Can hit big 6s,  high SR batter,  good average, pacer

6. Dhoni --  Stabilizes team during collapse, high average, slow batter     /  Pant -- Can hit big 6s, high SR batter

7. Krunal -- Potentially, can hit big 6s, high SR batter, spinner

 

covers all the bases

   Expressji ,   tweaking it a bit 

   6.  Pant .

   7.  Krunal / W Sundar  -   Do not count out this Kid .

   But i have lowered my expectation . This will happen post WC 19  

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, express bowling said:

KL Rahul

 

He can hit the big sixes with ease ..... we don't have anyone other than Pandya who can do that in the middle-order ..... and this ability is needed in high scoring matches.

 

He can play and hit genuine pacers.

 

He can play spinners after getting set

 

His potential ceiling is higher than the other options.

 

Just needs to improve his strike rotation.

 

 

... if he can stay on the field.  With him, it is a very important consideration.

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Dhoni at no.4 or 5 is terrible suggestion.

Let's analyse strengths nd weaknesses of dhoni.

Strengths:

1)Hangs around. Takes a few singles and few boundaries with lots of dots.

2)Difficult to get him out when he plays tuk tuk.

3)Ability to absorb pressure.

4) Very calculative.

 

Weaknesses:

 Dot balls. Strike Rate. Non willingness to take risks for preserving his average. Pretty much useless in high scoring games. Very calculative.

 

Position 4:  Many here have wrong notion of the role of no. 4. Yes, batsmen at 4 plays calculative cricket but he does so while maintaining at least run a ball I.e. 100 SR. The batsman at  no 4 has to rotate strike constantly; play less dot balls. And sometimes even play a bit more aggressively to impart momentum especially if you have got a slow and steady start.

Is it the way dhoni bats nowadays? 

Absolutely not. He lingers at low SR for most part of his innings and covers up later and only about just most of the times. As such he is going to suck momentum of middle overs.

 

 

Position no. 5 :  This is disastrous position for dhoni. Even more so than no 4. The batsman at this position comes in invariably (all being normal i.e. no collapse)  when one needs to go all guns blazing or accelerate without any exception from the get go with significant amount of overs remaining ranging from 0 to 15. Dhoni will start his customary tuk tuk and waste many crucial overs because he cannot take off straightaway if at all that is. 

If there is one position where you require a batsman( not a slogger) with consistent hitting ability throughout his innings, its this. 

 

Position no. 6 : This position requires a batsman who can slog a bit. Need not necessarily be a sensible batsman but if you find one its great especially if you have collapse you got this covered. This is where dhoni can be used. Dhoni definitely can slog a few wildly.The only thing is he won't stay for long. But at this position most of the times batsman is left with just overs. Besides he will be batting with no.4, 5 or 7 batsman who can accelerate. Keep some good striker of the ball at 7 and you have one more high SR batsman around him. 

 

At the end of the day, ideal place for dhoni is out of the team. But at no. 6 we can hide him successfully.

 

 

 

 

@SK_IH You mentioned dhoni has scored runs at 5 recently which is wrong deendingon your definition of recent. He has been playing at 6 from SL series.

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1 hour ago, prudent_kreeda said:

   Expressji ,   tweaking it a bit 

   6.  Pant .

   7.  Krunal / W Sundar  -   Do not count out this Kid .

   But i have lowered my expectation . This will happen post WC 19 

 

 

prudent ji  .... I have kept Pant at  6  as a  ' / ' option but,  as you said, little chance of it happening before WC 19. 

 

Sundar has started to impress for sure.  Good temperament too.  Would like to check his hitting ability against quicks.

 

We need to find another  batting all-rounder with six hitting ability ASAP .... to lend balance to the team.

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See the most I am concerned abt in this lot is Kl Rahul..
He is a rare talent and he can emulate Kohli for us but sadly
he is wasted right now..He is too good batsmen to leave out 
Play him at 4 or 5 or even open with him but he just cant be left out..

Well idealy Kohli should bat at 4 but its also not a good idea coz that guy is a freak at no 3 
and more over he gets the better its for team..

Rohit was a middle order batsmen and him at 4 with all those big shots wd hv solved the problem
but now he cant go back to middle order after so much success.

Dhawan complements rohit well with aggresive shots and being a left hander he will open till
his form is intact..

So now where will Rahul bat ..Hmm seeing his recent struggles against spin specialy at the start of his innings ,
No. 4 hmm still I am not sure but somehow you hv to play him ..So play him at 5 or open for few matches to give
him confidence but he should play...

