Team India in 4th innings under Captain Kohli

[Gollum]

We have lost 5 matches. That Pune test was lost after our 1st innings itself because of the nature of the pitch. Apart from that we have lost 4 matches, 2 against SA and 1 each against Sri Lanka and England. All 4th innings surrenders chasing low to moderate totals. How bad is this team in 4th innings run chase? *ing mental midgets. Do they even accept they have a problem? Even Kohli hasn't been his usual self in these situations, hasn't been able to translate his ODI chasing prowess to red ball cricket.

 

1. India vs Sri Lanka, Galle 2015

Target 176 runs with over 2 days remaining (this is important because day 3 and day 4 pitch doesn't show too much misbehavior/wear&tear unlike day 5...it was a good pitch to bat on still as exhibited by Chandi and co)

India 112 a.o, 49.5 overs

Herath 7fer

GALLE

 

2. India vs South Africa, Cape Town 2018

Target 208 runs , with 5 sessions remaining...entire day 3 was washed off so effectively we collapsed on a day 3 pitch.

India 135 a.o, 42.4 overs

Philander 6fer

CAPE TOWN

 

3. India vs South Africa, Centurion 2018

Target 287 runs, 4 sessions remaining..loss is excusable because pitch was playing tricks but where was the fight?

India 151 a.o, 50.2 overs

Ngidi 6fer

CENTURION

 

4. India vs England, Edgbaston 2018

Target 194, 7 sessions remaining...pitch had no demons, easy peasy run chase

India 162 a.o, 54.2 overs

Anderson, Broad and Stokes all wrecked us

EDGBASTON

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Suffice to say we won't be winning matches in SENA countries batting 2nd? No matter how well the bowlers bowl, unlike in India we won't be dishing out innings defeats or chasing puny sub 100 targets. We will have to chase >150 runs to win matches in these places. I have more confidence in our bowlers defending a low total than our batters chasing one. Will be interesting to see what we do at the toss moving  forward. Kohli here at the toss said he preferred to bowl 1st. 6 months ago, he bravely opted to bat 1st on a mamba in Jo'berg and reaped rewards. May be that is the way to go....even if Poms lay out a greentop bat 1st. Lord's 2014 pitch was a well maintained lawn, we won after being inserted to bat by Cook. Time to repeat that strategy perhaps? 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Gollum

[Dil Dil India]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

We have lost 5 matches. That Pune test was lost after our 1st innings itself because of the nature of the pitch. Apart from that we have lost 4 matches, 2 against SA and 1 each against Sri Lanka and England. All 4th innings surrenders chasing low to moderate totals. How bad is this team in 4th innings run chase? *ing mental midgets. Do they even accept they have a problem? Even Kohli hasn't been his usual self in these situations, hasn't been able to translate his ODI chasing prowess to red ball cricket.

 

1. India vs Sri Lanka, Galle 2015

Target 176 runs with over 2 days remaining (this is important because day 3 and day 4 pitch doesn't show too much misbehavior/wear&tear unlike day 5...it was a good pitch to bat on still as exhibited by Chandi and co)

India 112 a.o, 49.5 overs

Herath 7fer

GALLE

 

2. India vs South Africa, Cape Town 2018

Target 208 runs , with 5 sessions remaining...entire day 3 was washed off so effectively we collapsed on a day 3 pitch.

India 135 a.o, 42.4 overs

Philander 6fer

CAPE TOWN

 

3. India vs South Africa, Centurion 2018

Target 287 runs, 4 sessions remaining..loss is excusable because pitch was playing tricks but where was the fight?

India 151 a.o, 50.2 overs

Ngidi 6fer

CENTURION

 

4. India vs England, Edgbaston 2018

Target 194, 7 sessions remaining...pitch had no demons, easy peasy run chase

India 162 a.o, 54.2 overs

Anderson, Broad and Stokes all wrecked us

EDGBASTON

 

Interesting numbers and you make good points. However, I do think a target of about 200 is usually good enough for the home side. I'm sure the numbers will confirm that visiting teams all over lose when faced with a target of around 200 batting last, far more often than not.

