The myth of Pakistani "warriors"

[Stradlater]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

They were never really independent, mostly being vassals to the various surrounding empires. Also, IIRC Yaudheyas weren’t from Punjab proper but from Haryana region. 

Bhai they were autonomous states during the early Christian era and later became independent again when Kushana power shrunk. 

[Stradlater]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

They were never really independent, mostly being vassals to the various surrounding empires. Also, IIRC Yaudheyas weren’t from Punjab proper but from Haryana region. 

Yes Yaudheyas were from Haryana but the cis satluj region where they ruled has always historically been considered as a part of Punjab. 

Johiya Rajputs are their descendants. Pity most of them converted. 

[Muloghonto]

12 hours ago, Stradlater said:

Yes Yaudheyas were from Haryana but the cis satluj region where they ruled has always historically been considered as a part of Punjab. 

Johiya Rajputs are their descendants. Pity most of them converted. 

Well historically speaking, via-satluj wasn’t part of Punjab until the Sikh empire conquered it. Typically most travellers to India considered Punjab to begin/end (depending on direction) at the Beas-Sutlej confluence. But I suppose we can consider it Punjab. 

[Muloghonto]

13 hours ago, Stradlater said:

Bhai they were autonomous states during the early Christian era and later became independent again when Kushana power shrunk. 

Very briefly, before they became vassals to Samudragupta, within 50-60 years of independence from Kushans. 

 

I have always held the whole notion of ‘ province being governed by governors  braking away in times of instability, only to be conquered again’ as independent polity as a very grey area. 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Muloghonto

[Mariyam]

@Muloghonto Why did you study engineering/science? I remember you saying in another thread that you work in the metallurgical engineering vertical.  You clearly like history.

 

[Muloghonto]

2 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

@Muloghonto Why did you study engineering/science? I remember you saying in another thread that you work in the metallurgical engineering vertical.  You clearly like history.

 

I used to work in metallurgical engineering before and that is what actually sparked my interest in history. Though I talk a lot about political and cultural history, I really feel the most at home with history of metallurgy, how exactly the magadh coins differ, it’s prevalence compared to the Aureus, composition of various swords and spears etc. 

[Stradlater]

On 11/10/2019 at 2:34 AM, Mariyam said:

@Muloghonto Why did you study engineering/science? I remember you saying in another thread that you work in the metallurgical engineering vertical.  You clearly like history.

 

Lol as if any Indian ever went on to study the subjects they loved. 

My dad told me in clear words that arts wagera (I got 99 marks in my social studies 10th) were for weak students and I had to choose between maths or bio. 

[mishra]

Terms like "Terrorist", "fantics", "Jihadist", "Army", "ISI", "Liars" can easily be associated with word "Pakistani" and used in same sentence and no one , nowhere in world will have any issue.

 

"Warrior" along with "Pakistani" in op sounds gross

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, Stradlater said:

Lol as if any Indian ever went on to study the subjects they loved. 

My dad told me in clear words that arts wagera (I got 99 marks in my social studies 10th) were for weak students and I had to choose between maths or bio. 

I got 99 too! My highest marks were that in Sanskrit.  To this day I'm proud of my 98 in Sanskrit.  

[coffee_rules]

I was also very high scorer  in SS, esp History and Civics. I should have joined civil services, but forced to be an E&C Engineer! (I dress well though!).

When I retire, I will pursue a degree in humantics/social sciences of some university like DU/Karnatak and pursue scholarly work in my areas of interest. Challenging the current status quo of western academia hold over matters of Indian classical texts is very important. More people should do this not just for correcting it, but also for the nation building / soft power and economic growth, 

[Mariyam]

On 11/12/2019 at 4:03 PM, Stradlater said:

Lol as if any Indian ever went on to study the subjects they loved. 

My dad told me in clear words that arts wagera (I got 99 marks in my social studies 10th) were for weak students and I had to choose between maths or bio. 

I did!

[MechEng]

On 11/12/2019 at 4:33 AM, Stradlater said:

Lol as if any Indian ever went on to study the subjects they loved. 

My dad told me in clear words that arts wagera (I got 99 marks in my social studies 10th) were for weak students and I had to choose between maths or bio. 

You will find it funny/weird to know that I chose mechanical engineering before undergrad because I found Iron Man cool.

 

Besides, your dad was realistic (like any other Indian parent). India does not yet have an economy where all talents can thrive, which is why security is important and go for engineering/management/medicine. This is changing now due to rise of stand up comedy culture in India.

Edited November 13, 2019 by MechEng

[MechEng]

On 11/12/2019 at 10:28 AM, coffee_rules said:

I was also very high scorer  in SS, esp History and Civics. I should have joined civil services, but forced to be an E&C Engineer! (I dress well though!).

When I retire, I will pursue a degree in humantics/social sciences of some university like DU/Karnatak and pursue scholarly work in my areas of interest. Challenging the current status quo of western academia hold over matters of Indian classical texts is very important. More people should do this not just for correcting it, but also for the nation building / soft power and economic growth, 

Join Rajiv Malhotra's Infinity Foundation.

