Imran Khan's Naya Pakistan

[Vilander]

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/pakistan-coronavirus-testing/a-54221822

[Skipper]

On 9/5/2020 at 5:12 PM, First class said:

First,  best performance in  Asia in controlling covid 19 spread and now this----------, What's going on in IK's Naya Pakistan ? 

 

Pakistan Stock Exchange named best performing in Asia

Economists say development is signal of economic recovery

At a time when most of the world is still grappling with COVID-19 and its effects on economy, normalcy has almost returned to Pakistan, which is further underpinned by an economic stimulus package, mainly for the industrial and construction sectors.

 

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/pakistan-stock-exchange-named-best-performing-in-asia/1960823#:~:text=KARACHI%2C Pakistan,otherwise contracting economy is recovering.

Does Pakistan have stock exchange? that itself is commendable.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Skipper

[First class]

6 hours ago, Adi_91 said:

We in ICF don’t see any member based on religion. It may be okay in Pakistan, but here we don’t do such thing. 

 

The topic anyway is on IK. He doesn’t enjoy much respect here as he is only ranting about Kashmir, Modi and RSS. Seriously don’t you guys think he is doing a great disservice to Pakistan voters who voted for him. Did they vote for him to rant like this on India and topics concerning India?

IK is a politician and no one should be complaining if people express whatever they think about any politician including IK, in whatever words they chose. Its the remarks about a religion and a country which should have some limits on the words we chose but that does not mean this topic is off limit by any means. Everyone can criticize any religion or country in strongest words , if he/she desires to but should avoid using degrading and "naked" words. 

 

     IK is not an undisputed leader even in Pakistan. Some hate him, some love him. Corruption in Pakistan is a huge problem , thanks to Sharifs and Bhuttos and IK is sincerely ( in my opinion ) working to control it with some success. I'm hopeful he will prove to be a better leader than his predecessors and so far I'm not disappointed from him. But I'm not on this forum to explain any of his action, I also don't endorse many things he says or does. 

 

     Controlling corruption in army is beyond his power, that is a fact and no one should  expect that from him. That was obvious when he could not do any thing about that guy Asim Bajwa, the pizza boy,  who made millions in USA. This is corruption, pure and simple, in Sharif style. I live and work in USA  and anyone in USA knows its not easy to make money in here too. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by First class

[maniac]

On 9/6/2020 at 6:06 AM, First class said:

They enforced better and smarter  lockdown , particularly at covid hotspots. The health ministry is being run by technical people and they stated training nurse and doctors to manage covid patient months before the covid surge. There was a big campaign run by GOP in the name of Yaran-e-Watan , where they involved a big number of doctors from USA and UK in that project and it worked. But this is only part of the answer. 

 

 

You are talking as if this smart lockdown concept is a breakthrough and ground breaking theory invented by Pakistan. 
 

Countries with harsher lockdowns with everything to a standstill couldn’t control it initially and then eventually had to go the smart lockdown route to save their economy

 

What exactly is unique here?

 

Pakistan’s testing is marginal compared to other countries?

One of the basic rules everyone need to follow in life, if something is too good to be true, then always question it. You won’t end up being an idiot.

 

[mishra]

^ Smart thing was  having mosque and business open no matter what. That avoided street rioting by Fanatics and nation going bankrupt during past 3-4 months

[Adi_91]

3 hours ago, First class said:

IK is a politician and no one should be complaining if people express whatever they think about any politician including IK, in whatever words they chose. Its the remarks about a religion and a country which should have some limits on the words we chose but that does not mean this topic is off limit by any means. Everyone can criticize any religion or country in strongest words , if he/she desires to but should avoid using degrading and "naked" words. 

 

     IK is not an undisputed leader even in Pakistan. Some hate him, some love him. Corruption in Pakistan is a huge problem , thanks to Sharifs and Bhuttos and IK is sincerely ( in my opinion ) working to control it with some success. I'm hopeful he will prove to be a better leader than his predecessors and so far I'm not disappointed from him. But I'm not on this forum to explain any of his action, I also don't endorse many things he says or does. 

 

     Controlling corruption in army is beyond his power, that is a fact and no one should  expect that from him. That was obvious when he could not do any thing about that guy Asim Bajwa, the pizza boy,  who made millions in USA. This is corruption, pure and simple, in Sharif style. I live and work in USA  and anyone in USA knows its not easy to make money in here too. 

