So where is the line for 'Freedom of Speech' in a Democracy?

[Tibarn]

32 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@Tibarn @Stradlater @sergio04  @Ranvir (OP of the thread in question I think) ....this is really getting on my nerves now. ICF was never like this, the least admins/mods can do here is inform us about the contentious parts, maybe edit some of the stuff so that there is no clash with forum policy/guidelines. Why delete an entire thread altogether, some of us waste 20-30 minutes, maybe more to write a detailed post and boom the thread is gone. And the subject matter in the thread in question was legit.

Honestly, from my view it has always been like this, since I joined. The whole of the "forum guidelines" is a joke. When I have asked the mods/admins before about what is and isn't allowed to be posted, as they were liberally deleting some of my posts, the only thing they say is that one can post freely until someone reports a post or topic. Literally anyone can whinge about anything and they will delete a post, no matter how informative it is. Evens posts without harsh language or what could be construed as inflammatory content can just randomly disappear because someone decided to complain.  

 

 I've seen people complain about the forum posts quality going down, and it's obvious why. What exactly is the point of positively contributing to a forum when any idiot can get entire threads deleted or shut down. 

 

32 minutes ago, Gollum said:

To those who claim to be liberal and open minded, why so much discomfort when a topic which you might find uncomfortable is raised by others. If you are open minded, put forth your arguments, debate, shut up the other party....else stay out of the thread. Why force your echo chamber decision to prevent other posters from expressing their FOS?

That would require actual effort. Why actually engage people with different thoughts than oneself? It's far easier to morally-grandstand and get posts deleted. Such pathetic people lack the mental acuity to have an intelligent discussion, so I guess one shouldn't expect any better. 

 

Unfortunately for them, India isn't ICF. You can shut people up on this forum, but it won't work everywhere. Neither on the internet nor in the real world. 

 

I may make a thread on DFI on this topic just for the lulz now. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Tibarn

[Gollum]

15 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Coincidently, I had come across this being pitched as one of the national security threats.  Wanted to bring it up. It becomes too illiberal to talk about it. But these ostrichs don't know they are the biggest threats to our existence. The population control bill being discussed by Modi govt is being seen as a front to address this issue. 

A real pity it was deleted. That was a rich topic, with many povs, historical analysis/events/data, models/stats etc. People were eager to participate but then some admin took a decision which I strongly object. ICF has numerous flaws but one thing going its way for so long had been FOE, threads weren't dumped just because some posters got offended. Worst case we wouldn't respond to certain topics, but delete->no way. 

 

Underlying culture of this forum is to debate, bring various opinions, things sometimes heat up but hey we Indians love to argue. If admins want to take a different course even the few redeeming features of ICF will be at risk. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Gollum

[Tibarn]

17 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Bhai you and me both know that certain admins *cough* lizard *cough* with special love for peacefuls have been on it for some time now and this wasn't an one time occurrence. 

Remember last year when a poster threatened to file a FIR against us if we didn't tone down on our right wing rhetoric? 

WTF, when and who was this? 

 

That sounds funny, do you remember what thread it was?

[Stradlater]

2 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

WTF, when and who was this? 

 

That sounds funny, do you remember what thread it was?

It had something to do with the Kashmiri separatists IIRC and I think we endorsed their brutal suppression by the army or something like that. 

The poster in question was Outsider. 

[Gollum]

9 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

WTF, when and who was this? 

 

That sounds funny, do you remember what thread it was?

'The Outsider'...a lunatic LW asshole who is close to site owners.

Threatened to file FIR against me and Strad because we dared to make our displeasure about JNU tukde tukde gang known, especially Umar Khalid...exact thread I don't remember but pretty sure it was something anti-national (Kashmir separatism) involving Khalid and his father's link with SIMI. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Gollum

[Ranvir]

36 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Fertility rate of Muslim community, how they take over states/societies by population explosion. OP Ranvir is British, he was quoting examples in Britain. Then other regions, posters were eager to participate, and then the thread vanished. 

It is a genuine concern for me. Whenever I see a Muslim woman in her 30s she has a minimum of 3 children even if she and her husband is from an educated background. All other groups are having two or less. I seriously worry about the future. Even when they are 10% of an area they demand halal food which is then pushed onto all of us.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Ranvir

[Stradlater]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

'The Outsider'...a lunatic LW asshole who is close to site owners.

