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Speed and performance of pacers and spinners in important matches

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Damn! Md Sami bowls at 146.7 in PSL! At this age! Officially he says 37, but ideally should be 40! Gawddd!

 

I remember Zaheer Khan and Sami made debut around the same time and around then, Zaheer Khan used to be faster than him in top speed! Sami used to be a 140 and a max of 145 when on song for almost 2-3 yrs until suddenly he started bowling in 150's!

 

Overall, I am happy to see some of the bowlers from my era and closer to my age still bowling express!

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On 2/18/2018 at 3:05 PM, express bowling said:

 

Harvinder had pace and hit the deck hard.  Srinath once said that he liked Harvinder as he had pace.

 

Watch him bowl on a slow and low pitch below against Australia ....  hurries Slater very first ball  ...  watch the rising delivery from 12.50

 

 

 

 

http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/69659/ranji-trophy-2014-15-interview-harvinder-singh-i-had-no-one-to-guide-me-during-india-stint

Edited by saik

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16 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Damn! Md Sami bowls at 146.7 in PSL! At this age! Officially he says 37, but ideally should be 40! Gawddd!

 

I remember Zaheer Khan and Sami made debut around the same time and around then, Zaheer Khan used to be faster than him in top speed! Sami used to be a 140 and a max of 145 when on song for almost 2-3 yrs until suddenly he started bowling in 150's!

 

Overall, I am happy to see some of the bowlers from my era and closer to my age still bowling express!

sami always had pace. but speed guns have become more accurate now, not yet standardized its pretty easy to tweak them to show higher numbers.  We wont see many stand out express any more it will be more normalized each team having 145 plus bowlers or eventually each one having 1 or 2 150 but it will be normalised unlike what we saw earlier..suddenly someone bowling super fast and hitting 160 in a game or a series and not hitting it a few games played elsewhere etc. We might still have non standardised diff in Aus will pick fastest reading in India slowest etc.

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11 minutes ago, Vilander said:

sami always had pace. but speed guns have become more accurate now, not yet standardized its pretty easy to tweak them to show higher numbers.  We wont see many stand out express any more it will be more normalized each team having 145 plus bowlers or eventually each one having 1 or 2 150 but it will be normalised unlike what we saw earlier..suddenly someone bowling super fast and hitting 160 in a game or a series and not hitting it a few games played elsewhere etc. We might still have non standardised diff in Aus will pick fastest reading in India slowest etc.

I wonder how theres no standardization of speed guns. Ideally, ICC should caliberate all speed guns and have consistent ones across the test playing nations. 

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10 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

I wonder how theres no standardization of speed guns. Ideally, ICC should caliberate all speed guns and have consistent ones across the test playing nations. 

i dont think they do, or may be they do now..but 2003 wc was definitely not standardized everyone was 5-8 km quicker, may be they just took the fastest reading like what you see in Aus.

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4 minutes ago, Vilander said:

i dont think they do, or may be they do now..but 2003 wc was definitely not standardized everyone was 5-8 km quicker, may be they just took the fastest reading like what you see in Aus.

really? 2003 seemed correct to me. When Zaheer tried to bowl express in the finals, he got tonked. And Wasim and Waqar were bowling their regular medium pace. There didnt seem to be any discrepancy there.

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35 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

really? 2003 seemed correct to me. When Zaheer tried to bowl express in the finals, he got tonked. And Wasim and Waqar were bowling their regular medium pace. There didnt seem to be any discrepancy there.

you could have a point there...i had my doubts as Aktar went from 152-155 peak to 161 and Zak and Nehra went from 142-145 peak to 148-149 ..even srinath was hitting 141-145..Dilhara fernando i remmember hit 147...may be they were using the fastest reading..

 

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8 hours ago, Vilander said:

i dont think they do, or may be they do now..but 2003 wc was definitely not standardized everyone was 5-8 km quicker, may be they just took the fastest reading like what you see in Aus.

Not everyone was 5-8K quicker.  

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10 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Not everyone was 5-8K quicker.  

you should write more like substantiate, your statements are very short. whom do you have in mind..the fastest i saw akram bowl was 140 i dont remember waqar may be he was trundling 135...i remember Flintoff ..jermain lawson for WI ? or jerome taylor someone hit 150+ Lee and Akthar were super quick

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6 minutes ago, Vilander said:

look at Shane Bond here...easily hitting 155..he was super quick always but was he always express ?

 

 

 

Bond hit 150 plus before and after too. same with lee and Akhtar they hit 150 plus after that too.  Lee in bowled his quickest ODI over in 2005 in NZ and that was for sure quick.