Now no. 4 I guess If raina maintains his fitness he with all his experince and a left hander is probably ideal.
He will not eat bowls and at 4 he is away from the fast bowlers as well...Now raina at 4 , rahul at 5 but sadly dhoni
cant play at 6 or 7 ...Someone like pant will be much much better there...Dhoni is only good for no. 4 but it will break the momentum ..

rahul with all those reverse sweeps and paddles will be grt finisher at 5..

Rohit/Dhwan/Kohli/Raina/Rahul/Pant/Pandya/Bhuvi/Kuldeep/Bumrah/Chahal

Now Whose going to bet that abv team wd hv white washed ausie and srilanka as well..

It has Right/  left combination right till bottom..Also two wrist spinners in english conditions might not be probable
So we need to develop a third seemed, idealy a left armer who could bat a bit or mohammad shami.. 

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Am surprised at the love for KLR. Great talent, no doubt.

 

But, he is like the perennial best man who everyone hopes will find the perfect maiden soon, but as soon as he does, he slips and falls at the altar and has to start all over again. 

 

Until he can stay healthy for an extended period, there is no point in holding a place for him. 

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On 29/09/2017 at 2:30 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Has to be KL for me, just give him a long rope rather wasting it on rahane 

Dhoni shud nt bat anywere apart from 5 

Dhoni should not be in team anymore or else we will always have situation like wc 15, ct 17.He is doing the same mistake which he felt seniors like gambhir,Sehwag  did obstructing a new comer progress. The biggest concern is not even that but we always have this confusion that who to send on what position because of Dhoni's complete loss finishing touch in more than 6 run rate chase, As other mentioned he is only good for less than 6 run chase and that too in only bilateral and against weaker opposition.He can still consolidate but he can't win u the matches on his own which is very imperative in modern day cricket for his crucial position. I know it's harsh for some of his hard-core fan and quite justifiable but realistically we shall be moving forward or else we should be ready to sacrifice some more crucial matches. Now it's up to selector whom they want to sacrifice individual glory or nation pride.

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Dhoni is the singular reason why India's batting looks unsettled even though there is an abundance of talent. Dhoni would still hit the occasional boundaries and sixes to make his fans cream themselves but it's easy to see that his abilities have suffered, irrevocably. He cannot hit out at a sustained rate for any meaningful length of overs. Time to put him to pasture was 2 years ago.

 

With Dhoni gone, Rahul would become doubly important for India's ODI XI. Why? Because, along with Kohli himself, he'd be the only batsman in the team to lend a touch of solidity WITHOUT compromising on strike power. This is the balance that even the current England's ODI team lacks. And this is the balance that WC conquering Australian ODI XIs in 2000s did NOT lack.

 

Eventually, I'd want the Indian XI to look something like this come 2019.

 

Dhawan

Rohit

Kohli

Rahul

Pant

Krunal

Hardik

Vijay Shankar/Kuldeep/Chahal

Bhuvneshwar

Shami

Bumrah

 

Edited by sarchasm

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2 hours ago, raki05 said:

Dhoni should not be in team anymore or else we will always have situation like wc 15, ct 17.He is doing the same mistake which he felt seniors like gambhir,Sehwag  did obstructing a new comer progress. The biggest concern is not even that but we always have this confusion that who to send on what position because of Dhoni's complete loss finishing touch in more than 6 run rate chase, As other mentioned he is only good for less than 6 run chase and that too in only bilateral and against weaker opposition.He can still consolidate but he can't win u the matches on his own which is very imperative in modern day cricket for his crucial position. I know it's harsh for some of his hard-core fan and quite justifiable but realistically we shall be moving forward or else we should be ready to sacrifice some more crucial matches. Now it's up to selector whom they want to sacrifice individual glory or nation pride.

No those guys were absolute liabilities in the team on field which dhoni is not, he is sharp behind stumps 

Dhoni biggest problem was lack of contribution as their runs dried up they didnt contribute anywere

Dhoni contributes to captaincy, keeping, winning u games around 250 total , guiding youngster.  I dnt think he is a match winner anymore but he is a good utility player 

 

If a youngster is good enough he ll take a place, there are enough vacant places 

 

Stop crying this victim card theory . 

