Bumrah will win us the series.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Vk1 said:

From what I understand, bounce will not help you much in England and on the contrary you will get hit for boundaries. You definitely need to swing preferably outswing to pick wickets. How effectively can Bumrah do this needs to be seen.

In fact, bounce will play a role this time as ball is not swinging much. In fact Edgbaston , Oval, Trentbridge and Ageas Bowl all offer good bounce. 

[R!TTER]

48 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

that was just one innings. His first innings in test cricket.  It takes time to know the lengths to bowl and adjust to it.  He wrong bowled lengths. While Bumrah learned quickly from his mistake in second innings and picked 3. BK got thrashed at 5 rpo in that same innings. Even Shami was rubbish in that innings. Actually Shami was worse than Bumrah who was playing his first test but at the end of the series Bumrah was our best bowler.  He was the only bowler through out the series who never dropped the intensity even on the unresponsive Centurian track, he made life difficult for batsmen.

He hardly bowled more than 15 overs in a day, in the first innings, that you say he learnt quickly from, now the pitch juiced up due to rains for a full day allowing him to pick quick wickets in the second innings. India's second innings thus folded even more quickly at Cape Town. For Centurion he went wicketless in the innings that mattered the most, picking up scalps in the second innings, when the game was over, hardly makes for a good reading.

 

Anyway it's clear that you think he's better than his numbers say, for me he should be coming in the pecking order after Kumar, Shami, Yadav, Sharma. Obviously depending on the conditions, but also the opposition.

Edited July 20, 2018 by R!TTER

[The Dark Horse]

2 hours ago, R!TTER said:

Agreed, but he was the worst of the lot. Can you deny that?

 

After picking up 3 main scalps, this is where the 3rd seamer comes in. FYI 3/12 within the first half hour, the first match we let drift away in the first innings itself. A better set of backup seamers could've restricted SA to under 200 & we may have won that game, Sharma's selection notwithstanding.

Are you crazy? Bumrah was the best of the lot.

[R!TTER]

3 minutes ago, The Dark Horse said:

Are you crazy? Bumrah was the best of the lot.

Really, so his numbers are also a lie? If you watched the series, he was nowhere near the best, Kumar (even though he didnt play the second test) was better.

[The Dark Horse]

2 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Really, so his numbers are also a lie? If you watched the series, he was nowhere near the best, Kumar (even though he didnt play the second test) was better.

I'm not saying Bhuvi was bad, but you're totally underplaying Bumrah's contribution. How is an average of 25 in a series, bad? IIRC he dismissed their best players ABD and Duplessis the most.

[R!TTER]

1 minute ago, The Dark Horse said:

I'm not saying Bhuvi was bad, but you're totally underplaying Bumrah's contribution. How is an average of 25 in a series, bad? IIRC he dismissed their best players ABD and Duplessis the most.

Because he didn't pick up wickets at critical junctures. First test SA 3/12 he goes wicketless in the first session. The match was lost right there. Second test opened the bowling, again went wicketless in the first innings, though the loss on that track was down to the batters' ineptness. Last test, batters won that game for us.

 

As for 25 avg, check the rest of the pacers. He didn't string two good performances in a row, with the ball, that's on him and hence the numbers.

[lamellavig]

1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

Because he didn't pick up wickets at critical junctures. First test SA 3/12 he goes wicketless in the first session. The match was lost right there. Second test opened the bowling, again went wicketless in the first innings, though the loss on that track was down to the batters' ineptness. Last test, batters won that game for us.

 

As for 25 avg, check the rest of the pacers. He didn't string two good performances in a row, with the ball, that's on him and hence the numbers.

You are the kind of guy who backs Ishant Sharma, Umesh Yadav, and Shardul Thakur. Aren't you one of those fans of English Premier League football teams?

 

Bumrah is too cerebral and smart .

Edited July 20, 2018 by beetle

[Ankit_sharma03]

Warnie took 40+ wkts in 2005 ashes in england yet they didnt win

No one player can win u a series 

[R!TTER]

1 hour ago, lamellavig said:

You are the kind of guy who backs Ishant Sharma, Umesh Yadav, and Shardul Thakur. Aren't you one of those fans of English Premier League football teams?

 

Bumrah is too cerebral and smart .

 I don't follow football neither do I support Ishant nor Thakur but will reserve judgement for Yadav till the end of the tour. As for Umesh have you seen him bowl in tests in SA, Eng or NZ even once? Bumrah got wickets tailor made for pacers earlier in the year, yet didn't deliver the KO punch.

 

Ankit right, did you see the OP, does that look like a fanboy to you?

Edited July 20, 2018 by beetle

[lamellavig]

49 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

 I don't follow football neither do I support Ishant. As for Umesh have you seen him bowl in tests in SA, Eng or NZ even once? Bumrah got wickets tailor made for pacers earlier in the year, yet didn't deliver the KO punch.

 

Ankit right, did you see the OP, does that look like a fanboy to you?

Yes I have. Umesh is the worst bowler I have ever seen. And you are blind and also clearly intellectually compromised. learn about the cerebral aspects of cricket, which Bumrah is a master and practitioner of. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by beetle

[bhakum20]

3 hours ago, Vk1 said:

From what I understand, bounce will not help you much in England and on the contrary you will get hit for boundaries. You definitely need to swing preferably outswing to pick wickets. How effectively can Bumrah do this needs to be seen.