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10 minutes ago, Vilander said:

you should write more like substantiate, your statements are very short. whom do you have in mind..the fastest i saw akram bowl was 140 i dont remember waqar may be he was trundling 135...i remember Flintoff ..jermain lawson for WI ? or jerome taylor someone hit 150+ Lee and Akthar were super quick

McGrath bowled his usual pace.  Jermaine Lawson was quick though he was chucking. 

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2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Bond hit 150 plus before and after too. same with lee and Akhtar they hit 150 plus after that too.  Lee in bowled his quickest ODI over in 2005 in NZ and that was for sure quick.

Lee Akthar hit 160 in Wc rite and Bond is seen hitting 155. Look at some of his deliveries they are not all super quick for naked eye. 

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4 hours ago, Vilander said:

.33 that delivery shows 154 for me it does not look that fast.. It is quick but may be some of speed readings were high. 

it certainly looked quick to me.  look at how far back the keeper is standing and still carrying comfortably.

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4 hours ago, Vilander said:

Lee Akthar hit 160 in Wc rite and Bond is seen hitting 155. Look at some of his deliveries they are not all super quick for naked eye. 

i am saying those were peak years of Lee and AKhtar in terms of pace. They  both hit 155 plus speeds later too. lee his quickest ever over in 2005, hitting 158, 160, 161K in that over.

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19 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Damn! Md Sami bowls at 146.7 in PSL! At this age! Officially he says 37, but ideally should be 40! Gawddd!

 

I remember Zaheer Khan and Sami made debut around the same time and around then, Zaheer Khan used to be faster than him in top speed! Sami used to be a 140 and a max of 145 when on song for almost 2-3 yrs until suddenly he started bowling in 150's!

 

Overall, I am happy to see some of the bowlers from my era and closer to my age still bowling express!

I think Sami's age is legit. As for his pace, when Sami debuted he was , I believe only 19 years old so I guess him bowling at his quickest around 2003-2005 is not that big a surprise since most fast bowlers start bowling their quickest around that time . Wasted talent if ever there was one. 

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3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

i am saying those were peak years of Lee and AKhtar in terms of pace. They  both hit 155 plus speeds later too. lee his quickest ever over in 2005, hitting 158, 160, 161K in that over.

again those were in Australia rite ? i am not saying they were not fast, but i think there is a degree of variance between speed guns across the world Aus and in particular 2003 WC in SA had faster readings( its not all bowlers trying to go full out because its WC - some of it down to speed guns calibration). Again this is speculative, i remember one of Lee's earlier fast ball 161.8 was dismissed as a speed gun error i dont remember but there was one, he hit 160 multiple times later on so in my mind may be he hit it similarly earlier..with a good speed gun.

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3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

it certainly looked quick to me.  look at how far back the keeper is standing and still carrying comfortably.

dips a litte compared to other balls but is easily the quickest. i am not convinced that its is 155. Some of those pace balls from Akthar in asia and elsewhere used to look faster but could be camera angles resolution video frame rate etc..you never know. Overall i suspect SA WC gave 4-5ks benefit to bowlers in terms of speed.

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4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Most pacers clocked " higher than their normal speeds "  in the 2003 WC

it could be down to them playing to the occasion ( one of the best cricket world cups with several good teams even Zim and Kenya were decent) but i think it could have been a harmless unintentional case of taking fastest speed gun readings.

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42 minutes ago, Vilander said:

again those were in Australia rite ? i am not saying they were not fast, but i think there is a degree of variance between speed guns across the world Aus and in particular 2003 WC in SA had faster readings( its not all bowlers trying to go full out because its WC - some of it down to speed guns calibration). Again this is speculative, i remember one of Lee's earlier fast ball 161.8 was dismissed as a speed gun error i dont remember but there was one, he hit 160 multiple times later on so in my mind may be he hit it similarly earlier..with a good speed gun.

In New Zealand in 2005. watch this and tell if this is not quick. 

 

if 

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2 hours ago, Vilander said:

it could be down to them playing to the occasion ( one of the best cricket world cups with several good teams even Zim and Kenya were decent) but i think it could have been a harmless unintentional case of taking fastest speed gun readings.

I am more than sure that the pace was genuine. And I can give you some quotes too. While Nehra and Zaheer clocked 145+ consistently, Srinath bowled at his usual pace of 138ish which he was bowling in previous series and for the past 2-3 yrs. He clocked 143.7k's once in the tournament, which was totally legit. Wasim and Waqar bowled around 135-138ish which was their regular pace, so did Mcgrath. 

Nehra, who found his rhythm the entire series, clocked 149.7, and immediately the next day, Andy Flower, who had faced that entire over, made a comment in the press that the Indian bowlers ' had gotten faster'. I seriously doubt he saw the speed gun reading and said so. He experienced it. The whole English team made statements that the Indians bowled the fastest as a unit and also bowled heavy balls and hence were the toughest pace wise. Zaheer Khan tried to bowl genuine quick the entire series and at the end, when it was visible he was trying for pace, he clocked 148 but got tonked all over!