 

I aint no one hardcore fan , im a fan but aint a blind one ........i just look what a player offers to the team and dhoni is certainely of the biggest problem of this team right.  If youngsters are so good no.4 and 6 are available ........and in reality no yooungsters has performed in way that just makes impossible for anyone to ignore. 

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3 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

No those guys were absolute liabilities in the team on field which dhoni is not, he is sharp behind stumps 

Dhoni biggest problem was lack of contribution as their runs dried up they didnt contribute anywere

Dhoni contributes to captaincy, keeping, winning u games around 250 total , guiding youngster.  I dnt think he is a match winner anymore but he is a good utility player 

 

If a youngster is good enough he ll take a place, there are enough vacant places 

 

Stop crying this victim card theory . 

 

I aint no one hardcore fan , im a fan but aint a blind one ........i just look what a player offers to the team and dhoni is certainely of the biggest problem of this team right.  If youngsters are so good no.4 and 6 are available ........and in reality no yooungsters has performed in way that just makes impossible for anyone to ignore. 

First of all don't get offended as I was also his fan. Now coming to the topic how can you blame youngster who are not yet sure of their position as we have  to accommodate dhoni in between according to situation. Also contributing as captain should not be criteria of selection and as far as keeping is concerned that's his primary role and it is bau  for him and least requirement .When we talk about 250 chases he is not winning them alone even last time when we chases 250 in crisis situation Bhuvi outscored him. So please don't give excuse as contributing in captaincy, we need just one captain and if Virar is not good enough he should be replaced with someone more suitable. But dont cry hypothetical stuff which is least require for winning. Also any youngsters need thorough chance to establish himself. What I can see he is hindering a potential talent  pant who should have been groomed after ct 17. 

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2 hours ago, raki05 said:

First of all don't get offended as I was also his fan. Now coming to the topic how can you blame youngster who are not yet sure of their position as we have  to accommodate dhoni in between according to situation. Also contributing as captain should not be criteria of selection and as far as keeping is concerned that's his primary role and it is bau  for him and least requirement .When we talk about 250 chases he is not winning them alone even last time when we chases 250 in crisis situation Bhuvi outscored him. So please don't give excuse as contributing in captaincy, we need just one captain and if Virar is not good enough he should be replaced with someone more suitable. But dont cry hypothetical stuff which is least require for winning. Also any youngsters need thorough chance to establish himself. What I can see he is hindering a potential talent  pant who should have been groomed after ct 17. 

chances are grabbed not begged

Now isnt pandey, rahul jadhav getting chances. Who stopped pant from scoring Runs in SA, pandey did and got back to the team . 

Dhoni is not accomodated, he hasnt done anything to be dropped. 

Captaincy isnt the only criteria its one of his many contribution .............

There is only one captain but captains do take others players help, if u have one the most brilliant odi captain at ur help who wnt use it . Didnt smith use dhoni in IPL. 

 

M not against any youngster getting a chance, specially pant i think he is good enough to play as batsman but whatever chances he is getting he has to make use of it be it duleep, A-series or whatever. 

 

Dinesh karthik hindered pant before dhoni, now if team mngmt gave karthik a chance before pant and dropped him from next series may be they feel he is not ready. 

 

Didnt MSK prasad say they are looking to progress Pant through t20s , may be they have diff plan for him 

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We need to make use of Pandya's ability to hit sixes at will against the spinners. But playing him at 4 will only increase his workload and seeing he's the only power hitter down the order, it will be unfair on other players who are not used to that role. For me, he's best to bat at #5.

4 will go to either KL Rahul or Manish Pandey.

If only Manish could bat at high strike rates, he could've been easily tried at 6. For now, I would play him ahead of KL considering the current form and would stick to the same top 4 with out constant chops or change in batting orders at least for 15-20 matches. 

As for KLR goes, he's someone special who have the ability to match even Kohli. So I'd rather see him warm the bench than waste his talent on #5 or #6 positions. I think he needs to wait a little longer until a spot opens up in top 4.

That leaves us at #6 spot opened, with no potential candidates to fill. I think this where our management failed spectacularly in the last couple of years, giving too much emphasis on just the top order. For me, #4 and #6 are the most important positions for a team to succeed. 

For now this will be my middle order,

Pandey at 4

Pandya (batting-allrounder)

Kedhar / Krunal (batting-allrounder)

Pant (W)

Edited by Lannister

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7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

chances are grabbed not begged

Now isnt pandey, rahul jadhav getting chances. Who stopped pant from scoring Runs in SA, pandey did and got back to the team . 

