Kumble should have never become India coach

[sandeep]

9 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

Couple of things about this presumed conflict of interest. VVS and Kumble having a joint commercial venture does not automatically mean a conflict of interest scenario.

 

But even more importantly, if there indeed was a case of conflict of interest, then VVS should have recused himself from the selection committee. Kumble candidature would still have remained unaffected. 

 

Lastly, no captain should have any say in 1) selection of team, and 2) selection of coach.

Of course a Captain should have a say in the selection of the team - within reason.   You can't ask a Captain to be responsible for a team/squad that has players he doesn't think are capable enough.   That's the Australian model, and I am 110% against it.    

 

But the Captain should not have carte blanche.  He needs to be able to handle dissenting opinions with grace and maturity.  Not by throwing toys out of his pram.  

Edited June 22, 2017 by sandeep

[mishra]

After hearing what is coming in media, My respect for Kumble has grown even more. He was not the voice of "dissent" but only "sane". Kohli does needs a headmaster in dressing room.

Indian team kisi ke baap ki Jaagir nahi hai.

[BeautifulGame]

BTW why Kohli was against Kumble even before his appointment?

 

Because he had issues with Kumble even from his RCB days

[mishra]

5 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

Because he had issues with Kumble even from his RCB days

Interesting. Dont remember anything in media

[BeautifulGame]

 

Interesting. Dont remember anything in media

 

 

 

Not surprising .

 

For all the criticism of Kohli ,it's Kohli who has kept silence throughout this issue .Even the sources media reporting are quoting BCCI sources not any media quoting sources close to Kohli.

 

But Kumble first through Guha and in his resignation letter lashed out at Kohli publically and is washing dressing room issues in public .

 

Yet Kohli is the arrogant brat and Kumble is the man of integrity.

 

Too much bias and perceptions dictating people opinions.

 

 

[sandeep]

9 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

Not surprising .

 

For all the criticism of Kohli ,it's Kohli who has kept silence throughout this issue .Even the sources media reporting are quoting BCCI sources not any source close to Kohli.

 

But Kumble first through Guha and in his resignation letter lashed out at Kohli publically and is washing dressing room issues in public .

 

Yet Kohli is the arrogant brat and Kumble is the man of integrity.

 

Too much bias and perceptions dictating people opinions.

Very skewed version of events.    VK went on public record endorsing the BCCI efforts to solicit new coach applications.   By claiming that the "process" was an expected and reasonable one - when everyone knew that the one year trial period was meant to be extended without any fuss as long as there weren't any issues, said it very loudly and clearly.  Kumble didn't say a word.  So not accurate to say that Kohli has been silent on the issue.  And a lot of the news articles targeting Kumble in the last month smack of PR tactics executed by VK reps - may not be explicitly ordred by him, but still.  And Kumble has still not really gone public with his "side".  All we have is his resignation letter.   Is it realistic to expect a man who takes pride and self-respect in the way he does his job, not to say a few lines in his own resignation letter defending himself?   Especially if he believes he's not in the wrong?   

Edited June 22, 2017 by sandeep

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, sarchasm said:

Australian model or not, it's the correct way to go. A captain offers limited insight when it comes to selectorial calls because he hardly has the time to follow players not in the squad. His insight would be limited to the players already in squad, and even there the benefits of such insight have to be weighed against risks including undue influence, bias, favoritism etc. By all means consult the captain but handing him a vote is not worth it.

Sorry, strongly disagree.  When it comes to selecting the playing XI out of the squad, the captain is well positioned to be aware of form, fitness, match-ups vs the opposition - all of that.   The captain should be able to convey his thoughts on what the squad make-up should be from a skill-set perspective - leggie / offie, left-arm pace etc for a given series or tournament - although squad selection should really be driven by selectors.  But I'm with @BeautifulGame on this aspect - captain should be given the team he wants to lead into a game.    

[mishra]

8 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

 

 

Not surprising .

 

For all the criticism of Kohli ,it's Kohli who has kept silence throughout this issue .Even the sources media reporting are quoting BCCI sources not any media quoting sources close to Kohli.

 

But Kumble first through Guha and in his resignation letter lashed out at Kohli publically and is washing dressing room issues in public .

 

Yet Kohli is the arrogant brat and Kumble is the man of integrity.

 

Too much bias and perceptions dictating people opinions.

 

 

CoA is one body who is hell bent in bringing down Indian Cricket. My opinion. Not going to change at all on CoA unless they miraculously find some magic wand which brings BCCI earning at par to its contributions.

 

Now Kumble seem to have been clearly used by CoA during that episode.I blame BCCI and CoA for that. Kumble , the CAC trio, senior players like Gvaskar and allshould have been clearly briefed by Johri and Co to stfu till negotiations are over. Yes a  Gag.

