Delhi Shaheen Bagh anti-Hindu jihadi protest

[Mariyam]

@Yoda-esque

Cheshka karat hotay mi.

 

No offence intended.

 

PS: That was a song from the movie GullyBoy. I was trolling  

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Mariyam

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

 

 

I really don't care about the Delhi election results. To paraphrase Kohli, they are not that relevant.

 

I just find that tweet funny, where anyone chanting Azaadi (for whatever reason) is now a part of the tukde tukde gang. Such lazy categorization.

I thought you were trolling and I was, as I  know you don’t care about AAP win/BJP loss. You are not aware of the history of azaadi sloganeering. It started with a Pakistan / Zia drumming up support for Kashmiri struggle for separation to jihadi level of alert. The slogan was used to mobilize Muslims and was played in loudspeakers from mosques when Hindus were driven out of Kashmir. It symbolizes the hate for India and Hindus in particular from the valley.

 

What you are doing is to normalize this hate and terror as something of a mere protest from the left. It is shameful that Congress which knows about this , is out sloganeering with young girls. This azaadi is not of Bhagat Singh variety , but of Bitta Karate and umpteen Afzal or Wani jihadi variety.

 

Again, I am talking about symbolism and not alleging that all chanting azaadi are from tukde tukde gang. It is like marching in a Jewish neighborhood flying a hooked cross flag, we know what it represents. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by coffee_rules

[Mariyam]

@coffee_rules The history of the azaadi sloganeering you've laid out is incomplete and/or incorrect. Let me fill you in on this.

 

Just the word "azaadi" has been sloganeered in the context of the independence movement from the time of the first Indian mutiny. Its a common word.

However; "hum kya chahte?.... azaadi" has a rich history which YOU have chosen to over look intentionally or are simply unaware of.

 

Shiv Mangal Singh Suman, sometime in the 1930s-1940s wrote the poem Hum Panchchi un mukt gagan ke. The poem is essentially about birds yearning to break free from their luxurious golden cage. At the time, many believed, this was an allegorical reference to Indian Civil Servants (those living in golden cages) wanting to break free of their relatively comfortable life under the Raaj and join the freedom struggle. Many Civil Servants decided to join the strife.  The "continuation" of this poem was written by Jagan Nath Azad (He also wrote Pakistan's first national anthem which was then discarded coz well its Pakistan, and how could a kaffir write their quami tarana) in Urdu, wherein the lines 

"Hum kya chahtein.... azaadi" first appeared. These referred to the birds in captivity wanting to break free. I think he wrote this while he or Shiv Mangal Singh Suman were imprisoned. Maybe someone aware of the specifics and from the region, like @mishra @Lurker can explain better.

 

The lines were used through out the 50s and 60s by different groups. Feminists wanting to break free from patriarchy. Communists wanting to break free from the shackles of capitalism etc. Along came Benazir hoarse voice Bhutto and decided to use this in the context of Kashmir. Benazir Bhutto's perverted usurpation and usage of the slogan/phrase is not the beginning of its usage.

 

To give you your own example back, its like the Nazis having misappropriated the Swastika. The Swastik has a millenia old history that predated the advent of Nazism. This slogan has a near century long history that predates the advent of Islamic terrorism in Kashmir. This is why I called it lazy categorization.

 

You may accuse me of normalising hate speech or whatever, but care to point out what exactly the hate speech is in the tweet you've posted? Who/what are they hating on? I'm not condoning the shameless use of a kid for nare-baazi, that too in the cold. But where is the hate speech?

That is textbook peaceful protest. Their constitutional right. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Mariyam

[LordPrabhzy]

32 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

@coffee_rules The history of the azaadi sloganeering you've laid out is incomplete and/or incorrect. Let me fill you in on this.

 

Just the word "azaadi" has been sloganeered in the context of the independence movement from the time of the first Indian mutiny. Its a common word.

However; "hum kya chahte?.... azaadi" has a rich history which YOU have chosen to over look intentionally or are simply unaware of.

 

Shiv Mangal Singh Suman, sometime in the 1930s-1940s wrote the poem Hum Panchchi un mukt gagan ke. The poem is essentially about birds yearning to break free from their luxurious golden cage. At the time, many believed, this was an allegorical reference to Indian Civil Servants (those living in golden cages) wanting to break free of their relatively comfortable life under the Raaj and join the freedom struggle. Many Civil Servants decided to join the strife.  The "continuation" of this poem was written by Jagan Nath Azad (He also wrote Pakistan's first national anthem which was then discarded coz well its Pakistan, and how could a kaffir write their quami tarana) in Urdu, wherein the lines 

"Hum kya chahtein.... azaadi" first appeared. These referred to the birds in captivity wanting to break free. I think he wrote this while he or Shiv Mangal Singh Suman were imprisoned. Maybe someone aware of the specifics and from the region, like @mishra @Lurker can explain better.

