Pakistani Terror Conundrum. What is answer

[MechEng]

3 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I don't buy it. If we had the courage in the political scene, we would have had peace already just like how Russia made "peace" with Chechnya and Ukraine. And how Assad had barbecued the separatists. Moral consequence end result is 44 dead CRPF men and 4 more today. Does the enemy have that morals. If USA or China gives lectures about morals, we can always point to their morals and how we are following them in their uprightness.

All out war is not possible with a nuclear power like Pakistan. Chechenya terrorists had no nuclear weapons, US fights wars from the comfort of being far away and having high tech unmanned aerial vehicles. Our situation is much more complicated and needs very careful decision making, think of it as a game of chess or batting on a minefield against 3 world class spinners on day 5 pitch to save a test match.

[MechEng]

10 minutes ago, Gollum said:

You can't sugarcoat cowardice and indecisiveness. That has been our bane right throughout history. 

Sabr ka phal meetha hota hai, you'll know it later 

[LordPrabhzy]

3 minutes ago, MechEng said:

All out war is not possible with a nuclear power like Pakistan. Chechenya terrorists had no nuclear weapons, US fights wars from the comfort of being far away and having high tech unmanned aerial vehicles. Our situation is much more complicated and needs very careful decision making, think of it as a game of chess or batting on a minefield against 3 world class spinners on day 5 pitch to save a test match.

I dont understand why doesnt India have those drones US and UK use to take out targets from so high up. No need to send any boys or planes in. And Pakistan cant even prove it was India that did it because then they would admit to harbouring terror camps.

[MechEng]

Just now, LordPrabhzy said:

I dont understand why doesnt India have those drones US and UK use to take out targets from so high up. No need to send any boys or planes in. And Pakistan cant even prove it was India that did it because then they would admit to harbouring terror camps.

That's because IITians take 20-30 lac packages investment banking/consulting jobs after studying engineering 

[Real McCoy]

2 minutes ago, MechEng said:

All out war is not possible with a nuclear power like Pakistan. Chechenya terrorists had no nuclear weapons, US fights wars from the comfort of being far away and having high tech unmanned aerial vehicles. Our situation is much more complicated and needs very careful decision making, think of it as a game of chess or batting on a minefield against 3 world class spinners on day 5 pitch to save a test match.

I'm not talking about all out war. I'm talking about JK. These terrorists must either be slaughtered or run into hiding in Pak. And also keep a lid on other factors such as business boycotts, making this news widespread, and capturing the snakes in our own backyard. Truth be told, Pakistan has inferior grade nukes they may combust before taking off . Govt will still not underestimate them for our own good. But we need to be more proactive in other areas I talked about. Like I said, we have all the options on the table. We need to have some guts to make bolder choices.

[Real McCoy]

11 minutes ago, MechEng said:

All out war is not possible with a nuclear power like Pakistan. Chechenya terrorists had no nuclear weapons, US fights wars from the comfort of being far away and having high tech unmanned aerial vehicles. Our situation is much more complicated and needs very careful decision making, think of it as a game of chess or batting on a minefield against 3 world class spinners on day 5 pitch to save a test match.

If you are playing in a minefield, you still need to dance down the wicket and hit a six to keep the bowler honest. If the ball is not up to you after dancing down, you can block like Pujara. You can't just play from the backfoot like Rahane. And we all knew how that shaped up. Out LBW against a halfvolley from Lyon.

[vayuu1]

Tit for tat, counter insurgency with 3 insurgencies (baloch muhajir and pushtuns)

We should have done the same with chinis, only option is to improve our infrastructure and look to improve economically, more importantly try to be self reliable in lot of fields difficult yes impossible hell no. The realistic target should be to be a 10-12 Trillion dollar economy by 2029

[Real McCoy]

13 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

I dont understand why doesnt India have those drones US and UK use to take out targets from so high up. No need to send any boys or planes in. And Pakistan cant even prove it was India that did it because then they would admit to harbouring terror camps.