Dhoni is not accomodated, he hasnt done anything to be dropped. 

Captaincy isnt the only criteria its one of his many contribution .............

There is only one captain but captains do take others players help, if u have one the most brilliant odi captain at ur help who wnt use it . Didnt smith use dhoni in IPL. 

 

M not against any youngster getting a chance, specially pant i think he is good enough to play as batsman but whatever chances he is getting he has to make use of it be it duleep, A-series or whatever. 

 

Dinesh karthik hindered pant before dhoni, now if team mngmt gave karthik a chance before pant and dropped him from next series may be they feel he is not ready. 

 

Didnt MSK prasad say they are looking to progress Pant through t20s , may be they have diff plan for him 

How did Dinesh Karthik hinder Pant when the fact was Karthik was playing as a batsman in the same team as Dhoni when he was selected recently

 

but agreed with the context though Dinesh Karthik hinders everyone when he gets selected again and again

Edited by maniac

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8 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

chances are grabbed not begged

Now isnt pandey, rahul jadhav getting chances. Who stopped pant from scoring Runs in SA, pandey did and got back to the team . 

Dhoni is not accomodated, he hasnt done anything to be dropped. 

Captaincy isnt the only criteria its one of his many contribution .............

There is only one captain but captains do take others players help, if u have one the most brilliant odi captain at ur help who wnt use it . Didnt smith use dhoni in IPL. 

 

M not against any youngster getting a chance, specially pant i think he is good enough to play as batsman but whatever chances he is getting he has to make use of it be it duleep, A-series or whatever. 

 

Dinesh karthik hindered pant before dhoni, now if team mngmt gave karthik a chance before pant and dropped him from next series may be they feel he is not ready. 

 

Didnt MSK prasad say they are looking to progress Pant through t20s , may be they have diff plan for him 

I think we are on the same page. It's just that i feel its the best time to groom a youngster keeper whom we are looking as an future and this 2 year after ct17 is best time to do so. I don't see a reason why should dhoni be playing each and every meaningless series atleast against weaker opposition like sri snd wi we could have tried pant,as there is no better learning experience than plsying against international team, even Pandya turned in to different beast by being  in the team for one year.

Edited by raki05

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4 hours ago, maniac said:

How did Dinesh Karthik hinder Pant when the fact was Karthik was playing as a batsman in the same team as Dhoni when he was selected recently

 

but agreed with the context though Dinesh Karthik hinders everyone when he gets selected again and again

Pant was good enough to play as batsman and dhoni has done nothing to be dropped. Just becoz someone is at wrong side u cant drop him. M no fan of jadhav but still wud say he hasnt done bad to be dropped. 

 

N if pant n dhoni are their, most will make dhoni keep as he is a better keeper and helps bowlers better due his experience. 

2 hours ago, raki05 said:

I think we are on the same page. It's just that i feel its the best time to groom a youngster keeper whom we are looking as an future and this 2 year after ct17 is best time to do so. I don't see a reason why should dhoni be playing each and every meaningless series atleast against weaker opposition like sri snd wi we could have tried pant,as there is no better learning experience than plsying against international team, even Pandya turned in to different beast by being  in the team for one year.

M all up for grooming, infact i was against dropping pant but in reality selectors wont work in ICF demands . Selection is not in pant's hand what he shud do is score whenever given a chance. Say watever the reality is his Avg Sa-A tour didnt help his case and had he scored heavily it wud have become more difficult for selectors to ignore. Look at sundar whenever he gets a chance he is performing. 

IF dhoni is in the scheme of 2019 he has play a lot coz he has to work on his game, at his age sitting at bench doesnt help. 

M really hoping pant plays but doesnt mean dhoni shud be dropped who atleast is contributing, ill rather kick rahane who is of no use. 

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6 hours ago, RAZPOR said:

There is no conundrum just play rahul regularly there for 20 games ,he will come good .He has hardly played 2 games together at no. 4.

Even if selected, will he really be able to play regularly for 20 matches?  Hopefully he is healthy now and they pick him for the next series, and then hope he's able to stay injury-free for 20+ matches.  

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8 minutes ago, Brainfade said:

Even if selected, will he really be able to play regularly for 20 matches?  Hopefully he is healthy now and they pick him for the next series, and then hope he's able to stay injury-free for 20+ matches.  

what ???

He is in the squad serving drinks for last 5 matches.....:giggle:

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