diga Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 12 minutes ago, ravishingravi said: What were you thinking Delhi China wants the "formula" ... - Bolly villian ishtyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Time to open up Mumbai now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poi Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 3 hours ago, urbestfriend said: In india there are no anti vaxxers like in west. But many are skeptical of the efficacy of this.. IN history of mankind, it has never happened that we are vaccinating billions of people , but vaccine is tested for less than an year. We dont understand the safety, efficacy and long term side effects of it. Yet we're asked to believe and get vaccinated. This is not same as vaccines which are time tested. The vaccines made in China/Russia/India aren’t mRNA and the technologies have been around a long time. Even the mRNA vaccine technology has been around for a decade and tested on animals. How long do you think a reasonable wait it? Start Covid-19 vaccinations in 2039? In the meantime these covid patients completely overwhelm the healthcare and tank the global economy? There are newly designed tech/software/materials all the time and use in roads, bridges, planes, healthcare, clothing, and food. And medicine. Clarke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted May 11, 2021 Author Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) @rkt.india@Vilander@poi@coffee_rules@vvvslaxman This is vaccination in theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination Quote Vaccination is the administration of a vaccine to help the immune system develop protection from a disease. Vaccines contain a microorganism or virus in a weakened, live or killed state, or proteins or toxins from the organism. I don't own a doctorate degree so I took the easy way out. Vaccines contain the virus. Anything that doesn't have it is not a vaccine. I may have labeled it a placebo but what I meant is that its not a vaccine Edited May 11, 2021 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted May 11, 2021 Author Share Posted May 11, 2021 On 5/10/2021 at 7:35 PM, poi said: So how did the placebo shot give them the virus? Also, you sound like an accomplished virologist from, say, 1810s. I was responding to a guy who claimed a certain vaccine didn't have the virus. So your claim of a "vaccine" that doesn't have the virus giving the virus is stupid in the first place. My point is about an actual vaccine that has the virus giving the recipient the virus. If it doesn't have the virus, its not a vaccine according to vaccination theory. Comprende amigo? My virology is as good as yours as you are not some scientist either. So just answer my question. I see you dodging my reply to earlier posts of yours. I called out your BS that "vaccines may not protect the recipient from getting the disease and spreading it to others". If it doesn't, there is no use for the vaccine. Let the body use its own immune system to fight the disease. Your theory is like Microsoft Windows which needs antivirus protection AND daily updates to keep the OS working. An Apple or Linux machine doesn't need such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 13 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: @rkt.india@Vilander@poi@coffee_rules@vvvslaxman This is vaccination in theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination I don't own a doctorate degree so I took the easy way out. Vaccines contain the virus. Anything that doesn't have it is not a vaccine. I may have labeled it a placebo but what I meant for you sCiEnCe nerds is that its not a vaccine Dude there are several types of vaccines.. Subunit, dna, now the new messenger rna, viral vector- inactivated viral, live attenuated etc.. You don't need a degree just secondary research would do. Don't stop yourself cognitively and I would say don't search for information that makes your feel correct but information that's helps you make right decision. https://teamvaccine.com/2013/03/12/immunoloy-101-series-types-of-vaccines/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 3 hours ago, ravishingravi said: What were you thinking Delhi Sounds like an anarchist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Real McCoy said: @rkt.india@Vilander@poi@coffee_rules@vvvslaxman This is vaccination in theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination I don't own a doctorate degree so I took the easy way out. Vaccines contain the virus. Anything that doesn't have it is not a vaccine. I may have labeled it a placebo but what I meant is that its not a vaccine Vaccine doesn't need to contain. Actual while virus as said in Wikipedia text you posted. It can contain Protein or toxin from the virus, not the virus itself. Covishield and Sputnik, Janssen don't contain corona virus. They contain adenovirus with corona spike protein implanted in it, so that it can generate immune response against spike protein of the actual corona virus. Doesn't contain the whole corona virus. Just a part of it Edited May 12, 2021 by rkt.india BacktoCricaddict and coffee_rules 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 58 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Vaccine doesn't need to contain as said in Wikipedia text you posted. It can contain Protein or toxin from the virus, not the virus itself. Covishield and Sputnik, Janssen don't contain corona virus. They contain adenovirus with corona spike protein implanted in it, so that it can generate immune response against spike protein of the actual corona virus. Doesn't contain the whole corona virus. Just a part of it Not only that - even the adenovirus sequence is changed so it can infect but not replicate in human cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 3 hours ago, poi said: The vaccines made in China/Russia/India aren’t mRNA and the technologies have been around a long time. Even the mRNA vaccine technology has been around for a decade and tested on animals. How long do you think a reasonable wait it? Start Covid-19 vaccinations in 2039? In the meantime these covid patients completely overwhelm the healthcare and tank the global economy? There are newly designed tech/software/materials all the time and use in roads, bridges, planes, healthcare, clothing, and food. And medicine. Are you seriously comparing Softwares with what inject to our body? A bad untested software can be replaced, but can you replace a vaccine once given? Also medicines are not comparable with the vaccines because they are different. Vaccines will work on the principle of Immunological memory which means it is recalled during the infection to fight. But corona virus itself is not comparable with other viruses of the past as it is fast mutating whereas other viruses are more stable. So it is important to know if vaccines will give sufficient protection against different variants, it means lot more testing. When we're vaccinating billions and when we dont have proper long term studies, it is scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poi Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 31 minutes ago, urbestfriend said: Are you seriously comparing Softwares with what inject to our body? A bad untested software can be replaced, but can you replace a vaccine once given? Also medicines are not comparable with the vaccines because they are different. Vaccines will work on the principle of Immunological memory which means it is recalled during the infection to fight. But corona virus itself is not comparable with other viruses of the past as it