 

Also, like rkt said before, Brett Lee and Shoaib were at the peak of their career around 2003, hence the speeds too. They clocked similar pace across the world around the same time!

 

Hence, I dont think the speed guns showed the fastest speeds. In my view, they were genuine.

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10 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

I am more than sure that the pace was genuine. And I can give you some quotes too. While Nehra and Zaheer clocked 145+ consistently, Srinath bowled at his usual pace of 138ish which he was bowling in previous series and for the past 2-3 yrs. He clocked 143.7k's once in the tournament, which was totally legit. Wasim and Waqar bowled around 135-138ish which was their regular pace, so did Mcgrath. 

Nehra, who found his rhythm the entire series, clocked 149.7, and immediately the next day, Andy Flower, who had faced that entire over, made a comment in the press that the Indian bowlers ' had gotten faster'. I seriously doubt he saw the speed gun reading and said so. He experienced it. The whole English team made statements that the Indians bowled the fastest as a unit and also bowled heavy balls and hence were the toughest pace wise. Zaheer Khan tried to bowl genuine quick the entire series and at the end, when it was visible he was trying for pace, he clocked 148 but got tonked all over!

 

Also, like rkt said before, Brett Lee and Shoaib were at the peak of their career around 2003, hence the speeds too. They clocked similar pace across the world around the same time!

 

Hence, I dont think the speed guns showed the fastest speeds. In my view, they were genuine.

We only have anecdotes and speculations on either side bottomline is these speeds are considered legitimate. So they indeed bowled those speed gun calibration or otherwise. But i bet the first Indian to hit 160 will do so while playing in Australia.

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9 minutes ago, Vilander said:

We only have anecdotes and speculations on either side bottomline is these speeds are considered legitimate. So they indeed bowled those speed gun calibration or otherwise. But i bet the first Indian to hit 160 will do so while playing in Australia.

but WC 2003 was not played in Australia

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12 minutes ago, Vilander said:

We only have anecdotes and speculations on either side bottomline is these speeds are considered legitimate. So they indeed bowled those speed gun calibration or otherwise. But i bet the first Indian to hit 160 will do so while playing in Australia.

Bro, WC 2003 was played in South Africa. And the speed guns seemed legit this time around. If anything, the Indian bowlers were bowling slower which was puzzling!

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36 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Bro, WC 2003 was played in South Africa. And the speed guns seemed legit this time around. If anything, the Indian bowlers were bowling slower which was puzzling!

Its always normal in SA, only 2003 wc was the exception it was more like in Aus where everyone gets a bit faster normally.

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We need to find a good quality express bowler like Starc ...  someone who can bowl in good areas while clocking 140 k to 152 k.

 

Starc showed what really high pace and reverse swing  with control can achieve ...  running through SA on a track which looked flat for seamers on day 2.

 

Khaleel and Nagarkoti are the ones who can bowl close to 150 k ...  and are good bowlers too.  They need to be groomed with extra attention.

 

I hope more new prospects come to the fore.

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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While I agree India, or any other country can do with bowlers clocking 150, dont agree about the Starc reference. I watched the whole of the match and Starc did not look threatening for majority of the play. Especially during the opening spells were boring even though he was clocking 150. His pace had little effect on batsmen. As they say, there are days when things work your way. Thats what happened to Starc. Lyon and Cummins were more impressive.

 

Had India held on to the catches in South Africa and the missed chances, things may have been different.

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4 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

While I agree India, or any other country can do with bowlers clocking 150, dont agree about the Starc reference. I watched the whole of the match and Starc did not look threatening for majority of the play. Especially during the opening spells were boring even though he was clocking 150. His pace had little effect on batsmen. As they say, there are days when things work your way. Thats what happened to Starc. Lyon and Cummins were more impressive.

 

Had India held on to the catches in South Africa and the missed chances, things may have been different.

I did not see the game but read he got reverse swing. India did not play in durban but yeah did any of our bowlers get it to reverse. Starc is doing something well. But indian loss was down to poor batting mostly.

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9 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

While I agree India, or any other country can do with bowlers clocking 150, dont agree about the Starc reference. I watched the whole of the match and Starc did not look threatening for majority of the play. Especially during the opening spells were boring even though he was clocking 150. His pace had little effect on batsmen. As they say, there are days when things work your way. Thats what happened to Starc. Lyon and Cummins were more impressive.

 

Had India held on to the catches in South Africa and the missed chances, things may have been different.

