Why Has Dhoni Lost His ODI Mojo?: Aakash Chopra

[Lannister]

2 hours ago, jusarrived said:

if you look around , all the good talents in domestic are top order players . I was never a big fan of Samson , cos I felt he was too edgy or casual how ever you want to put it , but hes the only decent bet . 

 

Really? Pant has been playing as a middle-order batsman and KL too had his fair share of games playing at number 4 and you have Manish Pandey as well. The fact of the matter is at this stage any XYZ seems like a good option compared to Dhoni. 

Edited July 11, 2017 by Lannister

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 minutes ago, Lannister said:

 The fact of the matter is at this stage any XYZ seems like a good option compared to Dhoni. 

How ???

Pandey played NZ series were he failed, dhoni did better then him

Rahul failed in ENg series, dhoni made runs

Pant hasnt even gotten chances

 

They might do gr8 in future or even fail. But dnt jump to a conclusion that any XYZ is better.....if those XYZ are better so let them prove it 1st. 

[Lannister]

7 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

How ???

Pandey played NZ series were he failed, dhoni did better then him

Rahul failed in ENg series, dhoni made runs

Pant hasnt even gotten chances

 

They might do gr8 in future or even fail. But dnt jump to a conclusion that any XYZ is better.....if those XYZ are better so let them prove it 1st. 

He has been losing more number of games than the other way round and its really a shame that he's our most experienced player.

Rahul has already got a century in T20 and Dhoni has none in his whole career.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Lannister said:

He has been losing more number of games than the other way round and its really a shame that he's our most experienced player.

Rahul has already got a century in T20 and Dhoni has none in his whole career.

No one player looses u game, if he played a slow knock rest even didnt make runs.

Why dnt experience player loose u games......

Dhoni was never a good t20 player in 1st place. BTW kohli also doesnt have t20 international 100 and many in world doesnt

 

My xamples were of ODI, let these people 1st earn their places. Right now they are getting chances.....they havent owned a place. 

Dhoni still is producing number may be the impact isnt that gr8 there but still he produces number, doesnt cost u in field .

 

Its isnt all to gloomy like incase of yuvraj singh that u drop dhoni .

[Lannister]

11 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

No one player looses u game, if he played a slow knock rest even didnt make runs.

Why dnt experience player loose u games......

Dhoni was never a good t20 player in 1st place. BTW kohli also doesnt have t20 international 100 and many in world doesnt

 

My xamples were of ODI, let these people 1st earn their places. Right now they are getting chances.....they havent owned a place. 

Dhoni still is producing number may be the impact isnt that gr8 there but still he produces number, doesnt cost u in field .

 

Its isnt all to gloomy like incase of yuvraj singh that u drop dhoni .

The problem is his lack of intent shown and his inability to finish games like when he played 45(105) knock. These knocks are getting more frequent and that's not what you expect from your experienced player. He either gets out early or tuk-tuks his way to semi-average score which is not going to help the team either. 

[Lannister]

22 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Its isnt all to gloomy like incase of yuvraj singh that u drop dhoni .

Yuvi has been in and out of the team, while Dhoni has been getting a free ride and it seems there's no end to it. 

[Laaloo]

4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

No one player looses u game, if he played a slow knock rest even didnt make runs.

Why dnt experience player loose u games......

Dhoni was never a good t20 player in 1st place. BTW kohli also doesnt have t20 international 100 and many in world doesnt

 

My xamples were of ODI, let these people 1st earn their places. Right now they are getting chances.....they havent owned a place. 

Dhoni still is producing number may be the impact isnt that gr8 there but still he produces number, doesnt cost u in field .

 

Its isnt all to gloomy like incase of yuvraj singh that u drop dhoni .

Dhoni missed two stumpings last in the last game but yeah he doesnt cost us in the field. Yuvi has had more impact innings than dhoni in the last year or so. And that's pathetic. 

[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, jusarrived said:

Rohit does not have the game to play down the order , hes a 25 average batsmen if you dont open with him and that wont happen anyway . He will not be moved down the order for any player, bigger chance of Virat moving down . 

Jadhav , like i said earlier I have nothing against him , but hes a massive downgrade from our normal batting standards . I also have big doubts about him when under pressure . 

Pandey same as above , but only that hes a big stage player , but can he be consistent till the next WC to find himself in the squad . I am not sure . 

