Viv Richards: I'd pick Sachin over Lara

[Muloghonto]

6 minutes ago, goose said:

375 and 501...yep no stats there

Actually the biggest shameless stats-hunting i've seen also came from Lara, when he did his 400*. 
It was the 5th match of the series, with WI losing 4-0 so far and Lara having scored exactly 100 runs in the 8 previous innings. 

West Indies batted just past lunch on day-3, putting up a mammoth 751/5 declared, thereby, virtually guaranteeing that the match would end in a draw. 

As a captain, it doesn't get more categoric example of 'me over team' than that. 

[zen]

Lara last two years:

 

Career averages

	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	131	232	6	11953	400*	52.88	19753	60.51	34	48	17	1559	88	Profile
filtered	19	35	0	1859	226	53.11	2920	63.66	8	2	4	224	19

 

 

Tendulkar's last two years 

 

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	1989-2013	200	329	33	15921	248*	53.78	29437+	54.04*	51	68	14	2058+	69	Profile
filtered	2012-2013	15	24	1	633	81	27.52	1231	51.42	0	4	0	89	2

 

Basically played to reach to 200 test matches

[zen]

2005 - 2006 (last two years of Lara)

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India  or West Indies

Start of match date between 1 Jan 2005 and 1 Jan 2007

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 500

Ordered by batting average (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
R Dravid (INDIA)	2005-2006	19	32	4	1712	146	61.14	3921	43.66	5	11	0	206	2
BC Lara (WI)	2005-2006	18	33	0	1818	226	55.09	2861	63.54	8	2	4	216	19
V Sehwag (INDIA)	2005-2006	19	33	2	1493	254	48.16	1837	81.27	4	3	5	220	10
S Chanderpaul (WI)	2005-2006	21	38	4	1544	203*	45.41	3417	45.18	3	8	1	160	7
VVS Laxman (INDIA)	2005-2006	18	30	5	1069	140	42.76	2410	44.35	3	7	3	153	1
W Jaffer (INDIA)	2006-2006	9	17	0	689	212	40.52	1525	45.18	2	3	0	90	1
CH Gayle (WI)	2005-2006	17	31	0	1224	317	39.48	2053	59.62	1	8	3	164	21
D Ganga (WI)	2005-2006	11	19	1	708	135	39.33	1633	43.35	1	4	1	94	0
DJ Bravo (WI)	2005-2006	15	27	1	893	113	34.34	2001	44.62	2	4	1	110	1
SR Tendulkar (INDIA)	2005-2006	14	22	1	711	109	33.85	1508	47.14	1	4	1	108	1
RR Sarwan (WI)	2005-2006	15	29	2	867	127	32.11	1760	49.26	3	5	3	117	3
IK Pathan (INDIA)	2005-2006	15	21	1	624	93	31.20	1119	55.76	0	5	3	73	9
Yuvraj Singh (INDIA)	2005-2006	13	19	2	528	122	31.05	992	53.22	1	2	3	77	2
MS Dhoni (INDIA)	2005-2006	15	24	1	706	148	30.69	977	72.26	1	3	0	96	14
D Ramdin (WI)	2005-2006	15	27	5	577	71	26.22	1296	44.52	0	4	0	74	1

 

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by zen

[Jimmy Cliff]

8 hours ago, zen said:

Relatively speaking, Tendulkar played for stats. His 194* in Pak is a prime example where the team had to finally declare. In Aus too his 200 was not among his best in terms of fluency .... the pursuit of 100 100s is among the worst examples  of a sportsman mindlessly pursuing a record. Many in Ind, which lacks a sporting pedigree, supported such pursuits as well as such invented meaningless stats are better than nothing. And it is such guys who mainly spam for Tendulkar (and as the country lacks world class sporting heros, Tendulkar being a rare world class sportsman attracts such fans from Ind, fueling the desire to constantly prove he is the best at any cost) .... therefore such stats and discussions appear pointless after a while .... while Lara played and the stats took care of themselves. He has many memorable 100s and series performances. Yes, on occasions, he would consider stats too but we are talking relatively 

 

 

 

Relatively speaking, Lara was a dead rubber basher. In quite a few series, he would go on a holiday when the series was alive but cash in big time in a relatively meaningless dead rubber bumping up his stats for that series. This reflects in his overall record too where his average crashes to 48 if we only count live Tests. His 400* is a prime example of his dead rubber prowess. May be that is why in such a long career, he has only 5 match-winning hundreds against non-minnows in live Tests .