Agreed. The basic point is, Pakistan is the same country that harbored world’s most wanted terrorist right next to an Pak army HQ and pretended they were not aware. That country which lied about his whereabouts  has no credibility left to convince that it successfully controlled the virus.

[sandeep]

On 9/5/2020 at 8:21 AM, First class said:

Facts are there for you to see, how you react to that, its your state of mind,  negative/hate or positive. Nothing bothers me, everyone is free to express his/her opinion. Negativity is not good for mental and physical health , for anyone, just a suggestion. 

If you are a Pakistani, and you are educated, the facts are there for you to see.  Karachi Stock Exchange is notorious for fraud and corruption, and fake bull runs.  Its an open secret that those with "seats" on the exchange provide conduits for "Corp Commanders" or as a Pakistani Mullah once called them CRORE Commanders, to "invest" and launder their money. 

 

Another simple aspect is the fact that stocks, like gold, provide a degree of protection against Inflation.  If you have money sitting in the bank, and your country's currency is losing value, it is common sense to buy an asset that will not lose value - gold for example. Stocks also work this way.  Witness the massive gains in the American Stock indices this year, because the federal reserve is busy printing money to fight recession.  

 

Indian stock exchanges also had their share of similar fraud in the past - google the name "Harshad Mehta" for some history.  The difference is that once the scandal came to light, the government was forced to respond with audits and financial reforms.  In PakMil Mafia-istan, there is never any accountability for the "powers" that run things. They can continue to do what they want.  

 

 

[sandeep]

16 hours ago, First class said:

When it comes to "Chit Chat"  there are simply too many postings degrading towards Pakistan and Islam, very hostile . Many posters forget that Islam is not a Pakistani religion, there are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan .

This is a fair point.

[sandeep]

16 hours ago, First class said:

At PP, most of the time, moderators are quick to delete any such comments towards India, Hinduism or towards any religion. Sometime even some OK posts are deleted for the same reason, which is another extreme.  No wonder there are more Indians in PP than Pakistanis in ICF

This is complete BS - hostile rhetoric against India and Hindus is tolerated and "moderators" often lead the wave.  

 

There are "more" Indians because there are simply more educated Indians with access to the Internet who are curious about the "other" side, and are more open minded.  Probability wise, the average educated Indian is far more likely to be open minded, and seek out interaction with a Pakistani, than vice versa.  

 

 

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, First class said:

Controlling corruption in army is beyond his power, that is a fact and no one should  expect that from him.

Hard to take you seriously when you openly say that a "Prime Minister" cannot be expected to fight corruption because it is "beyond his power".  If such a basic responsiblilty of office is beyond him, then he is essentially a puppet.  Which is more than obvious.  Why is such ghulaami so easily accepted by Pakistanis - pretty much any aspect of life where the Army mafia has decided it wants to make profits, they control.  You are one of those passionate "supporters" of IK and PTI, who do not hesitate when criticizing the  corruption of the Sharifs and Bhuttos.  Do you not realize that the corruption and looting done by your army is 1000x that of those 2? And is costing your country so much more?  How can you just bend over and accept it?  

 

Forget about Imran Khan, and the deals he made to achieve his personal desire of emulating a fantasy where he "saves" Pakistan.  Why are the Pakistani citizenry so Qaayar and lamb-like, in the face of naked exploitation and looting? Why so quick to get on your knees and say it is "beyond our power".   Our grandparents had the balls to take on the British Empire and fight for Azaadi.  Shame on you folks for surrendering it to a handful of self-appointed Jernails who loot billions from you while demanding salutes on their fake medals.  

[sandeep]

On 9/6/2020 at 6:06 AM, First class said:

It seems like although there are many similarities among Indian and Pakistanis but looks like they are genetically different or for whatever reason they have a different immune response against diseases.

And you say you are a Doctor?  

 

Sad if this sort of ignorance is spouted by a physician.  Goes to show you the power of propaganda and desire to fabricate "differences".

[coffee_rules]

16 hours ago, First class said:

When it comes to "Chit Chat"  there are simply too many postings degrading towards Pakistan and Islam, very hostile . Many posters forget that Islam is not a Pakistani religion, there are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan . Looks like when any Pakistanis posts ICF "chot Chat" forum , he gets a hostile reception .Forget about Pakistanis, don't think there are too many Indian Muslims are in ICF for the same reason.  PP has Indian moderators but I doubt ICF has any even Indian Muslim moderator otherwise he/she would lot not let these posts stay.  

