Why are liberals in India so enamored of Pakistan?

[coffee_rules]

35 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

From the article you've linked:

 

“What really makes me upset is that it’s being done just to go with the popular narrative. I can understand when a filmmaker has researched something and a filmmaker wants to make a point… Of course, there can be different viewpoints. If you want to demonise the Mughals, please base it on some research and make us understand why, why they were the villains that you think they were.” sic.

 

Fair enough?

yes that might be fair enough, but the next part is what we are debating..

 

”He went on to add that if proper research is done and history consulted, ‘it’s very tough to understand why they have to be villainised’. “I think they were the original nation-builders, and to write them off and say they massacred people… But what are you basing it on? Please point out the historical evidence,” the filmmaker said.”

 

What is nation building? Nation based on India’s heritage or their own Persian influence religious nation? Why should Moghuls be appreciated for India’s nation  building. 
 

Historical evidence of their doings are documented by their court poets, who have described  their kaarnaame in glorifying detail. There are matching Persian and Indian accounts of administration policies like jizya, conversion. forced marriages to Hindu princesses, etc

 

On a tangent from what Kabir Khan said, Bollywood scholars have a version of “good” history which is kind to secularism , while any other narrative is based on bad research. Anupama Chopra interviewing Saifuddin  Ali Khan (bwood’s history buff) claimed Tanhaji is based on bad history because it showed Muslims in a bad way. I have not seen the movie, but what makes them to claim good vs bad history? Padmavati is also based on a poem like Anarkali.

[Lone Wolf]

There seem to be some issue with the Hotstar series as it potentially starts Mughal Empire franchise. 

Things I'd like to see in this series is Babur's inhumane acts as soon as he crosses Indus.  In an OTT platform it is possible to show ghore things as well. 

Rana Sangha's role..  Time to expose these so called Heroes. 

People who openly supported Babur..  & lodhi's idiotic battle formations. 

 

As much as we hate it..  Mughals are integral part of our history.  They ruled quite a massive landmass at least North India & expanded thereafter. 

Now Glorifying these f**** is bad but we have glorified certified losers like Prithviraj Chouhan as national hero Where Instead he should be listed as A grade level idiot & one of the most useless kings to born in India...  Who was busy in his ravishing lifestyle while Ghori was preparing & then ransacked Bhatinda.  There are plenty more examples like this. 

 

Only Hindu Kings that are worth a mention are Lalitaditya The GOAT king of Kashmir..  Who stopped The Arabs in Punjab & J&K & then Bappa Rawal of Malwa & few Chaulkyan kings. 

 

Shivaji of course later on...  Other than that Hindu kings have only done jack sh***. 

Ancient history has its share of bufoons but Guptas were the best by a country mile & Vikramaditya actually managed to beat the unbeatable Huns.  Too bad we don't  have exact actual records of those battles...  Coz they were the epic ones in our history. 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Lone Wolf

[dial_100]

I hate every single invader to the core. They were all barbaric. If they were so $ucking good human beings then they should have stayed back to the $hithole they came from and done the development there itself. 

 

Looting a temple 17 times, destroying 1000s of temples, destroying all of our literature, culture of our country, converting millions of people, there is nothing in this world that can convince me to accept these barbaric invaders were any good. All of them.  

 

Mind you, this has nothing to do with my views on present day muslims in India. They are as good or as bad as any other citizen of the country. 

 

Sorry for expressing my view strongly but that is how I feel about it.

 

I studies something in my history class. I went to my dad and asked him what exactly the real history was. He explained to me very simply without any mirch masala. My reaction was like, "Dad, this is horrible". "Dad, I refuse to learn, study, and attempt any questions in my exams on mughals, partition, british". He said son, it is your choice. I told him, off course, it was my own choice.

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

On Fri Aug 27 2021 at 10:16 PM, dial_100 said:

I hate every single invader to the core. They were all barbaric. If they were so $ucking good human beings then they should have stayed back to the $hithole they came from and done the development there itself. 

 

Looting a temple 17 times, destroying 1000s of temples, destroying all of our literature, culture of our country, converting millions of people, there is nothing in this world that can convince me to accept these barbaric invaders were any good. All of them.  

 

Mind you, this has nothing to do with my views on present day muslims in India. They are as good or as bad as any other citizen of the country. 

 

Sorry for expressing my view strongly but that is how I feel about it.

 

I studies something in my history class. I went to my dad and asked him what exactly the real history was. He explained to me very simply without any mirch masala. My reaction was like, "Dad, this is horrible". "Dad, I refuse to learn, study, and attempt any questions in my exams on mughals, partition, british". He said son, it is your choice. I told him, off course, it was my own choice.

