Ponting's golden period performance betters Steve Smith's - Smith's steep downfall now is also very likely

[rangeelaraja]

Just now, sarchasm said:

 

The point is that these random 5 year and 7 year peak allows someone like Mohammad Yousuf to lay a claim among the very best.

 

 

 

I agree, Smith as great a player he is -- he is just one among many others as good or better than him. He is going through a purple patch.

 

I'd love to see how he shapes up when he looses his reflexes and hand eye coordination.

[Nikola]

9 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

And Ponting was similarly well ahead of his peers in a 5 year window. So whats your point ?

 

Ponting SO far ahead of the rest in his peak years

 

 

 

Ponting played as batsman in probably one of the best team to ever play test cricket. Smith in this period is carrying his team almost alone & he has scored these runs in more tough and pressure situation than ponting did and even against better attack.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Nikola

[rangeelaraja]

Just now, Nikola said:

 

Ponting played as batsman in probably one of the best team to ever play test cricket. Smith in this period is carrying his team almost alone. Smith has scored these runs in more tough and pressure situation than ponting did and even against better attack.

 

How do you judge a " better attack"  ? Ponting has done superbly against Donald, Pollock, Akhtar, Akram, Muralitharan..etc.

 

How is this a poorer attack than what Smith has faced ?

 

 

[MechEng]

10 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

His better performances in the final two tests were vs a very inexperienced Indian bowling attack. If we had him figured out with our front line attack, things likely would have been different. 

 

No, we have not figured out Smith yet. 

 

We bowled at our best to him, but he got out more due to not being in the zone than us figuring him out.

 

Steve Smith is a hand eye coordination player, no specific plan would work except for waiting for him to make mistakes.

[VT87]

14 minutes ago, Nikola said:

 

No, Smith has 75 avg.

 

Also if we filter runs scored against top 5 teams (home & away) he is well ahead of others.

 

Look  at Williamson is not even top 10  against  top 5 teams but one weirdo saying  he has 50 plus average in 5 countries and better than Kohli. It’s mind boggling how easily he escaped any scrutiny against better teams.

[Nikola]

1 minute ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

How do you judge a " better attack"  ? Ponting has done superbly against Donald, Pollock, Akhtar, Akram, Muralitharan..etc.

 

How is this a poorer attack than what Smith has faced ?

 

 

 

Did ponting face Donald, Akram during his peak period? (2002 -2007) what is his record in ashes & india? He didn't have as much pressure as smith has while batting. Go and check ashes 2005 when his team was in pressure and when was at his absolute peak all he could score is one ton in 10 innings.

[Serpico]

5 minutes ago, VT87 said:

Look  at Williamson is not even top 10  against  top 5 teams but one weirdo saying  he has 50 plus average in 5 countries and better than Kohli. It’s mind boggling how easily he escaped any scrutiny against better teams.

lol wut. He is not in top 10 in that image because it is sorted by runs. Kane don't get to play as many tests as others so his aggregate runs won't be high. Sort it by Average and he will be there. All this without the regular 4 test and 5 test series where a batsman have chance to comeback after initial failures. 

 

[kohli]

7 minutes ago, Nikola said:

 

Did ponting face Donald, Akram during his peak period? (2002 -2007) what is his record in ashes & india? He didn't have as much pressure as smith has while batting. Go and check ashes 2005 when his team was in pressure and when was at his absolute peak all he could score is one ton in 10 innings.

Peak ponting didn’t play in india ( only 2004 Mumbai).

[Adamant]

4 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

This goes to show that even a few bad years of form / playing with injury can bring down a near 60 average for 18 years for 157 tests !

 

it happened to SRT and Ponting - it will happen to Smith as well, if it has already not started. For those touting him as a GOAT after WW2, he will end up with a career average less than 53. Not to say that’s not great, but many others would have done it  as well. 

 

 

Nah brother, what you have missed here is that 59.8 is the highest average Sachin achieved while Steve Smiths highest was close to 65, so even if his downfall is as bad as Sachin, he will probably end up with an overall average close to Sachin's highest average. 

[rangeelaraja]

3 minutes ago, Nikola said:

 

Did ponting face Donald, Akram during his peak period? (2002 -2007) what is his record in ashes & india? He didn't have as much pressure as smith has while batting. Go and check ashes 2005 when his team was in pressure and when was at his absolute peak all he could score is one ton in 10 innings.

 

Ponting's utter  domination of fast bowers  is undisputed - Smith cannot hold a candle to Ponting in playing brute fast bowling. You single out one bad Ashes series to prove your erroneous argument. Have you seen Ponting's overall record ? Go do some analysis there.

 

And how do you measure " pressure " ? Do you have some barometer ? Or just use it as an excuse to prove your point? 

