Ok Calm your tits everyone

[New guy]

4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Attempting a low percentage chance at a "freak" win, or to try and "entertain" paying customers is not what the Indian team is there for.  They are there to win the World Cup. 

Which as you yourself claimed would not matter right? Or are you going back on your words? It wouldn't matter if they threw bats around as this match didn't matter according to you 

 

 

Public watches these ad for revenue and sponsorship, it is a huge slap in their face. Its good that hero worshiping fans have made cricket the fiefdom of powerful cricketers. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by New guy

[New guy]

Just now, velu said:

I think we will face NZ

Hopefully. But we are likely to be 2 or 3 while England will be same after beating nz. If they don't, pak can edge England out 

[maniac]

26 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Is entertainment a higher priority than team objectives?

 

Why do you always insist on fabricating fake strawman arguments?   I'm all ears if you have some, any, legitimate counterpoints to make.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  No issues.  But its pathetic bullshit like this that makes me treat you like a buzzing mosquito. 

Deliberately losing is a crime. It is predetermining an outcome of the game. Sure no money was involved in this case but still falls in the same category.  

 

Also yes fans are the most important part of cricket and they pay good value to see their team win not some dumb team objective. They can play chess a sport no one watches if they want to play on strategies.

 

Also what is this new argument that Dhoni and Jadhav were not capable and hence they shut down shop? If they are not capable what are they doing on a team from a country that has a million aspirants that dream to take up the spot.

[kubrickian]

Some people just have too much time on their hands. They just need a reason to complain. The best thing to do is to stay away from social media as much as possible because it will waste your time over trivial things. Just enjoy cricket as a game and have an occasional discussion, that's it.

Edited July 1, 2019 by kubrickian

[sandeep]

21 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

India too have finally picked Pant now in the squad and that migh very well be a good sign for us. 

+1.

 

Add to this, if ECB continues its manipulation of ground conditions, and in the last 2 games if we see a situation where spinners are at a sever disadvantage - we can seriously consider countering with BBS.   Think back to yesterday's game where Bhuvi provided his usual control in the 1st and last 10.  While instead of the spinners bleeding for 160 in 20, they'd have Shami to deal with for 10 of those. 

 

Australia recognized the gaping hole in their bowling with NCN and Zampa -replaced them, and benefited.  We have improved our middle order batting correctly with Pant coming in.  That is what champion teams do.  They adapt to the situation and figure out a winning solution.  Not cry about their media coverage, or get their board to shorten the boundaries to the minimum allowed legal distance.

 

 

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, New guy said:

 As you yourself claimed win or lose would make no difference but entertainment does.

You seem to have missed a relevant portion of the opening post:

Quote

ake a step back and think about the psychological implication of yesterday's game - India batted with exaggerated caution, took minimal risk, and still managed to get to a reasonably decent platform at around the 35th over - sure about 20 runs short of the perfect platform, but still decent. Even with "giving up", the team still scored 70+ in the last 10 overs, and got to within 30 runs of the target.   England now know that even with an early wicket, and even with 28 runs in the 1st 10 overs, India are comfortably capable of getting to 320+ in 50 overs - more if they really needed to. 

 

 

[maniac]

46 minutes ago, zen said:

Iirc, Ind needed around 260 in last 30 overs. 338 was turned this into an extremely difficult task where only a miraculous inning could bail us out 

 

On 2nd thoughts, I think Dhoni sent the mesg that you can’t make things improbable for the middle and lower middle order

 

The top order plays in a way where they can pick the balls to hit, while guys in the middle are left with no such option. They have to go for both the good and bad balls, increasing risks. Just because some of these guys can hit from ball 1, it does not mean you keep creating improbably situations for them 

 this is a new one. Dhoni delivering a message to the top order by blocking in the final 10. I expected a bot like Rasgulla to come up

with something like this . 

 

Fine looks like dhoni has been delivering this message for the past the last few years and failing at it.  Since he sucks at delivering this message. He needs to be fired on that alone

[maniac]

5 minutes ago, kubrickian said:

Some people just have too much time on their hands. They just need a reason to complain. The best thing to do is to stay away from social media as much as possible because it will waste your time over trivial things. Just enjoy cricket as a game and have an occasional discussion, that's it.

Thanks for delivering that valuable message on a cricket forum where the sole objective is to discuss various perspectives pertaining to cricket

[coffee_rules]

At least, this loss didn't hurt much to our chances, no major damage done to NRR , would have been good if Dhoni and Jadhav had shown intent , may be they were given instructions to ensure score past 300 first snd then go for it..

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

Deliberately losing is a crime. It is predetermining an outcome of the game. Sure no money was involved in this case but still falls in the same category.

This is what I mean when I talk about over-reaction.  Ridiculous. 

 

5 minutes ago, maniac said:

Also yes fans are the most important part of cricket and they pay good value to see their team win not some dumb team objective. They can play chess a sport no one watches if they want to play on strategies.