 

The lines were used through out the 50s and 60s by different groups. Feminists wanting to break free from patriarchy. Communists wanting to break free from the shackles of capitalism etc. Along came Benazir hoarse voice Bhutto and decided to use this in the context of Kashmir. Benazir Bhutto's perverted usurpation and usage of the slogan/phrase is not the beginning of its usage.

 

To give you your own example back, its like the Nazi's having misappropriated the Swastika. The Swastik has a millenia old history that predated the advent of Nazism. This slogan has a near century long history that predates the advent of Islamic terrorism in Kashmir. This is why I called it lazy categorization.

 

You may accuse me of normalising hate speech or whatever, but care to point out what exactly the hate speech is in the tweet you've posted? Who/what are they hating on? I'm not condoning the shameless use of a kid for nare-baazi, that too in the cold. But where is the hate speech?

That is textbook peaceful protest. Their constitutional right. 

Did you forget the 'Hinduon se Azaadi' slogans in Jamia..?

 

Chalo lets assume for 1 min that they said Hindutva instead.. you would argue that they are protesting about a ideology and it is justified. Now of the tables are turned, and there are mass demonstrations of hindu citizens chanting ' (the hindi word for islamic terrorism/extremism) se Azaadi', would you and the thousands of the Jamia/JNU so called protesters be happy with them doing this as it is their constitutional right to protest OR you all would start labelling them as Hindutva extremists/fascists who are anti muslims? Most probably the latter going by the trends.

 

You cant demand secularism and free speech when you have something to say and when the other side says something you want to shut it down by labelling them fascists and Islamophobic.

 

This is a classic case of ' chit bhi meri patt bhi meri'

[Yoda-esque]

[mention=14415]Yoda-esque[/mention]
Cheshka karat hotay mi.
 
No offence intended.
 
PS: That was a song from the movie GullyBoy. I was trolling  
 

Mala maahit aahe..you would more likely take offence on a dig at Bollywood more than anything on politics;)

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

[coffee_rules]

@Mariyam Every slogan has a contemporary context. Azaadi from 1930s is not the same because of the misappropriation and corruption in recent times. One, should be aware of that. I can go on about how the varna system was intended to begin with and not based on birth, but actions and quote Bhagavat Gita and scriptures. But, since ages it has been corrupted, misused and used for discrimination and one should accept it in today's context, that today's chaturvarna is bad for society. If there is an example prior to 1930 where azaadi chants were popular in protests, it doesn't become the norm for today's protest, after the way it has been diluted. One should be sensitive about, especially one who is an eminent author well-read man like  Salman Khurshid. 

 

The normalization is basically insensitive to lakhs of Hindus who faced terror and genocide (just like the Jews) and had to run for their lives. To come out of Kashmir hearing the same azaadi slogans and later hear it in Delhi will be shockingly haunting for a survivor. Today, people are afraid to put Swastika symbol because of what it represents. And BTW, I called it a Hooked Cross. Look it up, Hitler and the Aryan Germans never called it Swastika, but it was intended to be a hooked cross that represents superior christian symbol. After the events of WWII and the Holocaust, and while it as well, christians who didn't want to get blamed, blamed it on the Swastika and called it as well. 

 

https://www.cbsd.com/9781611720457/the-buddhist-swastika-and-hitlers-cross/

 

As explained, getting a little girl chant it and then grown ups regurgitating it what represents hate speech is what I was referring to, in that tweet. With kids exposed to such a toxic environment will definitely shape their opinions and beliefs.

 

[Mariyam]

16 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

Did you forget the 'Hinduon se Azaadi' slogans in Jamia..?

Chalo lets assume for 1 min that they said Hindutva instead.. you would argue that they are protesting about a ideology and it is justified. Now of the tables are turned, and there are mass demonstrations of hindu citizens chanting ' (the hindi word for islamic terrorism/extremism) se Azaadi', would you and the thousands of the Jamia/JNU so called protesters be happy with them doing this as it is their constitutional right to protest OR you all would start labelling them as Hindutva extremists/fascists who are anti muslims? Most probably the latter going by the trends.

You cant demand secularism and free speech when you have something to say and when the other side says something you want to shut it down by labelling them fascists and Islamophobic.

This is a classic case of ' chit bhi meri patt bhi meri'

What has Jamia to do with this?? 

 

Me and @coffee_rules were talking about the Salman's Khurshid's petty protest using the kid and "Hum kya chahte?... azaadi" slogan.

 

When have I condoned Hinduon se azaadi if at all it was ever chanted?

