velu Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said: that missile was sold to taiwanese .... lol https://www.acq.osd.mil/dpap/cpic/cp/docs/USA002235-10_Complete Foreign Military Sales.pdf and balakot too is not in pakistan Edited February 28, 2019 by velu Straight Drive and mishra 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Drive Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 35 minutes ago, Clarke said: Mig 29 or mirage 2k are comparable to f16, all middle weight multiroles. F15 is the real badass from what I've read, never been shot down by an enemy aircraft, maybe because it didn't go head to head with the Su-27 series, both of which are heavy air superiority fighters. I think we have only MiG 21 and MiG27 series. Do we have MiG 29 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandeep99 Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Such a shame for Pakistan..losing an F16 to MiG21... they have lost one of their best fighter jets just to show that they're war ready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, velu said: bhai .. f16 too is outdated smartass guys gave licensing deal to us , but we rejected man it is out dated but they do have some block 52's those are serious threats. Only m2k/ mig 29 upg, sumki / su 35and j10s ( and 6th gen) in South asia can get an upper hand over them. Mig 21 bison is not a good match to f 16 in most theaters, with rules of engagement stacked against Mig 21, its nothing short of a miracle that IAF scored a hit on a paf f16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Straight Drive said: I think we have only MiG 21 and MiG27 series. Do we have MiG 29 ? we have mig 29 UPG thats a mig 35 level fighter with extended range and multi role capablities. We have 3 squads and are trying to get one more of it, but it is recently upgraded, the earlier non upgraded mig 29s were only air superiority fighters, these current ones are multi role like m2k's but since IAF has not had them for long they do not have experience with them ( have not used in in various ROE's) so they are comfortable using M2k. Mig 21 and 27 are pre cold war relics and are to be decommissioned. Edited February 28, 2019 by Vilander Straight Drive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Clarke said: F15 is the real badass from what I've read, never been shot down by an enemy aircraft, maybe because it didn't go head to head with the Su-27 series, real badass is su35,And now Rafale. And the real boss F22. F15 is like about to retire heavy weight champion who never battled the about to retire challenger su27. Edited February 28, 2019 by Vilander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Now Americans are calling this the biggest story of the day! Gollum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Straight Drive said: I guess F16 is better than Mirage as well. not all variants. block 52s of them PAF has some, are better than non upgraded m2k. but India has m2k upgraded ones now, i would say they are on par. f16 block 70IN offered to India or the f21 now are different level, with conformal fuel tanks etc, but then India would have Rafales and Tejas mk2 mwfs to match them. even tejas mk1 or Tejas FOC / mk1a can match a non upgraded f16 pak has several of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, Straight Drive said: I think we have only MiG 21 and MiG27 series. Do we have MiG 29 ? Both Air force & Navy have the 29. Before the Sukhoi & Mirage came along, it was our best fighter. Straight Drive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Drive Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Clarke said: Both Air force & Navy have the 29. Before the Sukhoi & Mirage came along, it was our best fighter. Thank you. Wasnt aware of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Drive Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Vilander said: not all variants. block 52s of them PAF has some, are better than non upgraded m2k. but India has m2k upgraded ones now, i would say they are on par. f16 block 70IN offered to India or the f21 now are different level, with conformal fuel tanks etc, but then India would have Rafales and Tejas mk2 mwfs to match them. even tejas mk1 or Tejas FOC / mk1a can match a non upgraded f16 pak has several of them Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 37 minutes ago, Clarke said: Both Air force & Navy have the 29. Before the Sukhoi & Mirage came along, it was our best fighter. the mg 29 k that navy has are equal to SMT versions and also have foldable wings. They have 45 IAF has 69 mig 29 UPG and trying to get 21 more. These would be only lesser than Su30mki and Rafale in Indian inventory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 hours ago, sandeep said: Or a lucky shot in close-quarter fighting. No disrespect, but let's not award undue credit Bakistani style. when a hyena wins vs a tiger ( rare but known to happen), its due to a lucky break. When a cheetah wins vs a lion, its a lucky shot. When a 65 year old plane with all dials and knobs and not a SINGLE LCD display wins vs a 30 