 

 

Hate is actually fine..  Most idiotic thing is saying that Mughals aren't our history which they sure as hell are.  Glorifying them is wrong. 

Invaders are supposed to loot & plunder & ancient Persians Greeks Huns & other nomadic tribes have looted India & later Arabs & Turks. 

If our history books instead taught why did we lose..  There would be grim scenes. 

Instead we should learn from our past no matter how worse it was.  

[rkt.india]

On 8/27/2021 at 5:52 PM, Mariyam said:

From the article you've linked:

 

“What really makes me upset is that it’s being done just to go with the popular narrative. I can understand when a filmmaker has researched something and a filmmaker wants to make a point… Of course, there can be different viewpoints. If you want to demonise the Mughals, please base it on some research and make us understand why, why they were the villains that you think they were.” sic.

 

Fair enough?

Oh yes. Mughals came to your house, broke the door, kill a few people, destroyed stuff, captured your house and made you do his chores like a slave, also collected tax from you. In that process, they also built some mosques, tombs, made your house bigger while you were put in a cage. How well they built your house.

[Yoda-esque]

Oh yes. Mughals came to your house, broke the door, kill a few people, destroyed stuff, captured your house and made you do his chores like a slave, also collected tax from you. In that process, they also built some mosques, tombs, made your house bigger while you were put in a cage. How well they built your house.

Let's see I can think of mansabdari system that was introduced by Mughals.Other notable contributions are Mughlai cuisine although original Turkic Cuisine bears no resemblance to what we call Mughal cuisine ( source is ain I akbari)

Persian architecture.

 

Other contributions include new forms of torture,jizya, purdah.

 

Also secularism.

 

 

 

[Singh bling]

On 9/1/2021 at 10:30 PM, rkt.india said:

Oh yes. Mughals came to your house, broke the door, kill a few people, destroyed stuff, captured your house and made you do his chores like a slave, also collected tax from you. In that process, they also built some mosques, tombs, made your house bigger while you were put in a cage. How well they built your house.

The door was already broken after Prithviraj lost to ghauri. Read the religious policy of Sikander Lodi. He was as much religious fanatic as Aurangzeb. Compared to previous Muslim rulers Mughals were quite tolerant if you leave Aurangzeb.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Singh bling

[bharathh]

The rajputs and their misplaced valour of forgiving and allowing the kings that kept raiding them to retreat without harm is the reason for India to have suffered so much. They followed rules that were scoffed at by their enemies. That and of course the multiple betrayals by existing vassals of rules like Prithviraj Chauhan - whose general leading the Rajput army joined Babur in the attack of Chitoor despite Babur losing multiple times earlier. 

 

If Gauri had been eliminated earlier - India wouldn't have been under Islamic rulers. 

[Yoda-esque]

The door was already broken after Prithviraj lost to ghauri. Read the religious policy of Sikander Lodi. He was as much religious fanatic as Aurangzeb. Compared to previous Muslim rulers Mughals were quite tolerant if you leave Aurangzeb.

Rofl

[Mariyam]

1 hour ago, bharathh said:

The rajputs and their misplaced valour of forgiving and allowing the kings that kept raiding them to retreat without harm is the reason for India to have suffered so much. They followed rules that were scoffed at by their enemies. That and of course the multiple betrayals by existing vassals of rules like Prithviraj Chauhan - whose general leading the Rajput army joined Babur in the attack of Chitoor despite Babur losing multiple times earlier. 

 

If Gauri had been eliminated earlier - India wouldn't have been under Islamic rulers. 

Not a 100% sure, but I think you are mixing two different movies.

 

Help @Yoda-esque

[Mariyam]

Away from this oft repeated topic, an interesting usage factoid from the Wren and Martin territory.

 

Enamored of: When there is romantic interest in the subject.

Enamored with: when it's fascination/curousity.

 

[bharathh]

Sorry second one was supposed to be Rana Sanga... not Chauhan. Wrong centuries :)

 

But yes he was betrayed by his general in battle who joined Babur 

[Yoda-esque]

Look there's no doubt that the invaders came from Afghanistan ,Uzbekistan, Persia and did what they wanted to do.

Loot.

They simply used Jihad as the official instrument for doing so.And that's okay because none of our kings were united or maybe they failed to see the threat.All par for course.

But the torment and destruction of local identity,temples and libraries and forcing your religion on the local populace was something India had not seen before.

To call these barbarians as people who built India is a bit too much.

[ravishingravi]

Perhaps because of their economic ideas. 
 

 

 

[ravishingravi]

To be honest, the liberals are just old time communists. Since communism has such woeful track record, you can’t help but laugh at them. So liberal is just a pseudonym. 

[coffee_rules]

4 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

Perhaps because of their economic ideas. 
 

 

 

I think they do export donkeys to Chinese, don’t they?