is fast mutating whereas other viruses are more stable. So it is important to know if vaccines will give sufficient protection against different variants, it means lot more testing. When we're vaccinating billions and when we dont have proper long term studies, it is scary. Yes, softwares run everything from your traffic lights to nuclear reactors and cars you drive to planes to fly to hearts you transplant. Get used to software designed vaccines. There is no evidence that these designed vaccines are worse. Given that they are so effective in preventing hospitalizations and deaths in 90% plus (and prevent infections depending on the strains), there is no need to “wait” for some 30 year meta study to conclude in 2050s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 hour ago, urbestfriend said: Are you seriously comparing Softwares with what inject to our body? A bad untested software can be replaced, but can you replace a vaccine once given? Also medicines are not comparable with the vaccines because they are different. Vaccines will work on the principle of Immunological memory which means it is recalled during the infection to fight. But corona virus itself is not comparable with other viruses of the past as it is fast mutating whereas other viruses are more stable. So it is important to know if vaccines will give sufficient protection against different variants, it means lot more testing. When we're vaccinating billions and when we dont have proper long term studies, it is scary. SARS-CoV2 has a lower mutation rate than the influenza virus. But the influenza virus has stabilized and its replication rate in our population is generally low, thanks to vaccines. At this stage, SARS-CoV2's replication rate must be slowed down to slow down VOC appearance. Current vaccines slow down replication and transmission. Everything else will follow. This battle will continue for some time, but we can bring it in control faster than we've done with other infectious diseases, especially RNA viral infections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 6 hours ago, Real McCoy said: @rkt.india@Vilander@poi@coffee_rules@vvvslaxman This is vaccination in theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination I don't own a doctorate degree so I took the easy way out. Vaccines contain the virus. Anything that doesn't have it is not a vaccine. I may have labeled it a placebo but what I meant is that its not a vaccine MrNA vaccines don't fall under this category. THat much i am sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 12 hours ago, urbestfriend said: In india there are no anti vaxxers like in west. But many are skeptical of the efficacy of this.. IN history of mankind, it has never happened that we are vaccinating billions of people , but vaccine is tested for less than an year. We dont understand the safety, efficacy and long term side effects of it. Yet we're asked to believe and get vaccinated. This is not same as vaccines which are time tested. I know how much time it takes to fully develop a vaccine. About 10 to 15 years. But this is an extraordinary circumstance. People die within the days of contracting it. So scientists across the countries collaborated and came out with vaccine in record time. Transmission rate of this virus is unheard of. Remoted part of the world saw so many infections. To return to normal life only option is promote her immunity through vaccine in the shortest time possible. Kudos to all the scientists who worked day and night. Without vaccine it will be a near apocalyptic scenario. Actually vaccine development takes only few months to an year. But there are three phases after that. Third phase takes the longest. Waiting for them to expose themselves to virus naturally. They have to be patient. Only then government will approve. The doctors who approve are not really total idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 I don't see a strong argument against vaccines here. Just skepticism. Long term impact of covid is deadly. Your body may not be able to handle a second attack even if you survive the first. Do not thrust these half baked arguments and discourage people from getting vaccine. That is a great disservice to humanity you are doing. Vaccine developers are not quacks. Yes they cannot 100% predict how it will affect a human after 20 years. But based purely on unsubstantiated theories, do not skip it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jf1gp_1 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 10 hours ago, ravishingravi said: What were you thinking Delhi Should have given this speech when Brazil PM was thanking India for sending vaccine, beauty of hindsight and available platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 7 hours ago, urbestfriend said: Are you seriously comparing Softwares with what inject to our body? A bad untested software can be replaced, but can you replace a vaccine once given? Also medicines are not comparable with the vaccines because they are different. Vaccines will work on the principle of Immunological memory which means it is recalled during the infection to fight. But corona virus itself is not comparable with other viruses of the past as it is fast mutating whereas other viruses are more stable. So it is important to know if vaccines will give sufficient protection against different variants, it means lot more testing. When we're vaccinating billions and when we dont have proper long term studies, it is scary. Virus mutates but it doesn't change completely and become a new virus. Only some part of it changes. Whole code doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 5 hours ago, ravishingravi said: Only on twitter lol It is not that hard to sell this story to WHO. It is all about "damage control" now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 10 hours ago, rkt.india said: Virus mutates but it doesn't change completely and become a new virus. Only some part of it changes. Whole code doesn't. It is much more complex than that... What vaccination provides in an ideal condition. Optimistic scenario is that over a period, we are hoping that herd immunity is achieved so that virus transmission will stop, and hence the pandemic will stop. But consider pessimistic scenario. But virus is mutating to newer variants and the effectiveness of vaccine against these new variants are not same as the original virus, thus reducing the efficacy of the vaccine's response against the new variants. For eg: It is confirmed that against new Indian variant , vaccines do work but not as effective as the original variant. Lets assume covishield has 79% efficacy against original variant, but it may be 20% less effective i.e around 65% effective against this new variant. Obviously rest 35% might get not severe covid, but remember they are spreading the virus to others ( vaccinated and non-vaccinated group) during their infection phase. This might trigger newer variants as vaccine is not helping virus movements as it is initially thought, that are less effective against vaccine. Coupled with vaccine's effectiveness wanes over time, there is a possibility of 3rd wave due to newer variants. What this means? We may have to go for booster doses against these new variants. So those who had the innate immunity would also have to rely on the vaccines for their immunity. Now is it feasible that we'll keep giving booster doses every year for a billion people, otherwise a possibility of an outbreak due to escape variants? I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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