Not at all fair. There is no openly filled hate for Muslims here in ICF. Only few posters whose names are evident and they topics she/he chooses gets identified as Muslim. None of the others are not even known by their religion. There is openness in discussion without being PC. Hence, the Hinduphobia shown by anti-CAA protests, hypocrisy of liberals, commies, marxists historians, secularists get called out more openly. That is what is making uncomfortable for you because you fear discussion of religion openly because of blasphemy laws. When the politics and hypocrisy of Islamophobia is criticized, or terrorists and rioters are shown the mirror, it is uncomfortable for believers as it is logical. I don’t want to discuss or compare with any other forum here in ICF.

 

Pakistanis come here to troll mostly, I have seen very few who can take the openness of discussion about Muslims , esp from across the border.

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

And you say you are a Doctor?  

 

Sad if this sort of ignorance is spouted by a physician.  Goes to show you the power of propaganda and desire to fabricate "differences".

I don’t like a measuring contest when it involves innocent civilians especially kids but looks like Pakistanis are not genetically immune to polio like they are for Covid because while all the countries in the world including the remotest of African nations are polio free but Pakistan and their other “genetically close” neighbor Afghanistan and I think Nigeria are the only other countries with active polio cases still.

 

Its not even a “you are so dumb hahaha moment” it’s scary that a educated person leave alone a doctor has these dumb generalizations then I shudder what the opinions and thoughts of the average joe on the streets of Pakistan are.

 

First step to progress is self introspection. While I just want to bring the equivalence to appease our Pakistan friends but sure there are delusional folk on this side of the border too who think everything is milk and honey but these guys take it to a different level with all that mountain men theory but again their prime minster who is supposedly Oxford educated and being an elite athlete has travelled the world and speaks like a illiterate Mullah, so make whatever of it.

[First class]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

And you say you are a Doctor?  

 

Sad if this sort of ignorance is spouted by a physician.  Goes to show you the power of propaganda and desire to fabricate "differences".

If you have a better and more educated explanation for the big difference in  covid 19 stats in Pakistan and India, I would like to know that. If you think the stats are just a propaganda ,  then you belong to a different class. There is no question the immune response to virus has been different in Pakistan and India and reason is not proven yet, but different theories has been proposed. 

[First class]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

Not at all fair. There is no openly filled hate for Muslims here in ICF. Only few posters whose names are evident and they topics she/he chooses gets identified as Muslim. None of the others are not even known by their religion. There is openness in discussion without being PC. Hence, the Hinduphobia shown by anti-CAA protests, hypocrisy of liberals, commies, marxists historians, secularists get called out more openly. That is what is making uncomfortable for you because you fear discussion of religion openly because of blasphemy laws. When the politics and hypocrisy of Islamophobia is criticized, or terrorists and rioters are shown the mirror, it is uncomfortable for believers as it is logical. I don’t want to discuss or compare with any other forum here in ICF.

 

Pakistanis come here to troll mostly, I have seen very few who can take the openness of discussion about Muslims , esp from across the border.

Unfortunately ( or fortunately) I'm not a very religious person but strongly believe people possess a special feeling about their religion in their heart and that should be respected, all religions including hinduism and Islam . But that doesn't mean we should not be discussing religious matter in a forum like this . Blasphemy laws, terrorism, Taliban and matters like these are not religious matters, they are matters of human rights and should be discussed and condemned. Discussion of any level of openness can be done without using some "colorful" words for a religion or country . You are right,  vast majority of the posters at ICF are decent and educated people but the "trouble makers" are more active,  although fewer  in number. 

[sandeep]

27 minutes ago, First class said:

If you have a better and more educated explanation for the big difference in  covid 19 stats in Pakistan and India, I would like to know that. If you think the stats are just a propaganda ,  then you belong to a different class. There is no question the immune response to virus has been different in Pakistan and India and reason is not proven yet, but different theories has been proposed. 

The fundamental pre-requisite when it comes to "interpreting" statistical data-sets, is to understand sample set size and quality.  If you do not take that into account, you are highly likely to draw erroneous inferences.  Now I know that you possess the basic ability to recognize this simple fact - but for patriotic reasons and simple confirmation bias, are choosing to gloss over it.  Let's put aside speculations about why they are low, or whether there is data-fudging going on, intentionally or otherwise.  Do you deny that the testing levels in Pakistan, are orders of magnitude lower than other places?

