Have we found 21st century spin quartet?

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, Vilander said:

jadeja is an other guy who gets hate because of CSK and that too in tests his strong suit lol 

Jadeja gets hate because of costing us 2 crucial games which resulted us in getting knocked out of 2 WT20s.

 

Also remember the famous Sachin chase against Australia where he almost won the game singlehandedly chasing a 350 score, Jadeja brainfart resulted in our loss that game as well.

 

Recently the Pandya run out

 

Not everything had a racial tone to it lol.

 

Gun test player but the bias comes from all

of the above 

[Vilander]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Jadeja gets hate because of costing us 2 crucial games which resulted us in getting knocked out of 2 WT20s.

 

Also remember the famous Sachin chase against Australia where he almost won the game singlehandedly chasing a 350 score, Jadeja brainfart resulted in our loss that game as well.

 

Recently the Pandya run out

 

Not everything had a racial tone to it lol.

 

Gun test player but the bias comes from all

of the above 

true he started poorly, but he is phenominal in tests at home. Its tough to replicate it even if you are a god given talent wrist spinner, besides how are we to be sure that current wrist spin twins can replicate Jadeja or Ashwin in tests, try them for sure but they have to prove themselves.

 

There is no racial tone insinuated here,Jadeja is Indian. Tamils are same race but distinct sub nationality, there is never any racial quesiton in Indian prejeduice, its more tribal favoritism/ mob hatered like you see in baboons or rhesus monkeys for instance, so I like to treat prejeduiced Indians like monkeys basically.

[maniac]

4 minutes ago, Vilander said:

true he started poorly, but he is phenominal in tests at home. Its tough to replicate it even if you are a god given talent wrist spinner, besides how are we to be sure that current wrist spin twins can replicate Jadeja or Ashwin in tests, try them for sure but they have to prove themselves.

 

There is no racial tone insinuated here,Jadeja is Indian. Tamils are same race but distinct sub nationality, there is never any racial quesiton in Indian prejeduice, its more tribal favoritism/ mob hatered like you see in baboons or rhesus monkeys for instance, so I like to treat prejeduiced Indians like monkeys basically.

We can’t....but that is ICF for you....who here hasn’t been guilty of over reacting and asking for a total overhaul

 

Dont want to get into the whole prejudice and race debate 

Edited February 8, 2018 by maniac

[Vilander]

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

Dont want to get into the whole prejudice and race debate 

same here man. 

[Vilander]

but on topic just for lulz

 

get a spinning track and play all these guys and Shami in a home test against Aus or SA lol.

[Gollum]

Good that we have our bases covered at least in this department...recall the drought in talent after Kumble's decline, we basically had to carry the non chucking version of Bhajji because of lack of alternative. Having said that Kuldeep and Chahal  have a long way to go before they can prove themselves as good enough for test cricket....their FC stats aren't impressive. I don't base my observations only on stats, although their FC stats are identical I rate Kuldeep as a better prospect, got to take him to Australia later this year. Both are still quite young, hope to see them step up in red ball cricket in due course of time .

 

20th century quartet was formed because of lack of pacemen. Often you had Abid Ali, Solkar, Gavaskar and Pataudi open the bowling just to take out the shine off the ball. Watching Ashwin and Jaddu with the new ball makes me think, was it really necessary to take the shine off on traditional Indian decks, quality spinners like Bedi and Prasanna would have enjoyed the bite of the new ball on our wickets....Abid Ali wasn't entirely useless with the ball but Solkar, Sunny, Pataudi . And the man who made it possible the late Mansur Ali Khan Pataudi the finest Indian test captain till date no matter what the stats say. His team had catchers comparable to our present unit, so many matches lost because of inept catching...Farookh Engineer for all the hype (for his batting well deserved, keeping not quite.....Budhi Kunderan was unfairly treated IMO) dropped Redpath 6 times in Chepauk (1969 home series against Bill Lawry's Australia) all of them off Prasanna's bowling after we had reduced them to 20/6...woh bakchodi nahi pelte toh 2004 tak 44 saal ka unbeaten streak chal raha hota unpar. Funny thing is quartet and Pataudi loved each other to bits, they didn't share the same rapport with Wadekar (except Venkat ofc, he was chummy pals with Wadekar). Ironically it was under Wadekar that they delivered test series wins in WI and Eng for the 1st time in Indian cricket history in 1971. However Wadekar's honeymoon ended in the summer of 42 and Pataudi came back as captain to lead the quartet one last time, a glorious series against Lloyd's young guns which we lost 2-3, final test going WI's way in the last session of day 6 !!! MAK's returns with the bat were forgettable but his 36 studded with 5 back to back 4s of Vanburn Holder still holds a special place in the hearts of old timers of Eden Gardens. Topic is about the quartet but man what a life Pataudi had. A regal prince, son of a centurion for England who had a public fallout with Jardine over bodyline, a multi talented sportsman who excelled at cricket (very good in hockey and football, thousands would turn up in REC Bhopal whenever he took the hockey field), a brilliant batsman who averaged 65+ in FC before losing his eye in an accident, astute cricket thinker, Muslim captain in a newly formed Hindu majority India, style icon, 1st superstar of Indian cricket, husband of the 1st high profile bikini babe cum Bolywood star actress of India (love jihad anyone? ), after retirement remained hidden from public eye until the blackbuck poaching case........if someone deserves a biopic in India it is him. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Gollum