 

By your yardstick all Indian cricketers especially the major stars and captains must have their averages bettered by several points - because they are under the pressure the weight of expectations from 1.4 Billion people, 24*7 news .. compared to Smith who just has to face pressure of expectations from a puny population of 25/26 million.

[Nikola]

 

Man of the match (test cricket)

[kohli]

5 minutes ago, Serpico said:

lol wut. He is not in top 10 in that image because it is sorted by runs. Kane don't get to play as many tests as others so his aggregate runs won't be high. Sort it by Average and he will be there. All this without the regular 4 test and 5 test series where a batsman have chance to comeback after initial failures. 

 

Kane avg 35 in ind, 30 in eng, 21 in sa, 26 in sl. 

[rangeelaraja]

2 minutes ago, Nikola said:

 

Man of the match (test cricket)

 

So Chandrapaul is a greater player than Tendulkar...you clearly. don't understand cricket.

 

Man of the series

[Nikola]

4 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

So Chandrapaul is a greater player than Tendulkar...you clearly. don't understand cricket.

 

Man of the series

 

When did i say that? we are comparing two player's peak batting performance.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Nikola

[VT87]

22 minutes ago, Serpico said:

lol wut. He is not in top 10 in that image because it is sorted by runs. Kane don't get to play as many tests as others so his aggregate runs won't be high. Sort it by Average and he will be there. All this without the regular 4 test and 5 test series where a batsman have chance to comeback after initial failures. 

 

No actually it’s reversed if you start poorly in 4 or 5 test series there is no escape room from you to short out your technical deficiencies in the middle of the series (like 2014 Kohli) whereas if you did poorly in small series you can easily go home and work on your weakness and it won’t effect your confidence and batting average.as far as better batsman is concerned Kohli has better average in Eng,aus;sa,Sri,ind and other top teams.it’s not his fault that he did not get privilege to feast minnow level bowling attacks.anyway I am not Kohli fan ,smith is way better than Kohli but  Williamson not

Edited January 31, 2021 by VT87

[mancalledsting]

On a side note, Kohli has had to face ATG attacks in Aus (Hazelwood, Johnson, Lyon, Harris, Starc and Cummings), Eng (Anderson, Broad, Stokes) and RSA (Steyn, Morkel, Rabada, Philnader) and done very well. Not really sure how people doubting his batting achievements. 

[Serpico]

3 minutes ago, VT87 said:

No actually it’s reversed if you start poorly in 4 or 5 test series there is no escape room from you to short out your technical deficiencies in the middle of the series (like 2014 Kohli) whereas if you did poorly in small series you can easily go home and work on your weakness and it won’t effect you confidence and batting average.as far as better batsman is concerned Kohli has better average in Eng,aus;sa,Sri,ind and other top teams.it’s not his fault that he did not get privilege to feast minnow level bowling attacks.anyway I am not Kohli fan ,smith is way better than Kohli but  Williamson not

Smith scored 1,1,0,8 in the first 4 innings in recent B-G series. If that was regular 2 test series like NZ plays, it would have been a complete failure series for him. But another 2 matches ensured 4 more chances to come good and he scored 3 50+ scores in them.. this is what Kane is missing. Another problem is not enough home games in his purple patch.. in 2016-17 Kohli played like 15 home matches on the trot during his purple patch.. Kane meanwhile played 4 tests, scored 3 doubles and home season is over

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, Serpico said:

No. Smith's peak dwarves Ponting's peak. He is averaging 75 in the period you mentioned

I'm aware that Smith has scored 6000 runs at 75 in that period . If you take Ponting's from a particular date in March 2002(dont remember exactly) to the end of 2006, he has also scored 6000 runs @75 . Their peaks are identical. 

[Nikhil_cric]

@serpico and @Nikola . I was undr the same impression that Smith has peaked higher than any batsman I saw and it just shows how much we forget over time and under/overestimate the past.  

 

For Ponting, he was consistent from late 99 but he became a force of nature in March 2002 until end of 2006 as seen below. After that he could never score like that again

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/7133.html?class=1;spanmax1=13+Dec+2006;spanmin1=07+Mar+2002;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

For Smith, he was a high volume scorer in the in the period from early 2014 tothe recent Ashes but just like ponting he seems to have lost it. Whether permanent or not, only time will tell

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/267192.html?class=1;spanmax1=30+Sep+2019;spanmin1=01+Jan+2014;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

 

Eerily similar peak stats. I think Ponting's is a bit underrated since he played alongside Haydos, Martyn, Gilly, Langer etc  

 

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, adi B said:

Ponting can only dream of batting like Smith did in India 

Yeah that Indian team wouldn't drop half a dozen catches of him.