 

Even if we make the assumption that the documented low levels of testing in Pakistan are not a problem, and somehow magically are accurately reflecting the spread of the disease, let's move on to the next part of your absurd claims.  You say this:  

Quote

There is no question the immune response to virus has been different in Pakistan and India

There is simply no evidence to even suggest, let alone prove, that the "immune response" in the 2 countries are 'different'.  Both countries, and indeed the entire planet, is in a very early stage of capturing data regarding the actual spread of the virus, and how any sort of sliced population segments have differing "immune response".  

 

Even setting aside the incomplete picture available in Pakistan due to limited testing, and the well-known limitations of its healthcare infrastructure, are you claiming that the recovery rates and fatality rates in India and Pakistan can be accurately compared, and support the assertion that the "immune responses" are different? 

 

Let's put on our magical thinking hat, and take this as a given, that somehow the "immune responses" are different. How in the world do you support the stupid conjecture that its due to some sort of "GENETIC" differences.  Based on what data? Have you even bothered to look into the genetic datasets that can be compared across the artificial national boundaries that were drawn in 1947? Forget Covid, simply in terms of regional comparisons, are there any documented differences between the "genetics" of a Pakistani Punjabi vs an Indian Punjabi?  

 

Bottomline is that with this virus being so new and different in how it spreads and behaves, there simply isn't enough data and evidence to draw conclusions of this nature.  Unless you are starting with a pre-determined desire to believe in some sort of connived "differences".

 

As somebody who proudly proclaims being a Doctor, you ought to be much better than indulging such childish fantasies of "genetic differences".  They are as likely as some dhoti-clad astrologer claiming that COVID will spare India due to some astrological alignment of Rahu-ketu etc, or some bearded mullah claiming that the "righteous believers" will be spared from COVID due to their faith.  All 3 of these claims have one thing in common - zero evidence.  

[sandeep]

19 minutes ago, First class said:

Unfortunately ( or fortunately) I'm not a very religious person but strongly believe people possess a special feeling about their religion in their heart and that should be respected, all religions including hinduism and Islam . But that doesn't mean we should not be discussing religious matter in a forum like this . Blasphemy laws, terrorism, Taliban and matters like these are not religious matters, they are matters of human rights and should be discussed and condemned. Discussion of any level of openness can be done without using some "colorful" words for a religion or country . You are right,  vast majority of the posters at ICF are decent and educated people but the "trouble makers" are more active,  although fewer  in number. 

Unfortunately, the 'trouble makers' often are more motivated to 'make noise' and parade their ignorance.  As a moderator, I hold some responsibility for this forum, and I try to clean up the egregious violations when I see them.  But its not the easiest of tasks - first of all, I can only spare so much time for this, and am heavily dependent on folks using the "report post" mechanism to identify issues.  I would urge you to help keep this forum cleaner, and make it a better space for interaction and discussion, by reporting any and all posts you see that cross the line.  

[First class]

6 hours ago, sandeep said:

Unfortunately, the 'trouble makers' often are more motivated to 'make noise' and parade their ignorance.  As a moderator, I hold some responsibility for this forum, and I try to clean up the egregious violations when I see them.  But its not the easiest of tasks - first of all, I can only spare so much time for this, and am heavily dependent on folks using the "report post" mechanism to identify issues.  I would urge you to help keep this forum cleaner, and make it a better space for interaction and discussion, by reporting any and all posts you see that cross the line.  

Thanks for managing world's best cricket forum and other discussion forums which provides everyone with an opportunity to express his/her views , for free.  Its all up to us to keep it a clean and peaceful place. Its like you are providing your property for  us to have a good time and in return just asking to keep it clean, that's  not too much to ask, I will do my best and hope everyone too. 

[sandeep]

 

And the PakMil Mafia looting continues.... we don't have anybody on ICF from karachi do we?

 

@Autonomous is a Lahore boy, @First class is a New Jersey dude.  

 

 

 

[Autonomous]

5 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

And the PakMil Mafia looting continues.... we don't have anybody on ICF from karachi do we?

 

@Autonomous is a Lahore boy, @First class is a New Jersey dude.  

 

 

 

Sab lip service hai. Nothing will happen