 

Whatever rest you are extrapolating, once again, If Sources Close to BCCI <> Sources Close to Kohli

then

Sources Close to BCCI <> Sources Close to Kumble.

+ Kohli is having issue for past 6 months. Kumble has been a coach for over a year. If what is reported in media is true, any coach will be pi$$ed. He would have said to bat first and Captain goes in middle and says bowl first.

 

To me, Kumble resigned shows how much he values Indian Cricket as he realized Kohli will do exactly opposite to what he says and He cant stop saying right things.

 

 

 

[BeautifulGame]

- when everyone knew that the one year trial period was meant to be extended without any fuss as long as there weren't any issues, said it very loudly and clearly.  Kumble didn't say a word.    

 

The one year trial was basically an experiment on whether Kumble and Kohli could work as a partnership.

 

Infact Kumble was given one year contract instead of standard two year on the basis of the Kohli's misgivings and it was agreed that they will review how it works and review it after one year.This much was confirmed by Shirke (the then BCCI secretary).

 

 

 

And considering they weren't even in talking terms for six months not sure how it was meant to be extended without any fuss.

 

 

[BeautifulGame]

To me, Kumble resigned shows how much he values Indian Cricket as he realized Kohli will do exactly opposite to what he says and He cant stop saying right things.

 

 

 

 

No offense but Kumble resigned because basically he is booted out.BCCI and CAC both backed Kohli so Kumble had no option.I would have agreed with that statement if Kumble had resigned after Australia series at least .

 

But if they valued Indian cricket that much (this applied to both Kohli and Kumble) they would have discussed these issues and either solved or parts ways once the Aussie series was over.

Both weren't even in talking terms with each yet they let it pester and went into the CT defense in this mess.

 

And none of the senior players like Dhoni Yuvi or Ashwin come out of this looking good either.They should have taken the lead and sorted this issue way before CT.And none of them bothered as long as status quo was maintained.

 

No one deserves or emerges with credit from this mess.

[prudent_kreeda]

28 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

 

 

Not surprising .

 

For all the criticism of Kohli ,it's Kohli who has kept silence throughout this issue .Even the sources media reporting are quoting BCCI sources not any media quoting sources close to Kohli.

 

But Kumble first through Guha and in his resignation letter lashed out at Kohli publically and is washing dressing room issues in public .

 

Yet Kohli is the arrogant brat and Kumble is the man of integrity.

 

Too much bias and perceptions dictating people opinions.

 

 

    No . its not the time for him to keep silence . He should spell out what were the reasons  which made him to conclude that Kumble should       go and how they were damaging the interest and progress of team .  He should not accept and keep quiet if an attempt is being made            throw muck at him .  Why the nation is kept in dark? 

     

    how come its confirmed that Guha  was used ? Any concrete proof ? 

     Or just a bias and perception ? 

    It seems some people  wanted Kumble to thank BCCI  and do not want to make it known what made Kohli to think AK should go. 

     This is not at all washing dirty linen in public.

      If VK feels he made the right decision in best interest in mind , why not make it known?

      Why take the muck when he is right ?  Why give chance to all people including yesteryear cricketers to point a finger at him?  

 

   

 

    

     

    

 

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

From Express article

http://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/anil-kumble-virat-kohli-india-coach-palace-intrigue-4715891/

 

So Sachin picked  Shastri as coach , Ganguly because of his feud with Shastri picked Kumble.And thenLaxman who was a business partner of Kumble and who benefits monetarily by any allliviation of Kumble , made the decision to pick Kumble  by casting the decisive vote.

 

One can fully understand if Kohli had misgivings about Kumble from the beginning considering the selection process.

 

Kumble maybe a man of integrity during his playing days but sorry he doesn't come across good here.If he was so should have made public his nature of relationship with Laxman before the interview process and Laxman should have stepped down from the committee.

 

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-laxman-selected-kumble-as-coach-while-being-shareholder-in-his-firm-2229527

'conflict of interest' alluded. But what if the interests allign ?

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

The one year trial was basically an experiment on whether Kumble and Kohli could work as a partnership.

 

Infact Kumble was given one year contract instead of standard two year on the basis of the Kohli's misgivings and it was agreed that they will review how it works and review it after one year.This much was confirmed by Shirke (the then BCCI secretary).

 

And considering they weren't even in talking terms for six months not sure how it was meant to be extended without any fuss.

Question is why they weren't able to "work together as a partnership".  Did Kumble take VK's lunch money?  Insult his tattoos?  Aren't they both supposedly smart capable cricket professionals with the same agenda and goals for Indian cricket?   What led to this supposed breakdown?   Where is the disconnect coming from?   