Threatened to file FIR against me and Strad because we dared to make our displeasure about JNU tukde tukde gang known, especially Umar Khalid...exact thread I don't remember but pretty sure it was something anti-national (Kashmir separatism) involving Khalid and his father's link with SIMI. 

Ha that one. He deliberately put words in our mouth that we were advocating genocide of Muslims in India just because of our stance of dealing with separatists and terrorists with a iron fist.

[sergio04]

33 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

Honestly, from my view it has always been like this, since I joined. The whole of the "forum guidelines" is a joke. When I have asked the mods/admins before about what is and isn't allowed to be posted, as they were liberally deleting some of my posts, the only thing they say is that one can post freely until someone reports a post or topic. Literally anyone can whinge about anything and they will delete a post, no matter how informative it is. Evens posts without harsh language or what could be construed as inflammatory content can just randomly disappear because someone decided to complain.  

 

 I've seen people complain about the forum posts quality going down, and it's obvious why. What exactly is the point of positively contributing to a forum when any idiot can get entire threads deleted or shut down. 

 

That would require actual effort. Why actually engage people with different thoughts than oneself? It's far easier to morally-grandstand and get posts deleted. Such pathetic people lack the mental acuity to have an intelligent discussion, so I guess one shouldn't expect any better. 

 

Unfortunately for them, India isn't ICF. You can shut people up on this forum, but it won't work everywhere. Neither on the internet nor in the real world. 

 

I may make a thread on DFI on this topic just for the lulz now. 

Indian defence forum per start kro yeh thread

[diga]

Is the lizard back?? 

[maniac]

Freedom of speech should not have any limits but that concept works in developed nations.

 

In a country like ours there have to be a lot of  boundaries. There is no value of life. You can instigate any group of people to kill on caste and religion. Lot of jobless,lukkha type folk who have nothing to lose and thanks to our system so far nothing to gain either  . Look at Arab countries, they fund all the terrorism in the world but almost all terrorists come from Pakistan and African countries, that is because they have a lot to lose.

[javier26]

39 minutes ago, Ranvir said:

It is a genuine concern for me. Whenever I see a Muslim woman in her 30s she has a minimum of 3 children even if she and her husband is from an educated background. All other groups are having two or less. I seriously worry about the future. Even when they are 10% of an area they demand halal food which is then pushed onto all of us.

 

 

Gone are the days of Jihad and subjugation of infidels through Wars and Swords,  Population Jihad is the new  warfare albeit a slow process which may take a long time but will be sufficient to achieve all Islamic goals in the future. 

 

 

[Ranvir]

4 minutes ago, javier26 said:

Gone are the days of Jihad and subjugation of infidels through Wars and Swords,  Population Jihad is the new  warfare albeit a slow process which may take a long time but will be sufficient to achieve all Islamic goals in the future. 

 

 

To be fair I'm not sure if they do have so many kids for this reason but the outcome of them having a large population is what the diagram above shows.

 

As a teenager I used to find it amusing but now as an adult it is alarming.

[Moochad]

I don't know what went on or who was involved, but people need to grow up. So long as nothing violence related or abusive is going on in a thread they should be open. Just avoid threads that bother you, or better yet correct people when they are wrong. How exactly are you supposed to convince people without engaging them?> 

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, sergio04 said:

Indian defence forum per start kro yeh thread

I was not able to access this thread as well for a while and I thought it was deleted too. I guess it is time to move on. Will check out other forums.

[diga]

Pollution by libtards and over population by peacefuls

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Ranvir said:

To be fair I'm not sure if they do have so many kids for this reason but the outcome of them having a large population is what the diagram above shows.

 

As a teenager I used to find it amusing but now as an adult it is alarming.

You have every right to be alarmed. Any sensible person will find the situation alarming.

