beetle Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 35 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: Even if Pakistan mil decide to turn a new leaf and want to reconcile with India - they are being coaxed by China to remain hostile, so that India remains engaged and occupied on both the fronts. Pak mil has been waging direct and indirect war since independence with out Chinese help. It is not like they have ever given a thought to not constantly create trouble in India.
Mariyam Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 @sandeep Yes, it is in BOM. And I'm not slagging off the Indian effort. Far from it. The wider reality is that the USA has introduced emergency legislation due to which they can't export certain APIs and other raw materials which are necessary in the manufacture of the vaccine means that even if our distribution channels are on point, we can only disburse so much till certain molecules are made in India. And we are a few months away from that. Or we could hope that Pfizer shifts a part of their vaccine production to India. In which case we'd have access to those specific molecules and our people would make generic copies in no time.
rangeelaraja Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, sandeep said: why would they want that? That would mean an end to their gravy train. They are not going to want that unless faced with existential crisis. The Chinese are going to give them just enough aid/help to avoid that scenario. Just like with North Korea. Don't let it collapse, but keep it dependent. they have had to mortgage their airports, highways, parks and what not ..for Chinese money. Chinese don’t give anything for free. Pak is losing grip of its assets for Chinese loans ... this is not short of an existential crisis. cannot compare to dkrp which is run by one dictator family and totally different equation even within the pak army - there are several power centers, and then there are Jihadi groups that are not entirely in the army’s control. Chinese are not in DKRP territory by the 10s of 1000s. Chinese have their own enclaves in Balochistan which is off limits to locals. Alam_dar 1
sandeep Posted March 10, 2021 Author Posted March 10, 2021 Just now, Mariyam said: The wider reality is that the USA has introduced emergency legislation due to which they can't export certain APIs and other raw materials which are necessary in the manufacture of the vaccine means that even if our distribution channels are on point, we can only disburse so much till certain molecules are made in India. And we are a few months away from that. You do understand that India is not in the position that the US is, in terms of market access, purchasing power, policy controls, and so on? I mean, its one thing to make a popular demand of "don't export APIs, its national interest etc", but its quite another to also take into account the impact of such decisions on the pharmaceutical sector - in the short-term as well as long-term. Other companies and countries won't stop investing or selling in the US if the US govt introduces temporary restrictions - because they have no choice - its the most lucrative market on the planet. Indian Govt may not have that luxury. Inter-dependence on a gamut of products is not a black-and-white thing. Because India's chances of the desperately needed economic growth depend almost entirely on other countries deciding to 'trust' businesses relocating their factories to India. As it is, India doesn't have the best offerings in terms of logistics, labor laws, legal environment. Now you want to take one of the few successful exporting sectors we have, and go all swadeshi on it? That's what Morarji Desai did in the 1970s, while the Communist murderers in China went in a different direction. Look what that has led to today. 4 minutes ago, Mariyam said: Or we could hope that Pfizer shifts a part of their vaccine production to India. In which case we'd have access to those specific molecules and our people would make generic copies in no time. Stay tuned for major "Quad" related initiative and announcement regarding this. India is going to spearhead a major ramp-up of Vaccine production and export, supported by funding from US, Japan and Aus.
Mariyam Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) Pakistani policy here is strange. They under test and claim to not be impacted by Covid. Why do they want to inoculate if they have already (their claim) developed herd immunity? Edited March 10, 2021 by Mariyam
sandeep Posted March 10, 2021 Author Posted March 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: they have had to mortgage their airports, highways, parks and what not ..for Chinese money. Chinese don’t give anything for free. Pak is losing grip of its assets for Chinese loans ... this is not short of an existential crisis. cannot compare to dkrp which is run by one dictator family and totally different equation even within the pak army - there are several power centers, and then there are Jihadi groups that are not entirely in the army’s control. Chinese are not in DKRP territory by the 10s of 1000s. Chinese have their own enclaves in Balochistan which is off limits to locals. You seem to have a big problem differentiating assertions and facts. I don't want this thread to degenerate into another tangential argument, so let's leave it at agree to disagree.