year old plane that is STILL an integral part of the most dominant air force in the world, it has to involve luck. You cannot stage a 'clear skies, this is Maverick on the left, streaming in, that is Viper on the right, streaming in, go go go' Top Gun style fight between a 1st gen fighter and a 3rd gen fighter and expect the 1st gen fighter to win. Not unless the former is piloted by Manfred Van Richtofen and the latter by me. JourneyMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Straight Drive said: F16 is defintely better than MiG series. I guess F16 is better than Mirage as well. MiG-29 eats F-16 for dinner in combat. MiG-29 actually compares well to Su-30s in pure dogfighting ability. The two main problem with MiG-29 is it lacks endurance and its the most expensive plane to maintain in our entire fleet, with allegations that its 3x more expensive to maintain per flight hour than the Su-30s. Hence we did not acquire more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 hours ago, MechEng said: Yeah, but still needs guts. It's like Praveen Kumar trying to bounce out Kevin Pietersen, and is successful in doing so. Wasn't it Madan Lal who decieded to bounce Sir Viv in 83 world cup final, an offer which Viv gleefully accepted and was pivotal in making us win the world cup ? As Alexander famously said - fortune favors the bold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Vilander said: not all variants. block 52s of them PAF has some, are better than non upgraded m2k. but India has m2k upgraded ones now, i would say they are on par. f16 block 70IN offered to India or the f21 now are different level, with conformal fuel tanks etc, but then India would have Rafales and Tejas mk2 mwfs to match them. even tejas mk1 or Tejas FOC / mk1a can match a non upgraded f16 pak has several of them Are Tejas inducted to active duty yet? Unacceptable that IAF jet replenishment is languishing for decades like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turning_track Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, sandeep said: Are Tejas inducted to active duty yet? Unacceptable that IAF jet replenishment is languishing for decades like this. No, not inducted. But got its final clearance for induction into IAF just a week back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Just now, sandeep said: Are Tejas inducted to active duty yet? Unacceptable that IAF jet replenishment is languishing for decades like this. yes 14 of them for flying daggers. But these are IOC so wont see fronline combat will have air patrol duty within India, could be in a scenario like the mig 21 that crashed but probably wont crash in pak but on sea if they are brought down( since it is out of sulur). The current ones are Mk1 IOC, next ones will be FOC level . After first 18 are completed , the rest would be Mk1a ( which is FOC + uttam AESA and mid air refueling). I think current order size is 40 odd. Govt is going to place an order for 83 tejas mk1a shortly. 2022 - Tejas mk2 mwf - thats a totally different fighter, it has a canard etc - it will be more potent. For replenishing numbers IAF is trying to get 21 unused uncompleted mig 29 airframes and getting Mig to make them mig 29 upg --> this could take a couple of years. They are also after a couple of m2ks from france and 32 jaguars those would be spares and attrition replacements. 18 additional su30 mki knock down kits were ordered, HAL will make those. So SU 30 mki numbers when complete will grow to 272_ 18 = 290 ( i dont know attrition may be 2 lost and replaced). Its not bad but rafale is the capability enhancer and AWAC that they are ordering, MMRCA is a major blow thanks to UPA. Modi should just use this war cover and order 36 more rafale if congress shouts scam he should just call them traitors, could be election safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Vilander said: But these are IOC so wont see fronline combat will have air patrol duty within India, could be in a scenario like the mig 21 that crashed but probably wont crash in pak but on sea if they are brought down( since it is out of sulur). have to clarify , i meant in an adverse scenario. tejas Mk1 which are in IAF inventory are in no way bad fighters, they are much much more capable than a mig 21 or even an un upgraded m2k. Mk1 - LCA Tejas Mk1 ( IOC - production ending , FOC - full op clearance version - production starting) MK1a- is an upgraded Tejas mk1 a version, it has several upgrades on the venila version. Mk2 - LCA tejas MK2( medium weight fighter - MWF) - Design frozen, its a longer heavier tejas,will have more powerful powerplant and canrads ( the little wings that you see in front of the delta wing - like in rafale and su 30mki) M2k - Mirage 2000 Edited February 28, 2019 by Vilander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 36 minutes ago, Turning_track said: No, not inducted. But got its final clearance for induction into IAF just a week back. i thought already 1 squadron was operational ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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