[Singh bling]

Our pace quartet

 

Bhuvi -- Andy Roberts

Shami -- Michael holding

Bumrah --- Malcom marshall

Ishant Sharma -- Joel garner

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Singh bling said:

Our pace quartet

 

Bhuvi -- Andy Roberts

Shami -- Michael holding

Bumrah --- Malcom marshall

Ishant Sharma -- Joel garner

 

 

 

 

Viv Richards says that Shami and Marshall are similar in terms of pace, height, bounce and swing  ( although Marshall was obviously the superior wicket-taker )

 

Bumrah would be more comparable with Roberts.... similar height, pace, bounce, change of pace, seam movement

 

Ishant is comparable to Garner in terms of pace and height ( 2 " or 3"  shorter )   ... but gets far lesser bounce ... and his bowling average is almost double.   

 

There was no Bhuvi-type swing bowler in that WI team ... and there is no Holding-type fast-bowler in this team  ( but both have good bowling averages in tests )  ...  Umesh is a fast bowler but shorter, less bouncy and has a much higher bowling average.

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by express bowling

[Pollack]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

really and Ashwin and Jadeja are not exceptional ? or Outstanding ? 

No. Imo not enough to be called 21st century spinners. The fact that we need to attach qualifiers like "subcontinent" to show how good they are explains everything.

[maniac]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

 

Viv Richards says that Shami and Marshall are similar in terms of pace, height, bounce and swing  ( although Marshall was obviously the superior wicket-taker )

 

Bumrah would be more comparable with Roberts.... similar height, pace, bounce, change of pace, seam movement

 

Ishant is comparable to Garner in terms of pace and height ( 2 " or 3"  shorter )   ... but gets far lesser bounce ... and his bowling average is almost double.   

 

There was no Bhuvi-type swing bowler in that WI team ... and there is no Holding-type fast-bowler in this team  ( but both have good bowling averages in tests )  ...  Umesh is a fast bowler but shorter, less bouncy and has a much higher bowling average.

 

Garner was not really express....he had the awkward bounce similar to Ambrose or Walsh...Ishu is quicker than all 3 of them 

 

Having said that I saw this documentary about Ambrose where Dean Jones pissed him off and he ended up ripping  through the Aussies in pure rage..in that even Walsh was saying how Ambrose was bowling military medium and then he was so passed that he was bowling express all of a sudden.

 

I believe both Walsh and Ambrose were capable of bowling 140+ early on in their careers but more often than not for control used to bowl in the early to mid 130s. More in the McGrath mould than a Donald mould.

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by maniac

[express bowling]

14 minutes ago, maniac said:

Garner was not really express....he had the awkward bounce similar to Ambrose or Walsh...Ishu is quicker than all 3 of them 

 

Having said that I saw this documentary about Ambrose where Dean Jones pissed him off and he ended up ripping  through the Aussies in pure rage..in that even Walsh was saying how Ambrose was bowling military medium and then he was so passed that he was bowling express all of a sudden.

 

I believe both Walsh and Ambrose were capable of bowling 140+ early on in their careers but more often than not for control used to bowl in the early to mid 130s. More in the McGrath mould than a Donald mould.

 

 

Agree to a large extent regarding Garner , Ambrose and Walsh.

 

Only thing is ... even Ishant is not express and he varies between fast and fast-medium.

[Mosher]

7 hours ago, maniac said:

Garner was not really express....he had the awkward bounce similar to Ambrose or Walsh...Ishu is quicker than all 3 of them 

 

Having said that I saw this documentary about Ambrose where Dean Jones pissed him off and he ended up ripping  through the Aussies in pure rage..in that even Walsh was saying how Ambrose was bowling military medium and then he was so passed that he was bowling express all of a sudden.

 

I believe both Walsh and Ambrose were capable of bowling 140+ early on in their careers but more often than not for control used to bowl in the early to mid 130s. More in the McGrath mould than a Donald mould.

 

 

 

Yeah Ambrose was *ing pissed. Dean Jones probably shat his pants that day

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Zaheer, Kapil, Srinath, Shami even this can't match pace quartet of West Indies. India has not produced pace bowlers who can run through sides. Occasionally they would do. Not consistently. 

[SUMO]

Develop pace quartet with all of them capable of hitting 145 and 1 or 2 being a left armer.

Bumrah

Shami

Nagarkoti/avesh

Khalil