That's a good idea. Why put men at risk when you can destroy them from a distance. Maybe the army needs to ask them if the govt is not giving it to them. I'm sure the libtards will be raising a stink. Even with so much backlash in this incident, libtards have never given up on their agenda of army mistreating civilians. They have more perseverance than others in a shocking and perverse way

[Stradlater]

Should Consider this (Disclaimer- I don't support the brutalities on women)

 

Persecution of Pashtuns by Dogras -----

 

In 1837, Raja Gulab Singh of Jammu ordered his army commanders to suppress the revolt of the Yousafzai tribe which formed the biggest proportion of Pashtun tribes. 

He offered one rupee for the head of every Yousafzai man brought to his feet. 

 

They made Kahuta his headquarters and hunted for Muslim Pashtun tribes. They had some of the women spared, but others were kept for Raja Gulab Singh's harem and the rest were sold as slaves in Lahore and Jammu!!!!!

 

It was reported that this expedition resulted in the loss of tens of thousands of Pashtun rebels and thousands of women were sold into slavery.

 

In 1863 the Dogra rajput ruler Maharaja Ranbir Singh ordered a major invasion of the frontier areas of Yasin and Hunza to punish Muslim rebels. 

 

3,000 troops were commanded by General Hooshiara Singh who invaded the frontier. 

The Dogras took all men as prisoners and many Dogra soldiers entered the back portion of the Mandoori Hill which was full of Yasini and Hunza women and their children. 

 

Those women who were injured but not dead were burnt alive and approximately 2000 Yasin villagers were killed overall. 

About 5,000 Yasinis were taken back to Srinagar for forced labor and many of their surviving women were included either in the harems or in the zenanas of Dogra rajput Soldiers....

[mishra]

38 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

I dont understand why doesnt India have those drones US and UK use to take out targets from so high up. No need to send any boys or planes in. And Pakistan cant even prove it was India that did it because then they would admit to harbouring terror camps.

Bhai, Only under Modi, Indian defense got some serious spending. Be it OROP, be it US made assult guns, be it Rafale, be it S-400, be it predator drones, missiles and so on.

 

Previous Congress governments were busy openly telling suppliers "where is the money(kickback)?"

 

When some chewtiya asks what did Modi do in last 5 years, he simply needs to do some googling and will get results sector by sector

Helicopters

======

https://www.zeebiz.com/india/news-modi-govt-approves-rs-210000-crore-plan-to-buy-111-utility-helicopters-for-indian-navy-details-here-60969

Drones: We bought from Israel and US

https://www.financialexpress.com/defence/modi-government-to-fast-track-acquisition-of-lethal-predator-drones-for-indian-navy-and-indian-army/1430508/

Guns: US

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/defence-ministry-approves-procurement-of-73000-assault-rifles-from-us/articleshow/67805267.cms

S400: Russia despite sanction Risk from US. And it avoided sanction

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-45757556

Navy:Homebuilt Submarine.

https://news.sky.com/story/india-has-nuclear-triad-and-submarine-ins-arihant-is-warning-to-enemies-says-pm-modi-11546308

First time we are having home made guns

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/ak-47-maker-in-talks-for-joint-venture-in-india-to-manufacture-weapons/articleshow/49710738.cms

 

List is very long.

HAL production capacity doubled in 4 years. It will probably quadruple if Modi comes back to power

Edited February 18, 2019 by mishra

[Vilander]

4 hours ago, mishra said:

We should coax Trump admin and Isarelis and deal with Iranians and make it clear to MBS and Saudis, If they continue to fund Pakistani Terror, We will buy all our oild from Iran and Latin America. US should put pressure on Saudis else they wont listen. MBS thinks he is Putin type person but If someone starts militarily supporting Iran, which may forget Israel/Palestine issue and stand up directly against Saudis in Yemen, It will bleed Saudis.