 

That said, I feel the first test vs SA and this one were winnable. Chokejobs by us in both.

[Gollum]

More failures by us in England and Australia.

 

Look at the way Lankans are approaching the run chase here. Our batting unit just like always has an inflated reputation. Once again credit to Indian bowlers at home, who knows how many we would have lost in our home cycle if we had more 180+ targets? Every time we lost the toss at home (except Pune), more than batsmen the bowlers stepped up and ensured innings victories or manageable targets in the 1-100 range. 

 

Serious serious concern for us. Surely these Lankans and West Indians aren't better batting units than us. Kohli-Shastri can't hide behind excuses any longer, toss is important but can't harp over it if you can't chase down 150-250 totals in 4th innings. We don't even get close on most occasions, we meekly surrender. Last time we chased a total above 100 in SENA was in 2003, we couldn't chase 170 in Lanka 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Gollum

[lamellavig]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

More failures by us in England and Australia.

 

Look at the way Lankans are approaching the run chase here. Our batting unit just like always has an inflated reputation. Once again credit to Indian bowlers at home, who knows how many we would have lost in our home cycle if we had more 180+ targets? Every time we lost the toss at home (except Pune), more than batsmen the bowlers stepped up and ensured innings victories or manageable targets in the 1-100 range. 

 

Serious serious concern for us. Surely these Lankans and West Indians aren't better batting units than us. Kohli-Shastri can't hide behind excuses any longer, toss is important but can't harp over it if you can't chase down 150-250 totals in 4th innings. We don't even get close on most occasions, we meekly surrender. Last time we chased a total above 100 in SENA was in 2003, we couldn't chase 170 in Lanka 

As long as India choose the most experienced batting lineup possible, who gives a damn about batting skill and chasing under pressure. Sri Lanka have an inexperienced batting line up. Most Indians would rather lose than play with such a lineup. 

[R!TTER]

It's got little do with experience or inexperience, the fact is we don't play percentage cricket in relatively easy chases also our record against spinners in 4th innings post 2010/11 is pathetic! Playing youngsters won't magically win us 4th innings chases.

[ShoonyaSifar]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

More failures by us in England and Australia.

 

Look at the way Lankans are approaching the run chase here. Our batting unit just like always has an inflated reputation. Once again credit to Indian bowlers at home, who knows how many we would have lost in our home cycle if we had more 180+ targets? Every time we lost the toss at home (except Pune), more than batsmen the bowlers stepped up and ensured innings victories or manageable targets in the 1-100 range. 

 

Serious serious concern for us. Surely these Lankans and West Indians aren't better batting units than us. Kohli-Shastri can't hide behind excuses any longer, toss is important but can't harp over it if you can't chase down 150-250 totals in 4th innings. We don't even get close on most occasions, we meekly surrender. Last time we chased a total above 100 in SENA was in 2003, we couldn't chase 170 in Lanka 

If we start chasing 4th innings totals well away from home, this side will become a great Test side, perhaps the 3rd best Test unit in history. From your list alone, those tests vs SA and Eng, if we had won, could have meant a series win everywhere!

[philcric]

Yeah 4th innings chasing we are undoubtedly been very poor over the last 3-4 years. That's one aspect of our test cricket we need to get much better.

 

[zen]

Expecting Pant+Pandya combo to do relatively well esp. once they start playing per their full potential .... Shaw+Agarwal opening combo will be confident as well 

Edited February 23, 2019 by zen

[VT87]

That Edgbaston test we should’ve chased down it . But king kohli chocked tremendously. 

[Texan]

Our batsmen are mental midgets. They freeze in 4th innings chases. Cannot even chase middling totals. Even Lankan newcomers are better than us in 4th. 