Rahul/Pant - unproven 

 

As for Dhoni , am not saying the way hes playing now hes making a difference , but even if hes at 80% of his game I would take him over couple of the players in contention now . 

 

The point is , yes we can replace him but we have much bigger holes to fill in this team , get that sorted first . What if Pant and rahul consistently fail for next 12 months ? The way we are selecting the team these days with no reasoning , I will not be surprised if we start looking at bringing back Raina in next few months . 

and how are you going to find Dhoni's replacement if you keep playing him. He is 36 and has no business playing for India anymore. This is the time to try replacements. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, Laaloo said:

Dhoni missed two stumpings last in the last game but yeah he doesnt cost us in the field. Yuvi has had more impact innings than dhoni in the last year or so. And that's pathetic. 

Even kohli does and most players in world do miss.....n if u call him unsafe like yuvraj singh well doctor ke pass jao aur apni biasness aur ankhon ka dono ka ilaaj krwao 

Last year or so, yuvraj comeback has only been in last 6 mnths and that to he has played 2 knocks only

[Ankit_sharma03]

7 hours ago, Lannister said:

Yuvi has been in and out of the team, while Dhoni has been getting a free ride and it seems there's no end to it. 

M S Dhoni (India) - ODI Cricket

Performance Analysis by Year  (calculated for matches beginning in named year)   Year Mat Inns NO 100s 50s 0s HS   Runs Avg S/R Ca St 2004 3 3 1 0 0 1 12 19 9.50 135.71 4 2 2005 27 24 6 2 3 1 183* 895 49.72 103.11 19 6 2006 29 26 6 0 7 0 96 821 41.05 92.98 33 3 2007 37 33 8 1 7 3 139* 1103 44.12 89.60 31 18 2008 29 26 7 1 8 0 109* 1097 57.74 82.30 38 11 2009 29 24 7 2 9 0 124 1198 70.47 85.57 26 11 2010 18 17 4 1 3 1 101* 600 46.15 78.95 19 4 2011 24 22 9 0 6 0 91* 764 58.77 89.88 17 6 2012 16 14 6 1 3 0 113* 524 65.50 87.63 12 5 2013 26 20 8 1 5 1 139* 753 62.75 96.05 21 13 2014 12 10 2 0 5 0 79* 418 52.25 92.07 7 6 2015 20 17 3 0 4 0 92* 640 45.71 86.84 27 3 2016 13 10 0 0 1 1 80 278 27.80 80.12 13 4 2017 13 9 3 1 3 0 134 386 64.33 86.35 11 5 Overall (14) 296 255 70 10 64 8 183* 9496 51.33 88.70 278 97   Free ride yea rite, u dnt drop a batsman for one poor year    Yuvraj singh lost his games years back

[SK_IH]

10 hours ago, jusarrived said:

Rohit does not have the game to play down the order , hes a 25 average batsmen if you dont open with him and that wont happen anyway . He will not be moved down the order for any player, bigger chance of Virat moving down . 

Jadhav , like i said earlier I have nothing against him , but hes a massive downgrade from our normal batting standards . I also have big doubts about him when under pressure . 

Pandey same as above , but only that hes a big stage player , but can he be consistent till the next WC to find himself in the squad . I am not sure . 

Rahul/Pant - unproven 

 

As for Dhoni , am not saying the way hes playing now hes making a difference , but even if hes at 80% of his game I would take him over couple of the players in contention now . 

 

The point is , yes we can replace him but we have much bigger holes to fill in this team , get that sorted first . What if Pant and rahul consistently fail for next 12 months ? The way we are selecting the team these days with no reasoning , I will not be surprised if we start looking at bringing back Raina in next few months . 

• i think rohit might be good in middle order as we cant have completely inexperienced middle order and also i think he can play spinners well in middle order,its pathetic he has been made the opener and playing selfish cricket upfront
• you are tagging everyone as unproven or not as good but some time or another they have to be tried and see what they can do ,if you remember the match pandey got 100 aganst aus it was pandey who finished the match ,dhoni was again struggling and was even dropped in that match at crucial point 
• look am also big fan of dhoni n respect him but you are overrating him by saying you take him in the team even if he is  80% and i would say if even raina replaces him thats not bad because he will not play a defensive game in the middle order which dhoni does these days
• why you overlooking the fact dhoni is struggling big time to plan a chase these days,he wastes too many balls and is not good enough to make up now.also we should lose matches with trying something new now and you are underestimating some of these players,let them get the chance they will perform

[Shunya]

3 hours ago, Laaloo said:

Dhoni missed two stumpings last in the last game but yeah he doesnt cost us in the field. Yuvi has had more impact innings than dhoni in the last year or so. And that's pathetic. 