 

Macedonia had 24% Muslim population in 1961, became 40% in 2011. It is projected by PEW that the Muslim population will be 56% in 2050....all because of difference in fertility rate. Orthodox Christians will be reduced to a precariously placed minority, they have already started panicking. Some of the toughest people in the world feeling the heat and many Indians laugh when some of the Sangh leaders in India read the situation similarly. One of the most chilled out societies in the Balkans, and now increasingly becoming sharia compliant, political Islam taking roots there aided by favorable population balance. Same is the case in Bosnia Herzegovina. 

 

The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050 (PEW Research Centre)

 

 

In Chechnya and Dagestan similar situation. Once upon a time you had a significant minority there called Cossacks, then they faced the same treatment as Kashmiri Pandits and Sikhs in Kashmir valley. Followed by high fertility rate of a certain community compared to rest of Russia... now Chechnya is 99% Muslim and only one church left standing in their capital city, Grozny. The Chechens  contribute nothing to Russian economy, only take, take and take. Islamic terrorism, violence, regressive society, subjugation of women, freeloading etc are common features there....a real burden on Russian society and national resources. 

 

KGB, Russian military, Putin couldn't save the Christians, what hope do the meek Indian and British govts have? Only China has population control of said community figured out. This isn't a France, India, Kenya, Sweden (land of Vikings LOL) or UK specific problem, it is everywhere, we refuse to acknowledge it and hence putting our future generations at risk. Nothing wrong to call it out, excessive PCness will take us nowhere.

 

Meanwhile this is happening in India, well researched pieces. Your assertion that it will take centuries isn't consistent with the authors' various projection models. 40-50 years max. 

 

Will Assam be Muslim majority in the next 40 years?

 

Kerala and South Tamil Nadu – A Case of Hindu Fade Out

 

A Demographic Warning for West Bengal

 

Made a much longer post in your thread but will leave it here. Who knows they may delete this thread as well? 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Gollum

[Tibarn]

2 hours ago, sergio04 said:

Indian defence forum per start kro yeh thread

I made it, a bare-bones version. I will check it in a day to see what kind of discussion has happened there.

 

People should join DFI to discuss the topic if they want. Random liberandus have less leeway there to get anything that hurts their sensitive feelings deleted. 

 

[Gollum]

Quote

Russian/Nat

 

As Chechens prepare to vote on Monday for a pro-independence president and parliament, ethnic Russians still living in the breakaway republic are worried about their future.

 

Tens of thousands of Russians - many of them Cossacks - fled the republic after its 1991 independence declaration and during the war that followed.

 

The remaining Cossacks are alarmed by the prospect of an independent Islamic republic.

 

They swear they will go to war rather than let their historic territories slip from Russian control.

 

 

 

When Russian troops withdrew from Chechnya late last year, armed Chechens took their place on the streets.

 

But ethnic Russians in the northern village of Chernokozovo feel anything but safe.

 

The Russians living in the Naurskaya and Shelkovskoi regions are descendants of Tsarist Cossacks who were sent here to protect Russia's southern border from the wild tribes of the Caucasus mountains.

 

Under the Soviet Union these lands along the Terek River were part of the Chechen Republic.

 

Then, Cossacks and Chechens lived side by side with few problems.

 

But when Chechnya declared independence in 1991 the peaceful life started to crumble.

 

Before the war Russians made up about 40 per cent of Chechnya's population.

 

Now only 10 to 15 per cent is Russian and the number is falling.

 

Every day, three or four families pass through this post on the Russian-Chechen border, leaving for good.

 

They are reluctant to go but too scared to stay.

 

SOUNDBITE: (Russian)

"It's my home. I was born and raised here. My ancestors are from here. My grandparents

are buried here. It's very difficult to leave. So far we're just moving our stuff out bit by bit - whatever is left. I'll stay as long as I've still got things here."

SUPER CAPTION: Nina Sokolova

 

Tension is rising as lawlessness increases.

 

Since Russian troops started pulling out last August bandits have taken over, terrorising the locals.

 

The ataman - or leader - of Chernokozovo calls a meeting to discuss the community's future.

 

They say the situation is hopeless.

 

They are sick of living in fear, wondering if they will be attacked in their own homes like Vassili Krimov.

 

Krimov was hospitalised after a gang of Chechen thugs broke into his house, robbed him, beat him badly and burnt him with a hot iron.

 

The people of Chernokozovo turned out en masse for the funeral of Yekaterina Vassileva whose son was kidnapped by Chechen bandits.