This is the basic problem. US likes Saudi over Iran. Iran likes Russia China over US. Saudi have sunni game happening in Pak so support pak. 

 

China is too invested in Pak now, there was a window to resolve boundaries with china and become more alligned, unfortunately that has passed. 

 

Now only option for India is up defence spending and work like crazy to be ready for a 3 front war. Pak china and pln in IOR. India is alone in this no one will suppport but Chinese will respect power. 

[Vilander]

26 minutes ago, mishra said:

Bhai, Only under Modi, Indian defense got some serious spending. Be it OROP, be it US made assult guns, be it Rafale, be it S-400, be it predator drones, missiles and so on.

 

Previous Congress governments were busy openly telling suppliers "where is the money(kickback)?"

 

When some chewtiya asks what did Modi do in last 5 years, he simply needs to do some googling and will get results sector by sector

Helicopters

======

https://www.zeebiz.com/india/news-modi-govt-approves-rs-210000-crore-plan-to-buy-111-utility-helicopters-for-indian-navy-details-here-60969

Drones: We bought from Israel and US

https://www.financialexpress.com/defence/modi-government-to-fast-track-acquisition-of-lethal-predator-drones-for-indian-navy-and-indian-army/1430508/

Guns: US

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/defence-ministry-approves-procurement-of-73000-assault-rifles-from-us/articleshow/67805267.cms

S400: Russia despite sanction Risk from US. And it avoided sanction

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-45757556

Navy:Homebuilt Submarine.

https://news.sky.com/story/india-has-nuclear-triad-and-submarine-ins-arihant-is-warning-to-enemies-says-pm-modi-11546308

First time we are having home made guns

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/ak-47-maker-in-talks-for-joint-venture-in-india-to-manufacture-weapons/articleshow/49710738.cms

 

List is very long.

HAL production capacity doubled in 4 years. It will probably quadruple if Modi comes back to power

Many of those are legit parrikar and bjp defence ministry acheivements. But nuclear submarines have been in development over a decade not a modi acheivement. We cant paint everything as Modi.

[R!TTER]

Just now, Vilander said:

This is the basic problem. US likes Saudi over Iran. Iran likes Russia China over US. Saudi have sunni game happening in Pak so support pak. 

 

China is too invested in Pak now, there was a window to resolve boundaries with china and become more alligned, unfortunately that has passed. 

 

Now only option for India is up defence spending and work like crazy to be ready for a 3 front war. Pak china and pln in IOR. India is alone in this no one will suppport but Chinese will respect power. 

China is only Pro China, they're anti everything else. What China is doing in SA is classic divide & rule - sell goods to India, arm Pak & make money from both sides. If they had any intention to make peace in this region they'd have never armed Pak with nukes.

 

That's true, they've never waged a war they didn't have 100% conviction of winning. Cowardice IMO, they're like that Hyena who's always looking to steal the prey killed by the real predator.

[mishra]

33 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Many of those are legit parrikar and bjp defence ministry acheivements. But nuclear submarines have been in development over a decade not a modi acheivement. We cant paint everything as Modi.

I gathered that in 1 minute googling.  Wha I am certain is Production capacity have improved. And I dont care if its Modi or whever comes to power. For example, First time we are making Roads along the Chinese Indian Border. Why cant previous government see these basic issues and plan accordingly.

Edited February 18, 2019 by mishra

[mishra]

When Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman meets Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi next week, the elephant in the room is likely to be what weighs more: the issues the two men agree on or the ones that divide them.

As a matter of principle, Prince Mohammed and Mr. Modi are likely to take their strategic partnership to a new level as a result of changing energy markets, a decline in American power, the rise of China and the transnational threat of political violence.

Discussions with the crown prince and his delegation of Saudi businessmen on energy and investment will prove to be the easy part. Saudi Arabia is investing US$44 million in a refinery in Maharashtra’s Ratnagiri and supplies 20 percent of India’s crude oil. India, moreover, expects the Saudis to invest in ports and roads while Saudi Arabia is interested in Indian agriculture that would export products to Saudi Arabia.