Cummins also bowled 150

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4 hours ago, Vilander said:

I did not see the game but read he got reverse swing. India did not play in durban but yeah did any of our bowlers get it to reverse. Starc is doing something well. But indian loss was down to poor batting mostly.

And bad bowling at crucial moments. Our bowlers failed to seize the right moments and fielders also played their part in that.

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what selectors n captains n coaches in india fail to understand is we need a very competetive boling pool not just one or two bowlers n not to waste time n energy in whetting mediocre n poor bowlers like Shardul n Unadkunt, Shami has been up n down ,Bhuvi is good but not as versatile, we need to bring in Saini, Khalil, Aniket, Ankit, Umesh, Aaron, n make fast bowlers compete n hu t in pairs n also this way if a bowler has poor form or not unfit we have a good replacment  like Australia has, its time Aaron ,Saini, Ankit, Aniket, Sangwan, L Yadav, Khalil, Khejroliya come into the picture.

Also with a stronger pool n competetion for places bowlers will try harder n bowl with intensity, same goes with batsmen, most our problems starts n ends with selections, squad n playing 11 selections r keeping us from becoming a force.

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5 hours ago, Vilander said:

I did not see the game but read he got reverse swing. India did not play in durban but yeah did any of our bowlers get it to reverse. Starc is doing something well. But indian loss was down to poor batting mostly.

I think Shami got the reverse swing going in the third test at wanderers.

Edited by Insidious

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

And bad bowling at crucial moments. Our bowlers failed to seize the right moments and fielders also played their part in that.

our Problem was  our two mainstream fast bowlers who were instrumental to our rise to No.1 Test ranking, suddenly lost their rhythm and form. Umesh, who was totally world-class against Australia, suddenly lost his pace (at least 5 ks) and rhythm in srilanka. Shami, after being recovered from his injury, is not the same force, he used to be. It is very difficult to recover as a team, when two of your best fast bowlers, suddenly became so  in-effective,  before the start of a big series. We are lucky that we had Bumrah , otherwise it would have been shambolic.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Insidious said:

our Problem was  our two mainstream fast bowlers who were instrumental to our rise to No.1 Test ranking, suddenly lost their rhythm and form. Umesh, who was totally world-class against Australia,  lost his pace (at least 5 ks) and rhythm against srilanka. Shami, after being recovered from his injury, is not the same force, he used to be. It is very difficult to recover as a team, when two of your best fast bowlers, suddenly became so  in-effective,  before the start of a big series. We are lucky that we had Bumrah , otherwise it would have been shambolic.

 

 

 

Edited by Insidious

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6 hours ago, Vilander said:

I did not see the game but read he got reverse swing. India did not play in durban but yeah did any of our bowlers get it to reverse. Starc is doing something well. But indian loss was down to poor batting mostly.

3 of Starc's wickets were caught. How many catches were caught of INdian bowlers? I think most people here did not watch the match in entirety. I watched it. Starc looked toothless in the first half. He did get reverse swing later but theres a little more to all this than just saying Indian bowlers didnt do it. Australia had already put up a score of close to 350 by then. 

 

I say we already have a bowling attack pretty similar to such attacks. They just need to acclimatize better and need backing from the team. 

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27 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Looking at Khaleel Ahmed bowl today ...  he has a lot of impressive qualities

  • Good aggressive  run-up
  • Strong action 
  • Good pace
  • Good height and gets bounce.
  • Left-armer
  • Can move the ball both ways
  • Good bouncer
  • Decent yorker and slower ball

 

 

Agreed to all points. But I see him not being CONSISTENT..a bit like UMESH was.

I think he needs 3 to 6 months more to play for INDIA..i dont want him to wait more also bcos at this time he is Super fast and he should be played at his peak.

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28 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

Agreed to all points. But I see him not being CONSISTENT..a bit like UMESH was.

I think he needs 3 to 6 months more to play for INDIA..i dont want him to wait more also bcos at this time he is Super fast and he should be played at his peak.

 

Khaleel might take more than a year to be ready to play for India in the 2 longer formats.

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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Looking at Khaleel Ahmed bowl today ...  he has a lot of impressive qualities

  • Good aggressive  run-up
  • Strong action 
  • Good pace
  • Good height and gets bounce.
  • Left-armer
  • Can move the ball both ways
  • Good bouncer
  • Decent yorker and slower ball

 

 

What was his top speed?

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19 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

141 k

 

It was also the top speed of the match featuring Shami, Umesh, Saini and Thampi.

I wonder why the speeds have gone down when these guys were bowling full steam in Syed Mushtaq Ali Trophy

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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

141 k

 

It was also the top speed of the match featuring Shami, Umesh, Saini and Thampi.

Wow what happened to thse guys may be conserving taking it easy.

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