[zen]

4 minutes ago, Texan said:

Our batsmen are mental midgets. They freeze in 4th innings chases. Cannot even chase middling totals. Even Lankan newcomers are better than us in 4th. 

New players are like puppies, who would be relatively more confident to take on the world (and have nothing to lose but everything to gain attitude) .... In Ind, we go after our youngsters when the team fails (and try to turn them in to fearful cricketers). Which is why I like the attitude of young cricketers such as Shaw, Agarwal, Pandya, Pant, Kuldeep and Bumrah 

[maniac]

7 hours ago, zen said:

New players are like puppies, who would be relatively more confident to take on the world (and have nothing to lose but everything to gain attitude) .... In Ind, we go after our youngsters when the team fails (and try to turn them in to fearful cricketers). Which is why I like the attitude of young cricketers such as Shaw, Agarwal, Pandya, Pant, Kuldeep and Bumrah 

Pandya played in 3 of the 4 games mentioned in the OP. Got 0 wickets in 2 of the games and did not bowl in one of the innings. Had we played a specialist bat in those games may be things would have been different.

Edited February 24, 2019 by maniac

[maniac]

Hardik Pandya In Edgbaston 0 wickets in first innings and did not bowl in the 2nd. 

 

0 wickets in centurion and 6 and 15 with the bat.

 

Now people will start saying he scored better than batsman a and b. That is not the point. If batsman gets out performed by a bowler, you replace the batsman with a more competent one.

doesnt justify a “fake allrounder” just for the heck of it.

 

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Good thread. I was wondering the same. India made a meal of so many short chases after seeing how SL comfortably chased in the 2nd test.

[vvvslaxman]

In the SA test Steyn also got injured they only had 3 fast bowlers.

[zen]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

Pandya played in 3 of the 4 games mentioned in the OP. Got 0 wickets in 2 of the games and did not bowl in one of the innings. Had we played a specialist bat in those games may be things would have been different.

It was the fake test batsman, along with some out of form batsmen, that was a let down. We could have easily played some better batsman in place of the struggling ones .... could not even leverage on a new guy's 93 and his effort in first test in Eng where he was the last man out fighting to take Ind to a victory .... and lost heavily in the 5th test in Eng with another batsman 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2019 by zen

[Adi BB]

For me the biggest disappointment was the edgbaston defeat, 194 should have been chased and it wasnt as if England were bowling great .Indian batsmen played badly as simple as that ,even pandya scoree 34 so there's no excuse for the others to not chip in .

Swann was surprised that England defended and won lol 

[Gollum]

After this thread was made, another 3 losses while chasing in 4th innings. 

 

India vs England, Rose Bowl 2018

Target 244 runs, 2 full days remaining

India 184 ao, 69.4 overs

Moeen Ali 4fer 

 

India vs England, Oval 2018

Target 464, 100 odd overs remaining

India 345 ao in 94.3 overs

Should have drawn this test easily going into final session with Pant and Rahul batting comfortably, stupid collapse on a patta 

 

India vs Australia, Perth 2018 (I didn't watch this match, going by scorecard)

Target 287 runs, 4.5 sessions remaining

India 140 ao, 56 overs

Where was the *ing fight?

 

Edited February 24, 2019 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Another point to note is that since the RSA tour Kohli has either choked or failed to turn up in these 4th innings chases. What worries me is that he is at the peak of his powers now, yet unable to have a more significant contribution in this kind of match situation, surely it has become a mental hurdle at this point? Because otherwise his funda in chasing totals isn't wrong, he plays percentage cricket better than most....hardly gets into passive stonewall mode like Sachin or OTT aggro like Sehwag.

 

These last 15 months or so he has been in very good test form, his line/length judgement, timing, confidence, shot selection, luck (understated but damn important) etc were firing on all cylinders. Not doubting his greatness but about time he rectifies this flaw, gives a panicky vibe in these chases based on what I have seen.