300 for Ashwin in tests : Fastest to get there.

[rkt.india]

57 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Fred Trueman as well. Lillee was probably the first great fast bowler of the color TV era.

Fred Trueman was not considered fast.

[putrevus]

9 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

how many centuries will he have to score to be called alrounder by yours truly.

What good attack has Ashwin scored 100 against.Kapil Dev scored runs against very best attacks. His last hundred against a rampaging Donald with one good hand is a hundred even a top order batsman would die for, Ashwin while good is no Kapil Dev.

 

Stats don't always tell whole story.

   

[Jimmy Cliff]

8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Fred Trueman was not considered fast.

By whom exactly?

[putrevus]

Hope he reaches fastest 400 also.

[rkt.india]

31 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What good attack has Ashwin scored 100 against.Kapil Dev scored runs against very best attacks. His last hundred against a rampaging Donald with one good hand is a hundred even a top order batsman would die for, Ashwin while good is no Kapil Dev.

 

Stats don't always tell whole story.

   

it is not the attacks but the circumstance and conditions that matter. On a flat pitch, any bowler can look bad irrespective of how great the bowler is and in helpful conditions and pressure situation, even Lakmal can look a world class bowler, classic case in Eden.  Names are overrated, tbh.    

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

it is not the attacks but the circumstance and conditions that matter. On a flat pitch, any bowler can look bad irrespective of how great the bowler is and in helpful conditions and pressure situation, even Lakmal can look a world class bowler, classic case in Eden.  Names are overrated, tbh.    

Kapil Dev scored his last hundred when scoreboard was 39/6 in Port Elizabeth , he scored 129 out of total 215 .Next highest score was 17. Most of Kapil dev's runs were scored when his team was under pressure.Even in tied it was his his century which made it possible to avoid follow on.

 

That is why I laugh when people say Imran Khan was better all rounder than Kapil.Only Botham in his peak had better all round ability than Kapil. Unlike Botham Kapil did very against peak WI team both with bat and ball.

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by putrevus

[mishra]

[mishra]

Just now, putrevus said:

Kapil Dev scored his last hundred when scoreboard was 39/6. Most of Kapil dev's runs were scored when his team was under pressure.Even in tied it was his his century which made it possible to avoid follow on.

 

 

paaji was sehwag+. No pressure at all

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Kapil Dev scored his last hundred when scoreboard was 39/6. Most of Kapil dev's runs were scored when his team was under pressure.Even in tied it was his his century which made it possible to avoid follow on.

 

 

So how does that prevent Ashwin to not be called as alrounder? Even Ashwin's runs are mostly under pressure. that 100 in WI, we were 125/5.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

So how does that prevent Ashwin to not be called as alrounder? Even Ashwin's runs are mostly under pressure. that 100 in WI, we were 125/5.

Even Bhajji scored hundred against NZ when score was 15/5 it does not make Bhajji an all rounder.Ashwin is good but he is not a top tier all rounder yet , he needs to score more against better attacks.

 

All his hundreds are against WI which honestly are not a great bowling unit.Ashwin has ability he just needs to do it against good bowling attacks.

[rkt.india]

Just now, putrevus said:

Even Bhajji scored hundred against NZ when score was 15/5 it does not make Bhajji an all rounder.Ashwin is good but he is not a top tier all rounder yet , he needs to score more against better attacks.

 

All his hundreds are against WI which honestly are not a great bowling unit.Ashwin has ability he just needs to do it against good bowling attacks.

Ashwin is averaging in 30s with the bat with 4 100s and 11 50s, enough tests already played. Even if he retires today, he will be an Indian great. Most of the bowling alrounders have averaged in 30s whether it is Kapil, Botham, Imran, all of them. While Bhajji averaged 18 in tests. You are talking Kapil and other bowling alrounders averaged 50.

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Ashwin is averaging in 30s with the bat with 4 100s and 11 50s, enough tests already played. Even if he retires today, he will be an Indian great. Most of the bowling alrounders have averaged in 30s whether it is Kapil, Botham, Imran, all of them. While Bhajji averaged 18 in tests. You are talking Kapil and other bowling alrounders averaged 50.

you don't need to average 50 to be great all rounder.Ashwin has the average but looking at his batting he is not in same league as Kapil dev.

 

Thilan Samerveera averages more than Gordon Greenidge but it does not make him a better batsman than Gordon.So average is the not only yardstick to measure greatness.

 

It is same thing as speed guns bowling is more than speed gun readings.

Edited November 27, 2017 by putrevus

[rkt.india]

14 minutes ago, putrevus said:

you don't need to average 50 to be great all rounder.Ashwin has the average but looking at his batting he is not in same league as Kapil dev.

 

Thilan Samerveera averages more than Gordon Greenidge but it does not make him a better batsman than Gordon.So average is the not only yardstick to measure greatness.

 

It is same thing as speed guns bowling is more than speed gun readings.

do did i say he was greater alrounder than Kapil. He can still be an alrounder without being greater than Kapil. Any bowler who is averaging 32 after 54 tests with 4 100s and 11 50s and most of those runs scored in pressure situation will be considered an alrounder.  TBH, Ashwin is a better batsman than Kapil technically but he is a bowler first.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

do did i say he was greater alrounder than Kapil. He can still be an alrounder without being greater than Kapil. Any bowler who is averaging 32 after 54 tests with 4 100s and 11 50s and most of those runs scored in pressure situation will be considered an alrounder.  TBH, Ashwin is a better batsman than Kapil technically but he is a bowler first.

Kapil Dev like Sehwag did better than many technically correct batsmen than them for one reason, they had clear head on what they wanted to do and they went about doing it without fear of failure.

 

 

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Kapil Dev like Sehwag did better than many technically correct batsmen than them for one reason, they had clear head on what they wanted to do and they went about doing it without fear of failure.

 

 

Kapil averaged 31, so, he was good, played some great innings but not consistently. 

[putrevus]

Just now, rkt.india said:

Kapil averaged 31, so, he was good, played some great innings but not consistently. 

You don't expect your no7 to be consistent, is Ashwin consistent. Especially in days of Kapil tail was non existent. Like Sehwag Kapil also under achieved with bat.

[Laaloo]

Great achievement for Ashwin. Now he needs to win us a series in South Africa so I can bump the my thread.

[maniac]

A HTB no doubt but that word is thrown around so demeaningly....has won us a lot of series against big teams and that’s what matters...so definitely already an Indian ATG and the 2nd best allrounder from

India after Kapil.

Edited November 27, 2017 by maniac

[Austin 3:!6]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

how many centuries will he have to score to be called alrounder by yours truly.

Are you seriously comparing Kapil's batting with Ashwin? Kapil was a genuine all rounder and his batting was better than the likes of Imran Khan and equal to Botham. Ashwin is a fantastic spinner who could bat a bit. Lets not get overboard.

 

Pandya has potential to match upto Kapil but for that his bowling needs to improve 10folds.

[Gollum]

Ashwin is no Kapil Dev and when I say that I mean there will never be another Kapil Dev, stats don't do him justice. Modern Indian cricketers rest on the shoulders of 3 giants - Gavaskar, Kapil and Sachin, these 3 can never be emulated again. But Ashwin is a damn good cricketer and our greatest match winner since Virender Sehwag, possibly these 2 have won us max number of tests in our cricketing history. Even if Ashiwn hangs his boots today, he will retire as an Indian ATG but if he keeps up even 80% of this performance for another 4-5 years he will be a legit Hall of Famer.