Edited December 13, 2018 by Jimmy Cliff

[velu]

8 hours ago, CSK Fan said:

In Tendulkar's prime we never played more than 2-3 match series. He scored 403 in a 2 match series and 493 in a 4 match series. you think he couldn't score extra 7 runs? He has crossed 400 5 times in 2 and 3 match series,  you think extra matches wouldnt have made him cross 500?

 

excuses excuses excuses ..

its not that his contemporary batsmen crossed 500 mark once or twice ..

 

thread in the making  

[Deleted_User_1]

Tendulkar is easily the most complete modern day batsman who played tests and ODI (Phuck T-tontee). His longevity and overall consistency was remarkable. From 1998-2002 he was a freak. Also noteworthy is how he came back from the tennis elbow and had a second coming from 2007-2011 WC. Also his work ethic and demeanor on-off the field was exemplary.

 

Gavaskar was my childhood idol and a pioneer, but even he did not have this level of consistency. My only gripe with SRT is his lingering around for 2 years past his prime and sinking into mediocrity which pained me to observe. Had he hung up his boots after WC 2011 at 38, he would have been a no-doubter.

[rkt.india]

11 hours ago, putrevus said:

No you are wrong. Lara averaged 60 by his 32 second test and had already scored 375.Then it was gradual decline till Srilankan series in 2001.That Lara was better than Tendulkar.

 

Tendulkar is greatest sportsman who never let superstardom change him as person. Tendulkar got along with everyone and that is his one his greatest attribute. But we are not talking about their personal lives, as a selector when both Lara and Tendulkar at their peaks are available , I will take Lara anyday. Lara will win matches which Tendulkar never could.We are talking about only tests,

Lara might win you 1-2 max 3 matches with his individual brilliance on his day but he will lose you badly as well with his string of failures.  SRT brought that consistency that is why we could more games as a team, he may not have won them single handedly but we still won more games.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Relatively speaking, Lara was a dead rubber basher. In quite a few series, he would go on a holiday when the series was alive but cash in big time in a relatively meaningless dead rubber bumping up his stats for that series. This reflects in his overall record too where his average crashes to 48 if we only count live Tests. His 400* is a prime example of his dead rubber prowess. May be that is why in such a log career, he has only 5 match-winning hundreds against non-minnows in live Tests .

true. he used to go dead in pressure games. 

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

true. he used to go dead in pressure games. 

On the other hand, two of the greatest pressure knocks also came from Lara... that man was a bag of contradictions.

[Rasgulla]

13 hours ago, velu said:

 

excuses excuses excuses ..

its not that his contemporary batsmen crossed 500 mark once or twice ..

 

thread in the making  

Did this little one ever cross 300 in his life ? Legend Lara on other hand has 400. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Rasgulla

[Jimmy Cliff]

7 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

On the other hand, two of the greatest pressure knocks also came from Lara... that man was a bag of contradictions.

Agree. But people end up extrapolating that 1999 series to his entire career. Of course this happens with Sachin too, a lot of people only remember the Chennai Test in 1999 and the 1996 WC SF and believe this is what happened throughout the 90s.

[Muloghonto]

55 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Agree. But people end up extrapolating that 1999 series to his entire career. Of course this happens with Sachin too, a lot of people only remember the Chennai Test in 1999 and the 1996 WC SF and believe this is what happened throughout the 90s.