Plenty of times when teams rest important players for bilateral series, tri-nation tournaments, even during World Cup league games.  Is that "chess"?  Its all part of team strategy in the larger context of the tournament.  And while as a fan we don't like it, understandably, its acceptable. 

 

6 minutes ago, maniac said:

Also what is this new argument that Dhoni and Jadhav were not capable and hence they shut down shop? If they are not capable what are they doing on a team from a country that has a million aspirants that dream to take up the spot.

Its a question of cold blooded probabilities.  At the 42nd over mark, given the sluggish nature of the pitch, where elite hitters like Pandya and Pant were also having trouble smacking the ball, the chances were low for the last pair to match the asking rate.  If it was a knock-out game, sure, I would expect and demand a different approach.   And such a 'performance' would be unacceptable.

 

As it is, I don't like it much - and I stated that right up top - but there is *some* logic to the choice.  Doesn't have to be one we like, agree with, or want to see.  But its there. 

 

[Cricketics]

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

+1.

 

Add to this, if ECB continues its manipulation of ground conditions, and in the last 2 games if we see a situation where spinners are at a sever disadvantage - we can seriously consider countering with BBS.   Think back to yesterday's game where Bhuvi provided his usual control in the 1st and last 10.  While instead of the spinners bleeding for 160 in 20, they'd have Shami to deal with for 10 of those. 

 

Australia recognized the gaping hole in their bowling with NCN and Zampa -replaced them, and benefited.  We have improved our middle order batting correctly with Pant coming in.  That is what champion teams do.  They adapt to the situation and figure out a winning solution.  Not cry about their media coverage, or get their board to shorten the boundaries to the minimum allowed legal distance.

 

 

if we are to play BBS, I think it will be high time to try it against BD before as BD might struggle pace. 

 

Also I must say, I wish we had a place for Karthik down the order but its looking really hard to fit in Karthik let alone give him. single chance. Pant is likely to play now the next game and there is no way to pick Karthik now as we will be a bowler short if we drop Jadhav and hence they would likely pick Jadeja who could bowl overs. 

 

It sucks as I really feel we could use Karthik at this time of the tournament where pitches will get slower and his hitting could be vital at the lower order. 

[rangeelaraja]

1 minute ago, Cricketics said:

if we are to play BBS, I think it will be high time to try it against BD before as BD might struggle pace. 

 

Also I must say, I wish we had a place for Karthik down the order but its looking really hard to fit in Karthik let alone give him. single chance. Pant is likely to play now the next game and there is no way to pick Karthik now as we will be a bowler short if we drop Jadhav and hence they would likely pick Jadeja who could bowl overs. 

 

It sucks as I really feel we could use Karthik at this time of the tournament where pitches will get slower and his hitting could be vital at the lower order. 

@Cricketics   

 

Nopes. Below is the 7. Why do you think KL is immune from being dropped ?

 

 

Mayank

ROhit

Kohli

Dhoni

Pant

Karthik

Pandya

 

 

+  4 bowlers

 

 

 

 

[Rightarmfast]

Imagine the Australian team of late 90's and early 2000. Would they shut shop? Would they play anything else but aggressive? If we want to be at the top, we need to keep proving it all the time, we need to be ruthless. 

 

And thereby lies the difference between a great team and just a good team. What feels bad is, the team is beatable not because of lack of talent, but because every time a wrong selection is being done just to benefit a handful. And everybody's turning a blind eye to it.

[rangeelaraja]

Just now, rangeelaraja said:

@Cricketics   

 

Nopes. Below is the 7. Why do you think KL is immune from being dropped ?

 

 

Mayank

ROhit

Kohli

Dhoni

Pant

Karthik

Pandya

 

 

+  4 bowlers

 

 

 

 

@Cricketics

 

When rest of the teams have  a gun middle and lower order - we need to pack ours too. 

 

KL is a meek pu$$Y - adds no value. People have already forgotten how DK scored literally 40 of 2 overs to win us the Asia Cup against Bangladesh

[maniac]

25 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Who would those be?  We have one 'finisher'.  Who bats with a high risk approach, and delivers runs for us more often than not. But that's one guy.  Rest are opportunistic parasite type batsmen, who depend on gap-hitting, and bowler mistakes to find boundaries. 

 

When as a team, you know that you don't have finishers (plural), you can't give yourself the luxury of scoring at 3 to 4 runs per over for more than a third of the game.  There is no Uber-Eats or Swiggy to deliver these mythological finishers, from the Udipi down the road, with extra chutney on the side.  Its a team game.  And a team responsibility to "Finish" chases.  Top order can't just talk about "seeing off the new ball", "building a platform" and sit on its fat Vada Pav arse after handing off a 10 RPO asking rate for the last 17 overs.  That's selfish.  Simple as.