[Vilander]

8 hours ago, MechEng said:

I chose mechanical engineering before undergrad because I found Iron Man cool.

you thought iron man suit needed only mech engineering even as a high school student that's pathetically stupid.

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

you thought iron man suit needed only mech engineering even as a high school student that's pathetically stupid.

That is how curiosity is developed for anyone in all fields. No kid would study mechanical engineering because he's eagerly waiting to solve partial differential equations in Matlab.

[coffee_rules]

8 hours ago, MechEng said:

That is how curiosity is developed for anyone in all fields. No kid would study mechanical engineering because he's eagerly waiting to solve partial differential equations in Matlab.

Strange to say for somebody who is opposed to Chandrayaan!

[MechEng]

4 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Strange to say for somebody who is opposed to Chandrayaan!

Not opposed to it but prioritize it later by setting up a string base first - higher standard of living.

[vice]

On 11/8/2019 at 10:18 AM, chewy said:

Its reflected in their cricket, full of punjabis, but cant play short ball stuff at all, they approach it like cowards, look so scared against bounce and pace. 

Easy there

If you want to hate on Pakistan go ahead but let’s not lump all Punjabis and try to pass such statements.  Don’t confuse Pakistanis with Punjabis but even then can’t believe you’re going to make me ‘defend’ Pakistan by including Punjabis here but let’s get some things out of the way:

Cricket has very few top teams playing international cricket and looking at the overall history, Pakistan has been a top tier cricket team.  Ironically, despite the blip in this century, Pakistan still has a better W/L Test record than India, and is only behind Australia and England. Moreover, Pakistan still enjoys better Test and ODI head to head against India, though India has obviously enjoyed the head to head in WCs..  Pakistan also one of the few teams to have won a World Cup, a T20 WC, Champions Trophy, and even had their hands on the #1 Test spot albeit for a short time.  Quite a few world class fast pacers emerging out of Pakistan were all Punjabis i.e Wasim Akram, Shoaib Akhter, Waqar Younis,etc.

Pakistan was also one of the top teams in hockey with Olympic medals and the most World Cups, and going by your statement, the hockey team was also mostly made up of by Punjabis.

[vice]

Coming to Indian Punjabis, oh boy you’re in for a surprise. Some of the most iconic players and the players part of the Indian team winning the world cup were Punjabis. For starters, supposedly the “first fast pacer” from India, Kapil Dev, has Punjabi roots.  The likes of Bishen Singh Bedi, part of the Indian spin quartet was a Punjabi. Virat Kohli,  Jasprit Bumrah, Gautam Gambhir, Shikar Dhawan all have Punjabi roots. Navjot Sidhu, Yuvraj Singh, Harbhajan Singh all Punjabis. Mohinder Amarnath, again Punjabi roots.

 

Prominent Indian players of Punjabi ethnic roots:
Kapil Dev, Virat Kohli, Shikar Dhawan, Gautam Gambhir, Jasprit Bumrah, Navjot S Sidhu, Harbhajan Singh, Yuvraj Singh, B Sandhu, Mohinder Amarnath, Yashpal Sharma, Madan Lal, Bishen Singh Bedi, Lala Amarnath.

 

 

1983 WC Finals Team had 5 players in the Final of Punjabi roots: Kapil, Mohinder Amarnath, Yashpal Sharma, Madan Lal, Sandhu. Mohinder Amarnath being the man of the match and led by Kapil Dev.

 

2007 T20 WC had 3 Punjabi ethnic players in Gambhir, Yuvi, Harbhajan. Gambhir being the man of the match in the final and Yuvraj Singh had a stellar tournament.

 

2011 WC team had 4 players of Punjabi background in Gambhir, Kohli, Yuvi, Harbhajan.  Gambhir once again set up the finals for India and Yuvraj was the man of the series.

 

Like it or not, players of Punjabi ethnic roots have always played an important part right throughout the history of Indian cricket.

 

Don’t forget hockey, Punjabis have dominated the sport and brought back Olympic medals for India at the highest stage. The number of prominent hockey players of Punjabi roots is a huge list but let me just recall the great Balbir Singh Sr (Dosanjh), legendary hockey player, again a Punjabi, considered GOAT especially considering he played in a more competitive era than Dhyan Chand.    Numerous Punjabi hockey players follow suit. Look up any Indian hockey teams and they have always been comprised of at least 30-50% of players of Punjabi roots. A single village, Sansarpur, out of Punjab has produced over a dozen Olympic players let alone the entirety of Punjab and Punjabis. 

 

The two most popular sports in India and Punjabis have more than made their mark in both.

[vice]

If  using sport as  a measure, what do make of Bangladeshis which is comprised of Bengalis?  They have the worst returns of any South Asian cricket team in history. They have the worst Test record of any nation after 100 Tests.  A newbie Afghanistan team beat them in their own backyard, that too in Test cricket.  That’s shameful. Haven’t won even one notable World tournament and their pathetic Test record is nothing to speak about. Bangladesh, full of Bengalis, has produced zilch.  All they have produced is Shakib, and a premature ejaculation midget Mushy.  In fact, forget about Bangladeshis, Indian Bengalis cricketers are a rarity.  Apart from Saurav Ganguly, hardly any top class Bengali cricketer emerged to have made an impact.