sandeep Posted March 10, 2021 Author Posted March 10, 2021 Just now, Mariyam said: Pakistan is a strange nation. They under test and claim to not be impacted by Covid. Why do they want to inoculate if they have already (their claim) developed herd immunity? Nothing strange about it. Its a feudal totalitarian oligarchy. Most of what is said and "claimed" is to keep the 'natives' from getting too restless. "Fifth generation information warphare" waged against awaam to keep them from revolting. The elites are only concerned with taking care of themselves, and doing the bare minimum to avoid backlash.
Mariyam Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 1 minute ago, sandeep said: Nothing strange about it. Its a feudal totalitarian oligarchy. Most of what is said and "claimed" is to keep the 'natives' from getting too restless. "Fifth generation information warphare" waged against awaam to keep them from revolting. The elites are only concerned with taking care of themselves, and doing the bare minimum to avoid backlash. I get that. But the article in the OP talks about 45 million doses. If its only for the elites and the bare minimum to avoid a backlash, you'd call for a tenth of that number. Maybe a fifth. This is huge. Not that I'm complaining. Good monetary handshake for our pharmaceutical sector.
sandeep Posted March 10, 2021 Author Posted March 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mariyam said: I get that. But the article in the OP talks about 45 million doses. If its only for the elites and the bare minimum to avoid a backlash, you'd call for a tenth of that number. Maybe a fifth. This is huge. Not that I'm complaining. Good monetary handshake for our pharmaceutical sector. Probably exaggerated. I'm skeptical that GAVI is going to route that sizeable an allocation to Pak.
rangeelaraja Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, sandeep said: You seem to have a big problem differentiating assertions and facts. I don't want this thread to degenerate into another tangential argument, so let's leave it at agree to disagree. Which part of my previous post was my assertion and not a fact ? I can hammer evidences from Pakistan's own media for almost all of what I said. Your biggest problem is your " i know it all" unreasonable approach to any debate or argument.
BacktoCricaddict Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 56 minutes ago, sandeep said: Lets not rush to judgement regarding the vaccine rollout in India - doing this for a billion people is not a joke and will require a lot of effort. And predictably there will be some issues as well. None that aren't present everywhere else on the planet. ^^ This. A million times.
BacktoCricaddict Posted March 10, 2021 Posted March 10, 2021 48 minutes ago, Mariyam said: Or we could hope that Pfizer shifts a part of their vaccine production to India. In which case we'd have access to those specific molecules and our people would make generic copies in no time. Getting a plant ready to make mRNA vaccines following all GLP/GMP regulations is very difficult. Once set up, the possibilities are endless, and adapting if for many other therapeutics is a cinch. sandeep and Mariyam 1 1
rangeelaraja Posted March 11, 2021 Posted March 11, 2021 7 hours ago, beetle said: Pak mil has been waging direct and indirect war since independence with out Chinese help. It is not like they have ever given a thought to not constantly create trouble in India. https://theprint.in/defence/chinese-troops-blacktopping-track-in-disputed-finger-area-in-ladakh-amid-border-tensions/432147/ Quote In 1999, during the Kargil War when Indian forces were diverted, the Chinese had stepped in and built a track up to Finger 5, but this was not completely blacktopped. For a few decades now, China and Pakistan have been working in cahoots. China has a significant role in Pakistan's missiles, nuclear war heads and fighter planes ( JF17) , and scores of other military hardware. China wants to use Pakistan to keep India tied down. Most of our former servicemen in the media have spoken about the interoperability that Pak and China have been working towards. When we diverted troops to Kargil, China built paved roads from Finger 8 to Finger 5 in Pangong Tso in the summer of 1999. Pakistan is now even more beholden to China because India has used its clout with the Middle East to ensure that Pak's Kashmir's itch gets no backing from keys OIC states like Saudi, UAE etc... Pakistan will do whatever China says....essentially a puppet/client state to the core, now more than ever.