At first glance, security issues should be a no-brainer. The two countries hold joint military exercises, share intelligence and cooperate on counterterrorism. They are also working to counter money laundering and funding of political violence. Things get complicated, however, when geopolitics kicks in. Prince Mohammed arrives in Delhi on the back of a visit to Pakistan, where he is expected to sign a memorandum of understanding on a framework for $10 billion investments, primarily in oil refining, petrochemicals, renewable energy and mining.

The memo follows significant Saudi aid to help Pakistan evade a financial crisis that included a $3-billion deposit in Pakistan’s central bank to support the country’s balance of payments and another $3 billion in deferred payments for oil imports.

The tricky part are the investments in the memorandum that include a plan by the Saudi national oil company Aramco to build a refinery at the Chinese-backed port of Gwadar, close to Pakistan’s border with Iran and the Indian-backed Iranian port of Chabahar. Both Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are closely monitoring Chabahar’s progress.

A potential Saudi investment in the troubled Pakistani province of Balochistan’s Reko Diq copper and gold mine would strengthen the kingdom’s hold in the strategic province that both Prince Mohammed and US president Donald J Trump’s hardline national security adviser John Bolton see as a potential launching pad for efforts to destabilise Iran. Taken together, the refinery, an oil reserve in Gwadar and the mine would also help Saudi Arabia in efforts to prevent Chabahar from emerging as a powerful Arabian Sea hub.

Saudi funds are flowing into ultra-conservative anti-Shiite, anti-Iranian Sunni madrassas in Balochistan. It remains unclear whether the money originates with the Saudi government, Saudi nationals of Baloch descent or the two million-strong Pakistani diaspora in the kingdom.

The money helps put in place building blocks for possible covert action should the kingdom or the US — or both — decide to act on proposals to support irredentist action.

Such a covert action could jeopardise Indian hopes to use Chabahar to bypass Pakistan, enhance its trade with Afghanistan and Central Asia and create an antidote to Gwadar, a crown jewel in China’s Belt and Road initiative.

Pakistani analysts expect around $5 billion in Afghan trade to flow through Chabahar after India in December started handling the port operations. It could also further strain ties with Pakistan that accuses India of fomenting nationalist unrest in Balochistan.

The funds take on added significance in the face of Saudi concerns about Chabahar and India’s support for the port. The money continues to flow even though the crown prince has significantly cut back on the kingdom’s global funding of ultra-conservative Sunni Muslim groups to bolster his assertion that the kingdom is embracing a more moderate, albeit as yet undefined, form of Islam.

The money started coming in at about the time the Riyadh-based International Institute for Iranian Studies published a study by that said Chabahar posed a “direct threat to the Arab Gulf states” that called for “immediate countermeasures”.

Written by Mohammed Hassan Husseinbor, a Washington-based Iranian Baloch lawyer and activist, the study warned that Chabahar would allow Iran to step up oil exports to India at the expense of Saudi Arabia, raise foreign investment in the Islamic Republic, increase government revenues and allow Tehran some muscle-flexing in the Gulf and the Indian Ocean. Noting the expanse of Iran’s Sistan and Balouchestan province, Mr. Husseinbor said “it would be a formidable challenge, if not impossible, for the Iranian government to protect such long distances and secure Chabahar in the face of widespread Baluch opposition, particularly if this opposition is supported by Iran’s regional adversaries and world powers”.

Published in a country that tightly controls the media as well as the output of think tanks, the study stroked with a memorandum drafted a year later by Bolton before he assumed office. The memo envisioned US support “for the democratic Iranian opposition”, including in Balochistan and Iran’s Sistan and Baluchestan province.