Tejjinder Singh Bagga, a (losing) candidate for the BJP in these Delhi elections made the same allegations about the Mumbai protests, but it turns out that he was lying.

https://www.altnews.in/no-umar-khalid-did-not-raise-hinduo-se-azadi-slogan-at-gateway-of-india-mumbai/

 

To answer your hypothetical question, if there is a rally that with Islamic Fundamentalism/nizaam-e-Sharia se azaadi chants, I'd join and scream at my loudest.

 

Also, if some people chanted Hinduon se Azaadi in Jamia, they should be booked for hate speech. But don't tell me that every one chanting "hum kya chahte?.... azaadi" is a part of some Leftist-Islamic anti Hindu cabal. It simply isn't.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Mariyam

[LordPrabhzy]

21 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

What has Jamia to do with this?? 

 

Me and @coffee_rules were talking about the Salman's Khurshid's petty protest using the kid and "Hum kya chahte?... azaadi" slogan.

This is all part of the same circle of protests used by Congress and other parties so yes they are all interlinked.

 

When have I condoned Hinduon se azaadi if at all it was ever chanted?

Tejjinder Singh Bagga, a (losing) candidate for the BJP in these Delhi elections made the same allegations about the Mumbai protests, but it turns out that he was lying.

https://www.altnews.in/no-umar-khalid-did-not-raise-hinduo-se-azadi-slogan-at-gateway-of-india-mumbai/

Ok he may be lying about Mumbai but I have personally seen the videos of a protester saying 'Modi se azaadi and hinduon se azaadi' in Jamia. My ears are not going deaf as of yet.

To answer your hypothetical question, if there is a rally that with Islamic Fundamentalism/nizaam-e-Sharia se azaadi chants, I'd join and scream at my loudest.

It will always be a hypothetical situation because of the fear in the minds of the general population of being labelled as Nazis and fascists and anti Muslims, you maybe a lone sane logical person but a large section of the left/liberal spectrum isnt.

Also, if some people chanted Hinduon se Azaadi in Jamia, they should be booked for hate speech. But don't tell me that every one chanting "hum kya chahte?.... azaadi" is a part of some Leftist-Islamic anti Hindu cabal. It simply isn't.

Well ideally they should but when has police taken action on a Muslim citizen and not being labelled as anti muslim? The point is people have so much freedom to talk this crap in a democracy like India and openly incite violence and hate speech and they want azaadi from this.. vaah this is ironic to the core.

 

[Mariyam]

@coffee_rules

The tweet you linked in your post starts with 

"Look who is chanting the Tukde Tukde slogan of Azaadi". The notion that Salman Khurshid, who has held various central portfolios and represented his constituency in the Lok Sabha is a part of the Tukde Tukde gang is laughable. Also Tukde Tukde gang have remixed the "hum kya chahte" poem to their end. Anyone chanting "azaadi" is not directly a card holding member of the tukde tukde crew.

 

In my previous post to you, I detailed out the genesis of the "Azaadi" and "hum kya chahte?.. azaadi" slogans and how were not initially related to Islamisim or Kashmir or Hindu hate or anything that you allege. The slogan was coined by a Hindu and was popular mainly in Uttar Pradesh. And it has been adopted by various movements: feminists/lefts etc. I even highlighted all of this. Yet you, and the person whose tweet you chose to embed, look only at one perversion of this slogan and declare that this is insensitive to Hindus across the board. It isn't the same slogan that the Kashmiri Pandits heard. That is a ludicrous arguement. You are taking one line from an entire array of slogans. The end of that video has the people chant inquilab zindabad.  Salman Khurshid is a senior advocate, an author of sorts and has represented the Government. He is also from the general region from where these poems originated. Do you think he doesn't know what hate speech is? Or isn't aware of the history of the slogan?

 

What you are trying to say is that he Swastik (or hooked cross) is not sullied by the Nazi perversion of the symbol, but "hum kya chahte?.. azaadi" is for ever condemned to be a radical Islamic slogan coz terrorists misappropriated it 30 years ago? That is an inconsistent and tenuous arguement.

 

I asked you earlier too, what exact excerpt in this specific piece of sloganeering is hate speech? 

What is the toxic environment that you speak of?

 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Mariyam

[Mariyam]

18 hours ago, Yoda-esque said:

Mala maahit aahe..you would more likely take offence on a dig at Bollywood more than anything on politics;)

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

This is true.

[coffee_rules]

On 2/13/2020 at 4:54 AM, Mariyam said:

@coffee_rules

The tweet you linked in your post starts with 

"Look who is chanting the Tukde Tukde slogan of Azaadi". The notion that Salman Khurshid, who has held various central portfolios and represented his constituency in the Lok Sabha is a part of the Tukde Tukde gang is laughable. Also Tukde Tukde gang have remixed the "hum kya chahte" poem to their end. Anyone chanting "azaadi" is not directly a card holding member of the tukde tukde crew.