First bumrah needs to get fit, otherwise it'll be tragic.

 

Bounce + Seam will make him deadly, assuming the pitches aren't absolute roads.

 

To me, bumrah is in the mcgrath/asif mould. Quick, accurate and gets just enough seam. Watch few of his wickets against SA in tests and he managed to get some nicks beautifully off accurate 140k+ bowling with little bit of seam. Got an awesome bowled as well. Mcgrath/Asif really owned in Eng, I've no doubt Bumrah can do as good if not better.

[Stan AF]

Bumrah is good.

 

Can he make a noticeable difference?. Yes, i think so.

 

But he needs to be backed up by at-least 2 other good bowlers to complete the job. If Kuldeep is selected and performs well he could be the X Factor along with Bumrah. Then Shami/umesh can do the cleanup job. 

 

Look at the Ashes series last summer in Australia. All 4 bowlers (Lyon/Cummins/Starc and Hazie ended up taking 20 wickets). That's the sort of attack we need. One bowler alone won't cut it. 

[vishalvirsingh]

15 hours ago, express bowling said:

We desperately need a fit Bumrah in this test series.

 

In SA test matches, he bowled with great intensity in most sessions,  maintained high speeds of 138 k to 148 k throughout,  hit the deck hard and extracted a lot of life out of the pitches and bowled to a plan.  

 

He looked hungry to win the tests and never looked like going through the motions.

 

This is what we need ... and not pacers who drop intensity or pace or don't have any plans.

At one side selectors did a great job in bringing bumrah for South Africa tests and then they pick a trundler sid kaul for odi series who is a defensive bowler managed to get one wicket in 2 odi when umesh got 4 from two ODI... He was dropped for Shardul and shardul got one wicket n had Dhoni caught root.. He wud have got 2.

Sid will be history now.. I hope he is not selected in future.. His performance was under par n he trundled.

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, R!TTER said:

Really, so his numbers are also a lie? If you watched the series, he was nowhere near the best, Kumar (even though he didnt play the second test) was better.

How was Kumar better? He went for 5 rpo in first innings of the first test. You are comparing a debutant to some who is playing test for a decade now.  Let's keep aside first two tests as it was Bumrah first tour and debut. Check who was better in the third test. Both played. Same conditions. Clearly Bumrah got better by the end of the series and it was his debut test series.

[R!TTER]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

How was Kumar better? He went for 5 rpo in first innings of the first test. You are comparing a debutant to some who is playing test for a decade now.  Let's keep aside first two tests as it was Bumrah first tour and debut. Check who was better in the third test. Both played. Same conditions. Clearly Bumrah got better by the end of the series and it was his debut test series.

Penetration wise he did get better, I wouldn't be so sure of consistency though, since the last test was practically played on a minefield & quick bowlers had a field day on it.

 

Tell you what, how about you tell me Bumrah's test figures a year from now? Where do you think his bowling avg would be, wickets per match and 5fers or 10fers in that period?

 

For starters I think he'll avg no less than Shami, if at all. Also if he plays all 4 games in Aus, even with Warner & Smith missing, I expect his avg to be north of 30. If he's really that good then he should avg less than 30 in England and Aus, if not then he's no better than Shami or Kumar.

[lamellavig]

1 minute ago, R!TTER said:

Penetration wise he did get better, I wouldn't be so sure of consistency though, since the last test was practically played on a minefield & quick bowlers had a field day on it.

 

Tell you what, how about you tell me Bumrah's test figures a year from now? Where do you think his bowling avg would be, wickets per match and 5fers or 10fers in that period?

 

For starters I think he'll avg no less than Shami, if at all. Also if he plays all 4 games in Aus, even with Warner & Smith missing, I expect his avg to be north of 30. If he's really that good then he should avg less than 30 in England and Aus, if not then he's no better than Shami or Kumar.

You have explained yourself why you should not write off Bumrah so early. If he avg less than 30, what will you say?

[rkt.india]

Now compare the stats of Bumrah and BK in the two tests they played together.

 

First test BK 120/6.

Third test BK 83/4.

 

Total 203/10= average 20.3

 

Bumrah first test 112/4.

Bumrah third test 111/7.

 

Total 223/11= average 20.2

 

@R!TTER and keep in mind, it was his test debut.

Edited July 20, 2018 by rkt.india

[R!TTER]

12 minutes ago, lamellavig said:

You have explained yourself why you should not write off Bumrah so early. If he avg less than 30, what will you say?

No I have explained what Bumrah ought to do, he still needs to do it. You remember the last Indian bowler to avg less than 30 in Aus in the last 30 years? Hint - he wasn't a pacer.

 

With a large enough sample set i.e. 15-20 games, mostly against good teams, if Bumrah avg less than 30 then yes he's good enough to be a test spearhead.

Edited July 20, 2018 by R!TTER

[Pollack]

10 hours ago, The Dark Horse said:

Are you crazy? Bumrah was the best of the lot.

No he wasn't.

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, Pollack said:

No he wasn't.

He was.