1 stumping chance missed - the first one of Chris Gayle. Difficult one but expected from MSD who is a kickass keeper for spinners. Shame if you cannot believe he is the best in business. The 2nd one was a deflection from pad which is impossible for a keeper to judge when standing up.

Not that any of these matter when you have an agenda. Good that you openly display it now.

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

M S Dhoni (India) - ODI Cricket

Performance Analysis by Year  (calculated for matches beginning in named year)   Year Mat Inns NO 100s 50s 0s HS   Runs Avg S/R Ca St 2004 3 3 1 0 0 1 12 19 9.50 135.71 4 2 2005 27 24 6 2 3 1 183* 895 49.72 103.11 19 6 2006 29 26 6 0 7 0 96 821 41.05 92.98 33 3 2007 37 33 8 1 7 3 139* 1103 44.12 89.60 31 18 2008 29 26 7 1 8 0 109* 1097 57.74 82.30 38 11 2009 29 24 7 2 9 0 124 1198 70.47 85.57 26 11 2010 18 17 4 1 3 1 101* 600 46.15 78.95 19 4 2011 24 22 9 0 6 0 91* 764 58.77 89.88 17 6 2012 16 14 6 1 3 0 113* 524 65.50 87.63 12 5 2013 26 20 8 1 5 1 139* 753 62.75 96.05 21 13 2014 12 10 2 0 5 0 79* 418 52.25 92.07 7 6 2015 20 17 3 0 4 0 92* 640 45.71 86.84 27 3 2016 13 10 0 0 1 1 80 278 27.80 80.12 13 4 2017 13 9 3 1 3 0 134 386 64.33 86.35 11 5 Overall (14) 296 255 70 10 64 8 183* 9496 51.33 88.70 278 97   Free ride yea rite, u dnt drop a batsman for one poor year    Yuvraj singh lost his games years back

 

The main issue with Dhoni's batting these days is his strike rate during the first 40 or 50  balls.

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by express bowling

[Kohlifan]

13 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

The main issue with Dhoni's batting these days is his strike rate during the first 40 or 50  balls.

 

Yes, beside now every team keep their best fielders inside the circle. He seems like playing the ball directly to them, before he keeps the ball in empty space and take a run. His hand eye co-ordination has gone down.

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

The main issue with Dhoni's batting these days is his strike rate during the first 40 or 50  balls.

 

Yes not only that there are actually more issues as well like struggling against spinners taking ball away, strategy of leaving till last and increase in no of dot balls, self beilief most of all. 

 

My point is despite many issue he is still contributing in many ways and numbers arent bad to or else when ppl loose form their numbers hit rock bottom.

 

Now the debate is has he lost enough that he shud be taken out of the future plans. For me he still contributes a lot and he cant be outrightly thrown out . He has been extremely consistent as we can see with the numbers and hence he needs that backing. His knock that day was sad but still he tried , yes his ideas of taking it to last over isnt effective for long due to struggle but still he tried. 

 

He wasnt doing well in wt20 lastbyr or even nz home series yet tried more then then the likes of rahane rohit. 

 

Yes his impact has gone missing, but still has won few games....only a game before that slow knock he played well. There is no denial about his struggle

But has he become a really the biggest problem....dnt think so specially the way here people are finding a blame on everything on him. Has someone smashed so many runs that dhoni is blocking his way....hasnt happened yet. 

 

Even throwing in all youngster in one team isnt right and it will only add burden to kohli as batsman n captain. In test rahane, ashwin, pujara, vijay all are set unlike odi were only rohit seems set who has his own issues and same with dhawan. 

 

How to deal with dhoni, either stick with him hoping he gets better or dropping him for few series..no idea how wud it work. But he isnt the biggest problem as of now that we r looking to dump so easily....

[express bowling]

21 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Yes not only that there are actually more issues as well like struggling against spinners taking ball away, strategy of leaving till last and increase in no of dot balls, self beilief most of all. 

 

My point is despite many issue he is still contributing in many ways and numbers arent bad to or else when ppl loose form their numbers hit rock bottom.