 

I'm sorry, but this is not a marriage where you can just say, its not working for me and I want a blonde instead of a brunette.   Its a professional working relationship - there have to be legitimate and reasonable grounds for making such a drastic demand such as the termination of a coach.   I know we are  not on the same page on this - you view a captain's demand of this type as legitimate even in the absence of any reason, I do not.  

[BeautifulGame]

Question is why they weren't able to "work together as a partnership".  Did Kumble take VK's lunch money?  Insult his tattoos?  Aren't they both supposedly smart capable cricket professionals with the same agenda and goals for Indian cricket?   What led to this supposed breakdown?   Where is the disconnect coming from?   

 

I'm sorry, but this is not a marriage where you can just say, its not working for me and I want a blonde instead of a brunette.   Its a professional working relationship - there have to be legitimate and reasonable grounds for making such a drastic demand such as the termination of a coach.   I know we are  not on the same page on this - you view a captain's demand of this type as legitimate even in the absence of any reason, I do not.  

 

No I don't believe this lack of reason justifies it.

 

I just prefer they keep their issues in the dressing room.If they cant work with each other then find someone who can capably work with the captain.

 

What I do believe Captain is far more important in cricket than coach.

[prudent_kreeda]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Question is why they weren't able to "work together as a partnership".  Did Kumble take VK's lunch money?  Insult his tattoos?  Aren't they both supposedly smart capable cricket professionals with the same agenda and goals for Indian cricket?   What led to this supposed breakdown?   Where is the disconnect coming from?   

 

I'm sorry, but this is not a marriage where you can just say, its not working for me and I want a blonde instead of a brunette.   Its a professional working relationship - there have to be legitimate and reasonable grounds for making such a drastic demand such as the termination of a coach.   I know we are  not on the same page on this - you view a captain's demand of this type as legitimate even in the absence of any reason, I do not.  

    What if Kumble demanded VK to stepdown and he gets removed ?  

    Will anybody take it if Kumble does not spell out the reasons why he such a demand ? 

    And if VK  asks the reasons why he was removed , will it be regarded as a case of washing dressing room details in public? 

    Will some of Icfers  who try to portray VK  doing a great job by asking not to continue with Ak and then not stating what are the reasons

    which made him to think so?  

[mishra]

50 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

No offense but Kumble resigned because basically he is booted out.BCCI and CAC both backed Kohli so Kumble had no option.I would have agreed with that statement if Kumble had resigned after Australia series at least .

 

But if they valued Indian cricket that much (this applied to both Kohli and Kumble) they would have discussed these issues and either solved or parts ways once the Aussie series was over.

Both weren't even in talking terms with each yet they let it pester and went into the CT defense in this mess.

 

And none of the senior players like Dhoni Yuvi or Ashwin come out of this looking good either.They should have taken the lead and sorted this issue way before CT.And none of them bothered as long as status quo was maintained.

 

No one deserves or emerges with credit from this mess.

Personally I too wanted Kumble out and knew his days as coach were numbered after his stupidity. Not only that at the time of his appointment I have mentioned and still hold that view that I dont want a "Indian Coach". He will be very good but a "Indian Coach" cant keep himself out of BCCI politics.

 

Under no circumstance I want to see Dravid,Tendu,Gangu and Jumbo all working for BCCI decsion making positions.

 

But that does not means Kumble is a villain. What if he made a statement that Kohli should  be replaced for CT embarrasment which was solely down to Kohlis failure. Belive me, A lot of fans would have bought that idea. So I am not going for character assasination of Kumble.

 

With Kohli, I know that I am angry because of the loss against Pakistan. I know time will heal. But he should and must learn from all this and never ever visit such pitfalls

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, maniac said:

Kumble originally never applied for the role...Ganguly persuaded him to apply from all accounts. So if he wanted to stick it to Shastri he could have picked any of the other applicants.

 

To say Laxman or even Ganguly had only ulterior motives to pick someone like Kumble is not right...it's downright disgusting....if that is true than there is not a single ex cricketer who is reliable and cares for the game.

 

I hope for the sake of Indian cricket it's not true

Ganguly baba ka haath

He 1st made choice of chappell now kumble

 

He shud avoid making choices

[mishra]

Enough on this. Just listen this song. For all dejected, divided fans

 

[BeautifulGame]

 

Kumble originally never applied for the role... />

 

 

Kumble never applied for the role because he was ineligible to apply.BCCI had laid down a condition that anyone applying should have coaching experience.

 

 

But then Ganguly and CAC forced BCCI to amend that criteria so that Kumble can apply.

 

 

So it's not by choice .

 

 

[Brainfade]

Disagree.  At the time he got the job, he fully deserved it from a qualification standpoint.  I think he even satisfied all the CoI issues. Just proved not to have the personality for it.