The Chennai and Bridgetown test of 1999 shows, how little separates 'the best' innings from ' meh not in top 100' innings. 
Sachin faced Akram, Akhtar, Saqlain and Razzaq. This was Saqlain when he was one of the top 4 spinners in the world in effectiveness. He got out for 136 or so, to a great catch, with India like 20 or so runs from the target and India ended up losing. 

 

In Bridgetown, with 9 wickets down, Lara offered a simple thick edge catch against Gillespie, while on 142 or 143. One of the safest wicketkeepers ever - Healey- flubbed it and Lara knocked off the next 10 runs required for the greatest innings of all-time. 

This is one of the most oft-overlooked fact about the two greatest innings played by the two greatest test batsmen of the last 30 years. 

 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

On the other hand, two of the greatest pressure knocks also came from Lara... that man was a bag of contradictions.

dead rubbers

[Jimmy Cliff]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

dead rubbers

He's referring to Lara's 213 and 153* vs Australia in 1999. Those definitely weren't scored in dead rubbers.

[Jimmy Cliff]

42 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

The Chennai and Bridgetown test of 1999 shows, how little separates 'the best' innings from ' meh not in top 100' innings. 
Sachin faced Akram, Akhtar, Saqlain and Razzaq. This was Saqlain when he was one of the top 4 spinners in the world in effectiveness. He got out for 136 or so, to a great catch, with India like 20 or so runs from the target and India ended up losing. 

 

In Bridgetown, with 9 wickets down, Lara offered a simple thick edge catch against Gillespie, while on 142 or 143. One of the safest wicketkeepers ever - Healey- flubbed it and Lara knocked off the next 10 runs required for the greatest innings of all-time. 

This is one of the most oft-overlooked fact about the two greatest innings played by the two greatest test batsmen of the last 30 years. 

 

Lara nicked again a few balls later against McGrath that just evaded 1st slip. However, I think Tendulkar's 136 is closer to Mark Waugh's 123 vs SA at Port Elizabeth than Lara's 153*. Both came in with the teams 2 down for very little chasing 270 odd in the 4th innings. Both got out with less than 20 runs to get. The only difference being that the Aussie tail chased down the total. Waugh's knock was included inn the top 25 innings IIRC in Wisden's list.

[velu]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

He's referring to Lara's 213 and 153* vs Australia in 1999. Those definitely weren't scored in dead rubbers.

wow .. you are totally unbiased   

[zen]

Ind has a culture where personal gains are given a priority over the welfare of community. For e.g. we clean our house and immediately throw the garbage on streets, we hoard black money and proudly evade taxes, we can destroy the environment to avail short term benefits, we keep producing w/o doing much to for the future of new generation, and so on. So it is not a surprise that meaningless records such as 100 100s and the pursuit of personal stats are given a priority. Players are even kept in the side to allow them to complete 200 tests. Players who do that are seen as big heros by many   

Edited December 13, 2018 by zen

[rtmohanlal]

19 minutes ago, zen said:

Ind has a culture where personal gains are given a priority over the welfare of community. For e.g. we clean our house and immediately throw the garbage on streets, we hoard black money and proudly evade taxes, we can destroy the environment to avail short term benefits, we keep producing w/o doing much to for the future of new generation, and so on. So it is not a surprise that meaningless records such as 100 100s and the pursuit of personal stats are given a priority. Players are even kept in the side to allow them to complete 200 tests. Players who do that are seen as big heros by many   

I am yet to see a player who is 100% selfless. Have seen batsmen jumping with joy once they achieves the 100 mark . So you means??

[zen]

Just now, rtmohanlal said:

I am yet to see a player who is 100% selfless. Have seen batsmen jumping with joy once they achieves the 100 mark . So you means??

We are speaking relatively  

[rtmohanlal]

Just now, zen said:

We are speaking relatively  

 

12 minutes ago, zen said:

We are speaking relatively  

 i  agreed .... Sachin was selfish....