Looks like we are repeating things like  broken record, hence quoting specifically. I never said that they are all part of tukde tukde gang. But they should know what it represents and what the rest of the country is thinking about the azaadi sloganeering.  It is considered to be part of tukde gang by the majority. It represents some of the terror that Hindus faced in Muslim majority areas.

Quote

In my previous post to you, I detailed out the genesis of the "Azaadi" and "hum kya chahte?.. azaadi" slogans and how were not initially related to Islamisim or Kashmir or Hindu hate or anything that you allege. The slogan was coined by a Hindu and was popular mainly in Uttar Pradesh. And it has been adopted by various movements: feminists/lefts etc. I even highlighted all of this. Yet you, and the person whose tweet you chose to embed, look only at one perversion of this slogan and declare that this is insensitive to Hindus across the board. It isn't the same slogan that the Kashmiri Pandits heard. That is a ludicrous arguement. You are taking one line from an entire array of slogans. The end of that video has the people chant inquilab zindabad.  Salman Khurshid is a senior advocate, an author of sorts and has represented the Government. He is also from the general region from where these poems originated. Do you think he doesn't know what hate speech is? Or isn't aware of the history of the slogan?

I gave an analogy of the Hooked cross. Some Hindus in the west are made to feel sensitive about the Swastika, that is revered as an auspicious symbol, mainly because it was misappropriated by the Nazis. Hum Kya Chahte hain is such an old reference, we can't keep going back. Also, I gave the example of the varna system. The contemporary contextual reference is bad, hence we can't refer to Gita and says it is all good and noble. Similar to that. The same group in the mob starts with 'Hum Kya chahte hai.." goes on to say "Kafforon se", "Hinduon se", and there is no moderator in the mob going to lecture them about the 1925s noble intentions of the slogan. 

Quote

What you are trying to say is that he Swastik (or hooked cross) is not sullied by the Nazi perversion of the symbol, but "hum kya chahte?.. azaadi" is for ever condemned to be a radical Islamic slogan coz terrorists misappropriated it 30 years ago? That is an inconsistent and tenuous arguement.

 

Quote

I asked you earlier too, what exact excerpt in this specific piece of sloganeering is hate speech? 

What is the toxic environment that you speak of?

 

 

I never said Swastika is not sullied, but I said that the Christian Hooked Cross symbol of Nazis has inadvertently caused irreparable damage to Swastika by false association. Similarly the mob chanting "Kafforon se", "Hinduon Se" etc has done the same association to your noble "Azaadi" slogan and the majority has associated anybody chanting Azaadi to the same level of hate. It represents the "GrihN" that the the sloganeering mob has for Hindus.

Edited February 14, 2020 by coffee_rules

[Gollum]

This disease is spreading everyhere

 

[Gollum]

This must be done in SB as well....well done Chennai Police, patience isn't infinite

@velu was right, these are no-nonsense guys unlike police personnel in most other states. Compare their proactivity with the passiveness  of uniformed sloths/cowards in Bengal 

Edited February 14, 2020 by Gollum

[velu]

19 hours ago, Gollum said:

This must be done in SB as well....well done Chennai Police, patience isn't infinite

@velu was right, these are no-nonsense guys unlike police personnel in most other states. Compare their proactivity with the passiveness  of uniformed sloths/cowards in Bengal 

 

checked the news ..

anti-caa protests were cancelled after police assures them that detained protesters will be freed 

[someone]

It's a big hostage crisis. Certain group have captured space and public properties and not willing to let it go, till their unjust demands are met. It's dangerous times and strong implications, and hopefully, the government negotiates it well enough.

 

Not a single media is seeing it as a hostage situation. It's nothing political, religious, but plain hostage crisis.

Edited February 15, 2020 by someone

[Laaloo]

From protestors in azad maidan mumbai

 

 

Women protesters raised slogans like "Hum betiyan hain Jhansi ki Rani Ki aur Mata Jijau ki

 

 

 

[Mariyam]

@LordPrabhzy

Who is a leftist?  

Are you calling me one?

 

I can't quite follow your post the way you've quoted me. Perhaps some problem with ICF's reply option?

 

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Mariyam

[Laaloo]

@vayuu1 so do these people just stay there all day and protest? What about restrooms and food?

[Gollum]

 

[FischerTal]

 

always knew she was behind this. she let the cat out of the bag as wel.. this was never about protesting against CAA or NRC. its always been about hatred for Modi and now Shah.

Edited February 20, 2020 by FischerTal