 

Now the debate is has he lost enough that he shud be taken out of the future plans. For me he still contributes a lot and he cant be outrightly thrown out . He has been extremely consistent as we can see with the numbers and hence he needs that backing. His knock that day was sad but still he tried , yes his ideas of taking it to last over isnt effective for long due to struggle but still he tried. 

 

He wasnt doing well in wt20 lastbyr or even nz home series yet tried more then then the likes of rahane rohit. 

 

Yes his impact has gone missing, but still has won few games....only a game before that slow knock he played well. There is no denial about his struggle

But has he become a really the biggest problem....dnt think so specially the way here people are finding a blame on everything on him. Has someone smashed so many runs that dhoni is blocking his way....hasnt happened yet. 

 

Even throwing in all youngster in one team isnt right and it will only add burden to kohli as batsman n captain. In test rahane, ashwin, pujara, vijay all are set unlike odi were only rohit seems set who has his own issues and same with dhawan. 

 

How to deal with dhoni, either stick with him hoping he gets better or dropping him for few series..no idea how wud it work. But he isnt the biggest problem as of now that we r looking to dump so easily....

 

This debate will rage on and there will be some valid points from both sides --

 

My take on this issue is --

 

• Whether Dhoni is played or dropped after some time, in either case we must get new keeper-batsmen ready to cover for him if needed.
• If Dhoni plays, he has to bat at No.4.    His SR is not suitable for modern day ODIs if he bats at No.5 or No.6.
• We cannot have too many batsmen in the team who are slow starters. If Dhoni is played then we need a new batsman at No.5 who is a fast starter.  Yuvraj won't do.
• Pant does have the ability to address all the above issues, in theory, if he bats at No.5. Needs to be given a fair run ASAP.
• Finally.... there is very little practical chance of Dhoni being removed from the ODI team if he wants to play on. 

Edited July 12, 2017 by express bowling

[Laaloo]

5 hours ago, Shunya said:

1 stumping chance missed - the first one of Chris Gayle. Difficult one but expected from MSD who is a kickass keeper for spinners. Shame if you cannot believe he is the best in business. The 2nd one was a deflection from pad which is impossible for a keeper to judge when standing up.

Not that any of these matter when you have an agenda. Good that you openly display it now.

 

He is a very good keeper against the spinners. But I don't raise my pom poms in the air when he makes regulation catches or stumpings. 

[Sujithmb13]

Frankly If yuvi didn't have cancer he would have come close to Sachin in terms of Motm,series and overtaken Dada in terms of Runs.There was a thread in ICF right after d WC in those days.Will he overtake Sachin and becomes the best odi player after Kapil.What a fall from d grace.In those days I genuinely believed he was more talented than Kohli and Dhoni.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Sujithmb13

[Pollack]

17 hours ago, Sujithmb13 said:

Frankly If yuvi didn't have cancer he would have come close to Sachin in terms of Motm,series and overtaken Dada in terms of Runs.There was a thread in ICF right after d WC in those days.Will he overtake Sachin and becomes the best odi player after Kapil.What a fall from d grace.In those days I genuinely believed he was more talented than Kohli and Dhoni.

Yuvraj is still more talented than Kohli and dhoni(seriously?). Talent doesn't fade away. Form, fitness and reflexes do.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Pollack

[Pollack]

20 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

This debate will rage on and there will be some valid points from both sides --

 

My take on this issue is --

 

• Whether Dhoni is played or dropped after some time, in either case we must get new keeper-batsmen ready to cover for him if needed.
• If Dhoni plays, he has to bat at No.4.    His SR is not suitable for modern day ODIs if he bats at No.5 or No.6.
• We cannot have too many batsmen in the team who are slow starters. If Dhoni is played then we need a new batsman at No.5 who is a fast starter.  Yuvraj won't do.
• Pant does have the ability to address all the above issues, in theory, if he bats at No.5. Needs to be given a fair run ASAP.
• Finally.... there is very little practical chance of Dhoni being removed from the ODI team if he wants to play on. 

No. 4 is the worst position for dhoni currently. He should bat at no. 7 with full authority to go full Monty.He hasn't lost his hitting ability. He has lost his brain. No intent to hit is ridiculous. All those talks of playing care free cricket is hogwash. He still cares for his average and want to build innings and play safe at any position in batting order.Care free approach may cause drop in average and people questioning him this time with the support of stats. At least with this approach he gets to maintain average(screw team) for dhoni lobby to say look at his average and he is second highest scorer etc.