Iranian officials believe that Saudi Arabia and the US have a hand in a string of recent attacks by Baloch, Kurdish and Iranian Arab nationalists but have so far refrained from producing anything beyond allegations. Most recently, they point to a rare suicide bombing in Chabahar in December that targeted a Revolutionary Guards headquarters, killing two people and wounding 40.

 

https://www.eurasiareview.com/18022019-geopolitics-the-black-swan-in-saudi-indian-relations-analysis/

Edited February 18, 2019 by mishra

[Sgattick10]

Is it true that Pak army convoy killed in quetta is false news? Cos Pak Journos are saying no int or local media has carried the news except for Indian channel cnnibn?

[gattaca]

Strangle them with water and money and they will revolt against their own. 

[mishra]

From above blog, all i can make out is in General Zia Ul Haq in 1970s penned Islamisation Program. Result of which was 9/11 26/11 and thousands of terror attacks all across world.

This time Saudis dont need to even use the term Islamisation. They have started terrorism program in return of bailouts and investment.

 

This may proove very expensive to us and rest of world. Atleast Malayasia hass balls to cancel prince visit.

[Vilander]

2 hours ago, mishra said:

Wha I am certain is Production capacity have improved.

production capacity of what ? 

[Dil Dil India]

3 hours ago, vayuu1 said:

Tit for tat, counter insurgency with 3 insurgencies (baloch muhajir and pushtuns)

We should have done the same with chinis, only option is to improve our infrastructure and look to improve economically, more importantly try to be self reliable in lot of fields difficult yes impossible hell no. The realistic target should be to be a 10-12 Trillion dollar economy by 2029

This. For some reason, I always think India are holding back. When the enemy is fighting dirty with no morals, then sometimes you have to get down to their level. Look at Pakistan - they get some random people to do all the dirty work for them and then claim they are non-state actors. Our response? Don't play cricket (at a time when our team is so much better that we can destroy them) and "kadi ninda" and IPL ban. What a joke. If the tables were turned, Pakistan would have used the size and economic advantage to do something devious, no doubt about it.

 

4 hours ago, Gollum said:

You can't sugarcoat cowardice and indecisiveness. That has been our bane right throughout history. 

Couldn't have put it better myself. You can't fight an enemy who will go to any lengths by taking a moral high ground. We need to:

 

1) Be ruthless against terrorist sympathizers in the country. Anshul Saxena is doing a great job getting these terrorist sympathizers fired from their jobs/suspended, etc. People should not be allowed to get away with celebrating the terrorists in the name of freedom of speech.

2) Be ruthless against foreign funded NGOs/human rights organizations

 

In most cases, I'd imagine 1 and 2 fall in the same bracket

 

Furthermore,

 

we need to make sure that all Indians are united. This means no taunting Muslims for being Pakistani, no calling NE people chinkis, South Indians Sri Lankans or whatever. Once we unite internally, we can take out any enemy.

 

Now for the strategic part. IMO, we should:

 

1) Scrap Article 370 - let people from mainland India settle there. Let's get UP walas, Biharis, Madrasis, everyone there. Pakistan have successfully managed to change the demographics of POK by getting people from other parts of Pakistan to settle there. We need to do the same. There will be resistance, but once this is done the situation will right itself in due course.

2) Proxy War - enough of being the "nice guy" always who will only retaliate inadequately when attacked. Fight dirty, show them that we can do it better and on a much larger scale. Our economy can take the hits, theirs can't. Once they realize (hopefully) that it is no longer sustainable for them, they will stop. If they don't, rinse and repeat.

3) Work more on international diplomacy and relations. Focus on Russia, Europe, Middle East and our immediate neighbors (Afg, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka). USA can never be trusted, but ensure that we are always a priority over Pakistan.

4) Use the population size to our advantage - we dwarf Pakistani expats abroad by a longshot. Get out in western countries in large numbers and protest and create awareness.

5) Cyber warfare - destroy them economically. Get the best hackers in our country and offer them great incentives to bring every important Pak website down. Keep crashing their systems with DDOS attacks and the like.