beetle Posted March 11, 2021 Posted March 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said: https://theprint.in/defence/chinese-troops-blacktopping-track-in-disputed-finger-area-in-ladakh-amid-border-tensions/432147/ For a few decades now, China and Pakistan have been working in cahoots. China has a significant role in Pakistan's missiles, nuclear war heads and fighter planes ( JF17) , and scores of other military hardware. China wants to use Pakistan to keep India tied down. Most of our former servicemen in the media have spoken about the interoperability that Pak and China have been working towards. When we diverted troops to Kargil, China built paved roads from Finger 8 to Finger 5 in Pangong Tso in the summer of 1999. Pakistan is now even more beholden to China because India has used its clout with the Middle East to ensure that Pak's Kashmir's itch gets no backing from keys OIC states like Saudi, UAE etc... Pakistan will do whatever China says....essentially a puppet/client state to the core, now more than ever. They may be working in cahoots but it is not like China is making Pak do all this . Pak's main foreign policy is to hurt India.... with or without chinese help.
rangeelaraja Posted March 11, 2021 Posted March 11, 2021 12 minutes ago, beetle said: They may be working in cahoots but it is not like China is making Pak do all this . Pak's main foreign policy is to hurt India.... with or without chinese help. China making Pak do what ? You are missing my point. CPEC is obviously a Chinese brain child, Pakistan does not have the money or wherewithal. CPEC investment is a mere 6-7 % of what China’s intended spending on BRI, which is well over a trillion dollars. Where does CPEC pass through ? An area occupied by Pakistan but integral part of J&K. What does CPEC mean for India ? it means China has butted in a contentious territory that principally belongs to India. By getting into this in the manner that it has, it has created an environment where if there is a kinetic conflict between india and Pakistan, China will claim a “moral” right to intervene because of its “ stake” in the region. This is to deter India from using a full on kinetic option against Pak to seize territory. Pakistan did not ask for CPEC, China offered ( rather demanded) and Pakistan accepted. CPEC as an alternative land route to shipping lanes of malacca, a choke point that China fears - is a total joke. Traversing length of Pakistan from Gwader to Kashger and then the breadth of China to its Eastern prosperous belt by road to deliver trade back and forth is a retarded option economically, expensive and inefficient. China has used this “ big brother stepping in “ approach to offer Pakistan a guarantee that india will never be able to seize PoK by force because China has a “stake” in it. China is a bigger enemy than Pakistan will ever be more so because it is a much more strategic enemy. Most Indians only see Pak terrorism in Kashmir. China for decades has been formenting insurgencies in the North East. For years they have been misusing their P5 position against India and shielding Pak. Pak is not 1/2 the enemy without Chinas full backing.
rangeelaraja Posted March 11, 2021 Posted March 11, 2021 What else can one expect from ungrateful wretches: they are talking as if they are doing us a favor by using us our vaccines in the name of bilateralism. No amount of goodwill or mercy can change a snake. We all know what must be done to the snakes head...
ravishingravi Posted March 11, 2021 Posted March 11, 2021 Trust me guys. If you are in India now, you are lucky. In Europe, you would be lucky to see any sign of vaccination in next one year. EnterTheVoid 1
Clarke Posted March 11, 2021 Posted March 11, 2021 7 hours ago, ravishingravi said: Trust me guys. If you are in India now, you are lucky. In Europe, you would be lucky to see any sign of vaccination in next one year. America will come to the rescue of the old world & Canada once it completes it's drive this summer. ravishingravi 1
Vilander Posted March 12, 2021 Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/10/2021 at 10:34 AM, MultiB48 said: Remember pakistanis, it was your choice,if you lose your fertility don't blame us.
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