 

She could not afford the hefty ransom they demanded for his return and died of heart failure.

 

Her son's whereabouts are still unknown.

 

The ataman says something must be done to prevent such things being repeated.

 

Like all Terskovo Cossacks, he resents the idea that the land of his forefathers is no longer under Russian jurisdiction.

 

SOUNDBITE: (Russian)

"Now any young brat can come and say this place is now Chechnya and not Russia and simply boot us out. It's insulting. The Cossacks can do a lot. But so far we still don't want to form any armed gangs."

SUPER CAPTION: Anatoly Cherkassin, Chernokozovo village leader

 

The Cossacks are looking to Russia for support - both from the government and other Cossacks in Russia.

 

Last week the head of Yeltsin's Security Council, Boris Berezovsky, met a gathering of top atamans and promised the Cossacks their demands for arms and help would be met.

 

SOUNDBITE: (Russian)

"If they give out arms then all our men will go and fight in order to defend our land.

If the Cossacks from the Don and Kuban come to help, then of course all our men will rise and fight. Let us have the weapons and this land will never be theirs (the Chechens)."

SUPER CAPTION: Natasha Gorshenyova

 

Cossack leaders say more than 70-thousand Cossack volunteers from southern Russia could be raised immediately to come to the region's aid.

 

But the fighting talk is hard to square with reality.

 

The Chechens, though small in number, mauled the Russian army in the recent war, and are unlikely to give up any territory to Russia.

 

Monday's elections may bring independence to the Chechens but for the Terskovo Cossacks they mean a choice between fleeing or fighting to survive.

 

Old video but relevant to the point @Ranvir was making. KPs are the only sufferers? No, even the mighty Russians. Islamic armed jihad and population jihad go hand in hand...one is a direct line of attack and the other is indirect, subtle. Chechens realized they couldn't separate by defeating Russian military, so now the covert tactic of expelling Christians (through violence, fear, bullying ) and raising their population....in 2009 their TFR was double that of Russian Federation (3.4 vs 1.7) LINK. Now it is an Islamic State within Russia. 

 

But when Chechnya declared independence in 1991 the peaceful life started to crumble. Before the war Russians made up about 40 per cent of Chechnya's population. Now only 10 to 15 per cent is Russian and the number is falling. Every day, three or four families pass through this post on the Russian-Chechen border, leaving for good.......LATEST UPDATE around 1% left.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Gollum

[panther]

9 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

Old video but relevant to the point @Ranvir was making. KPs are the only sufferers? No, even the mighty Russians. Islamic jihad and population jihad go hand in hand...one is a direct line of attack and the other is indirect, subtle. Chechens realized they couldn't separate by defeating Russian military, so now the covert tactic of expelling Christians (through violence, fear, bullying ) and raising their population....in 2009 their TFR was double that of Russian Federation (3.4 vs 1.7) LINK. Now it is an Islamic State within Russia. 

 

But when Chechnya declared independence in 1991 the peaceful life started to crumble. Before the war Russians made up about 40 per cent of Chechnya's population. Now only 10 to 15 per cent is Russian and the number is falling. Every day, three or four families pass through this post on the Russian-Chechen border, leaving for good.......LATEST UPDATE around 1% left.

Lol, Soviets Put the Russians there, much like Kazakhistan has so many germans and Russians, Soviets put them there.

 

Lol At comparing Checheans to Kashmiris, kashmiris are a bunch of rice eating softies, Only a cowardly people would Allow Another cowardly people, Indians to rule over them.

[Gollum]

36 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

I made it, a bare-bones version. I will check it in a day to see what kind of discussion has happened there.

 

People should join DFI to discuss the topic if they want. Random liberandus have less leeway there to get anything that hurts their sensitive feelings deleted. 

 

Yeah saw that, even @sergio04 bhai has commented. Might join that forum in the future time permitting, waise bhi lost interest in cricket and tennis after happenings in July. Baaki bas chit-chat, maybe the sensitive and non-PC subjects can be discussed on DFI. Have occasionally lurked there, how is that forum? Military discussion heavy or even politics and other stuff? 

 

Any other ICFer there apart from these 2?