Move over Brat Papa's in town

[R!TTER]

24 minutes ago, Insidious said:

In odis Smith is a clutch player but he is not better than Kohli. Just because VVS laxman is clutch test Batsman, does it mean he is better than Tendulkar? 

If you apply the same logic then Gambhir > Tendulkar in Odis because he is more clutch player than Tendulkar.

Right like his 7 or 8 failures don't count, or do they 

 

What logic is that? SRT has more good innings (albeit many in a losing cause) than VVS & against all oppositions home/away it also helps that he did play a lot more tests & batted higher as well, same applies vs GG although the latter has a sample set of 1 WC (vs 6) - if you didn't know that already.

VVS was a 4th innings specialist for sure but if you remove Oz, you can count his "great innings" on one finger against other oppositions.

[R!TTER]

12 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Knock in a lost cause like Dhoni in 2015 and 2019.

Oh please Dhongi didn't even try in 2015, nor 2019 as it was a complete Jad show, while Smith has 3 (4?) 50+ scores in WC KO now 

[retired_hurt]

Apart from Gilchrist's innings in 2007 final, which other batsmen have scored in a knockout while chasing?

 

While Kohli is rightly castigated for failing in knockouts, we must also consider the fact that in most of the matches India was chasing. Smith, Ponting etc scored while batting first.

[R!TTER]

I never said anything about that, conveniently this is the same argument used against SRT. However he failed batting first against Pak in 2011, BD in 2015 & that's it. You can count the CT 2013 final as a good innings, however it was T20 game at the end of it so I wouldn't put it anything beyond that.

[R!TTER]

11 minutes ago, retired_hurt said:

Apart from Gilchrist's innings in 2007 final,

That was batting first, only Aravinda has scored a hundred while chasing IIRC, helped by the dew just like 2011 for us.

[VT87]

9 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by VT87

[VT87]

I'm waiting if aus lose this match so ,will people term smith ing useless? As they did for virat 

[R!TTER]

I'm not sure why so many are trying to deny basic facts - fact (1) S is a better test bat than Brat.

 

(2) SS has 4 50+ scores in WC KO, Kohli has none (big 0) & has failed in most KO games (ODI) he's played in, the vast majority of them in fact.

 

(3) Kohli would still probably end up as a top 5 ODI bat, but Smith will be remembered (more) for his crucial WC innings even if most of them came batting first.

[Bigg Brother]

41 minutes ago, retired_hurt said:

Apart from Gilchrist's innings in 2007 final, which other batsmen have scored in a knockout while chasing?

 

While Kohli is rightly castigated for failing in knockouts, we must also consider the fact that in most of the matches India was chasing. Smith, Ponting etc scored while batting first.

Then what is the point of being labelled as "Chase Master"?? 

[retired_hurt]

I am not denying that Kohli has been sub par in the world cups he has played or he has failed to delivered in the knockouts or he averages more batting second.

 

I am just adding some context that he has been unfortunate to be chasing in most of his knockout matches and the examples being given of mentally strong batsmen who have performed in pressure matches have also failed while batting second. 

[RAZPOR]

Kaptaan is a choker when it comes to big moments , don't care for useless bilateral records

[Pollack]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Knock in a lost cause like Dhoni in 2015 and 2019.

Really? Did Dhoni even try??

[kaptaan]

[Deleted_User_1]

We all knew Rat is a nuisance rodent who needs to be eliminated. 

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, Nikola said:

Agree. If anyone from fab four has best technique to play in tough conditions then it's Kane Williamson. 

Kane has the most classical technique, which is not the same as the "best" technique IMO. People like Chanders and Smith do have high technique, albeit of an unconventional kind.

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, SK_IH said:

Kane should not be understated. He scored runs in the semis and led his team to a WC final tie. Not to forget his masterclass 2nd innings display in the desert last year. He along with Smith is different gravy and clutch, its proven now. The Rat can take all his ODI records and build his brand.

Kane is IMO on par with Stewie as an ODI bat. But he has a way to go in Tests. Yes, there have been some masterclass innings in Tests too, but he has failed in 3 of the major test countries from a NZ perspective: an avg of 35 in Ind (so-so), avg of 30 in Eng (bad), and an avg of 21 in SA (damning). he may boost his SA avg because of their decline but what matters is being able to turn it on against Steyn and co during SA peak yrs.

 

Mind you, I am not trying to diss Kane here. Just saying that Stewie is the most "effective" test batsman in the world. Overall, my order in Tests is: Stewie > Kane > Rat > Root

 

In ODIs, if I go only by tournaments that matter (multi-nation ones), for me it is: Smith > Kane (but almost equal) > Kohli > Root

 

It is only in T20s where Rat and Root comfortably lead over the other 2.

[Pollack]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

Kane is IMO on par with Stewie as an ODI bat. But he has a way to go in Tests. Yes, there have been some masterclass innings in Tests too, but he has failed in 3 of the major test countries from a NZ perspective: an avg of 35 in Ind (so-so), avg of 30 in Eng (bad), and an avg of 21 in SA (damning). he may boost his SA avg because of their decline but what matters is being able to turn it on against Steyn and co during SA peak yrs.

 

Mind you, I am not trying to diss Kane here. Just saying that Stewie is the most "effective" test batsman in the world. Overall, my order in Tests is: Stewie > Kane > Rat > Root

 

In ODIs, if I go only by tournaments that matter (multi-nation ones), for me it is: Smith > Kane (but almost equal) > Kohli > Root

 

It is only in T20s where Rat and Root comfortably lead over the other 2.

Actually Rat had some amazing form during his exquisite t20I exploits. He now plays mostly percentage cricket in t20s too like always but unlike when he was in tremendous form, I suspect he wouldn't be able to accelerate now till the next purple patch hits.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Pollack

[rkt.india]

4 hours ago, Pollack said:

Really? Did Dhoni even try??

I am just saying Smith's SF innings was useless as Dhoni's. Neither did Smith try with an SR of 71.

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, R!TTER said:

Oh please Dhongi didn't even try in 2015, nor 2019 as it was a complete Jad show, while Smith has 3 (4?) 50+ scores in WC KO now 

and I said 3rd one was useless as Dhoni's.  SR of 71 was an epitome of not trying.

[vayuu1]

Lo ji ab burns kiska papa hai,in his first match against Australia has scored a very crucial knock, ab wo bhi clutch,brake,accelarator ,gear player hai haina .