To quote @Adi BB on one hand you are ok with Dhoni and Jadhav shutting down at 5 wickets down because there is no batting after them but Rohit and Virat are supposed to take all the risks being the top 2 batsmen in the side with apparently only 3 other bats to follow  who might give up citing the reason discussed above  

 

Simple it was a phattu approach.

 

14 rpo is not an excuse to start blocking. It gives you an excuse and a way in to have some fun  by trying massive hoicks  or a dumb shot or 2

[sandeep]

6 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

if we are to play BBS, I think it will be high time to try it against BD before as BD might struggle pace. 

 

Also I must say, I wish we had a place for Karthik down the order but its looking really hard to fit in Karthik let alone give him. single chance. Pant is likely to play now the next game and there is no way to pick Karthik now as we will be a bowler short if we drop Jadhav and hence they would likely pick Jadeja who could bowl overs. 

 

It sucks as I really feel we could use Karthik at this time of the tournament where pitches will get slower and his hitting could be vital at the lower order. 

I believe against teams like BD and even SL, its a better bet to go with BBS.  But it depends majorly on conditions.  People fail to realize how much impact conditions have on the game results.  If yesterday's game was played on a proper road, India would have chased 338 down in 48 overs.   Of course, England probably would have scored 388 instead of 338.  But that's the point - conditions matter.  A lot.

[rangeelaraja]

Just now, maniac said:

To quote @Adi BB on one hand you are ok with Dhoni and Jadhav shutting down at 5 wickets down because there is no batting after them but Rohit and Virat are supposed to take all the risks being the top 2 batsmen in the side with apparently only 3 other bats to follow  who might give up citing the reason discussed above  

 

Simple it was a phattu approach.

 

14 rpo is not an excuse to start blocking. It gives you an excuse and a way in to have some fun  by trying massive hoicks  or a dumb shot or 2

Dk would have got us close to winning. He scored 40 of 2 overs against Bang to win us Asia Cup.

 

He is the best finisher in INdia

[Cricketics]

4 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

@Cricketics   

 

Nopes. Below is the 7. Why do you think KL is immune from being dropped ?

 

 

Mayank

ROhit

Kohli

Dhoni

Pant

Karthik

Pandya

 

 

+  4 bowlers

 

 

 

 

I am hesitant to replace Kl with a new opener because it not just unsettles our opening batting, but it puts pressure on Rohit Sharma too.

 

Rohit has to adjust to another opening partner. He has already done that with Dhawan getting injured and then looked little iffy with Rahul for few games until he found his groove again. So now removing Rahul and then going to Aggarwal will be basically putting more pressure on Rohit. If Aggarwal takes his time to settle in, Rohit might start playing a different game under pressure and throw away his wicket. We don't want 30-2 with Kohli and Dhoni batting in 10 overs in semi final.

 

And also what if Aggarwal fails in next two games against Bangla and SL? We will then again go back to Rahul for semi final game. Thats like putting pressure on all 3 - Rohit, Rahul and Aggarwal. 

 

I would stick with Rahul at top now for this game. I thought he was finding form in the West Indies match. Time to back Rahul now till the end of the tournament. 

 

[Cricketics]

6 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

@Cricketics

 

When rest of the teams have  a gun middle and lower order - we need to pack ours too. 

 

KL is a meek pu$$Y - adds no value. People have already forgotten how DK scored literally 40 of 2 overs to win us the Asia Cup against Bangladesh

I like the inclusion of DK as a lower order but but if we play him for Jadhav, then we struggle to find bowlers to complete the rest of the overs incase Pandua goes for runs or something. 

 

I always would like Karthik over Jadhav as a finisher. Karthik is underrated finisher. 

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Imagine the Australian team of late 90's and early 2000. Would they shut shop? Would they play anything else but aggressive? If we want to be at the top, we need to keep proving it all the time, we need to be ruthless. 

 

And thereby lies the difference between a great team and just a good team. What feels bad is, the team is beatable not because of lack of talent, but because every time a wrong selection is being done just to benefit a handful. And everybody's turning a blind eye to it.

Another myth of the "great" Australian team of the 2000s that did no wrong.  That team did bunch of things wrong.  Their star spinner took drugs to hide his steroid usage.  Their star players took bookie money and their board covered it up.  That team unfairly treated quality players like Damien Martyn, Simon Katich etc.  Played crap cricket and gave Mathew Hayden a chance to break Lara's record against Zimbabwe.  Then whinged worse than England, when Lara broke it again, against England, not a minnow like Zim. 

 

Plenty of **** things done by that so-called great team.  But once a team wins consistently for years and years, people looking back in history tend to view them with rose-tinted glasses. 

 

When I went to Barbados for the WT20, I met a Trinidadian couple who were also cricket fans - you know what they told me?  That they saw the Australian team pull an Afridi and pound the playing surface area with their spikes during the WC final in 2007.  With their own eyes.