Harsha Bhogle releases his All-Time India Test XI

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, New guy said:

What if bumrah ends his career with 35+? Zaheers second half was very good. 

 

 

Can't take current decisions based on " what if ".   Bumrah averages 23.2 after 20 tests and 39 bowling innings, a large enough sample size. 

 

What if Kohli starts failing miserably from now on and ends up averaging 46 ?  

 

Current decisions should be based on current information. 

[Majestic]

Zaheer Khan is a better bowler than anyone India has produced in England conditions. A place where we go every two year to get smashed 3-0 or 4-0 or 4-1 in last 10-13 years.

 

Bumrah's sample is too low to make a case for him. Shami is close but he lacks the ability to run through sides. Even on his best day like in WTC Final, he ended up wih spell of 4-75.  Great bowlers will make sure they take 5-fer or 6-fer on their best days and grab the game by scruff of its neck. Shami isn't capable to do that. Jamieson did it on that day and NZ won while Shami didn't.

 

Ishant is brilliant but he has found a lot of success on bowling friendly conditions in the last 4-5 years. Srinath was very good for home conditions but he was worse than Zaheer in overseas conditions and at home, we have enough match winners but what we lack is match winners for overseas conditions.

 

All said and done, Zaheer certainly deserves to be in the XI at this point. Once Bumrah gets close to 200 test wickets, then we can start putting him ahead of Zak in the list.

Edited July 20, 2021 by Majestic

[speedheat]

Zaheer is bit overrated in test cricket, I would add Shami or bumrah in place of Zaheer.

Apart from that team is fine.

[ShoonyaSifar]

27 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

No he was not. Was a pathetic trundler for 80 percent of his career. Uncharitable Ahole that I am, I'd attribute the rest of 20 percent decent performance to pure luck. He was also a coward who'd run to square leg when facing quicks.

Then we must have watched different bowlers bowl. The guy was in the world top 10 bowler ratings from 2007 to 2010, must have done something right to be there

 

[New guy]

37 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Can't take current decisions based on " what if ".   Bumrah averages 23.2 after 20 tests and 39 bowling innings, a large enough sample size. 

 

What if Kohli starts failing miserably from now on and ends up averaging 46 ?  

 

Current decisions should be based on current information. 

Can't make ATG lists based on just 20 matches either 

Edited July 20, 2021 by New guy

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 minute ago, sarchasm said:

Yeah, we should absolutely disregard his bowling which was angling the ball across at 80 mph that would make batsmen giggle before they deposited him beyond the boundary. Or how Hayden physically terrorized him. Or his abominable stats against most teams across his career.

 

Just focus on some quirky algorithm that landed him him in top 10 for a couple of years in a career that lasted 12 years. Top argument.

I absolutely agree with you. Zaheer was utter crap. Thank you for the enlightenment 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Just now, sarchasm said:

Utter crap with the ''left arm factor''

Okay. So here you go.

 

Zaheer was utter crap with the left arm factor, was a 80 mph trundler, was a coward and got terrorised by Hayden, whatever he achieved was due to sheer luck.

 

Any more pearls of wisdom I missed?

[ShoonyaSifar]

8 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

That's nice. Now repeat after me.

 

''Utter crap with the ''left arm factor'' is still crap.''

Is that all you had? Disappointing but hopefully you feel better now, Have a good day 

[express bowling]

36 minutes ago, New guy said:

Can't make ATG lists based on just 20 matches either 

 

 

Usually yes.

 

But our pace bowling was so average till 2014 or thereabouts that an exception should be made in this case.

[Austin 3:!6]

14 minutes ago, Baji-Rao said:

try taking out windies from his stats champion

Try taking out bottle caps from Waqar's trousers

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Zaheer Khan is a better bowler than anyone India has produced in England conditions. A place where we go every two year to get smashed 3-0 or 4-0 or 4-1 in last 10-13 years.

 

Bumrah's sample is too low to make a case for him. Shami is close but he lacks the ability to run through sides. Even on his best day like in WTC Final, he ended up wih spell of 4-75.  Great bowlers will make sure they take 5-fer or 6-fer on their best days and grab the game by scruff of its neck. Shami isn't capable to do that. Jamieson did it on that day and NZ won while Shami didn't.

 

Ishant is brilliant but he has found a lot of success on bowling friendly conditions in the last 4-5 years. Srinath was very good for home conditions but he was worse than Zaheer in overseas conditions and at home, we have enough match winners but what we lack is match winners for overseas conditions.

 

All said and done, Zaheer certainly deserves to be in the XI at this point. Once Bumrah gets close to 200 test wickets, then we can start putting him ahead of Zak in the list.

Shami did it I stage consistently and in s.africa when they actually had a gun team. 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Baji-Rao said:

try taking out windies from his stats champion

 

 

 

1)    Bumrah averages 25.8 against SENA teams in test matches. This is absolute top class.

 

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/625383.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

 

2)    Do you evaluate every player like this. ?

Or does it just apply to Endian players. ?

[QuarantineTormentino]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

1)    Bumrah averages 25.8 against SENA teams in test matches. This is absolute top class.

 

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/625383.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

 

2)    Do you evaluate every player like this. ?

Or does it just apply to Endian players. ?

Don’t engage him bro he’s a grade A troll... he’s trying to be the Mamoon of ICF but not only is he not Indian but he’s getting trashed in debates with literally every poster here

[maniac]

1 hour ago, Baji-Rao said:

Please sir show me the footage 

bro, it is obvious who you are. There are quiet a few Pakistani posters here. Serious question why are you ashamed of your identity? 
 

This gimmick is as old as the internet you realize that right?

 

 

[QuarantineTormentino]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

bro, it is obvious who you are. There are quiet a few Pakistani posters here. Serious question why are you ashamed of your identity? 
 

This gimmick is as old as the internet you realize that right?

 

 

He’s trying to be mamoon but failing miserably

[QuarantineTormentino]

1 minute ago, sarchasm said:

WTF is this baboon mamoon?

He’s a Pakistani poster on PP who always gets his countrymen off their high horses everytime they get too cocky... he’s the only voice of sanity in that forum

[Jay]

2 hours ago, Baji-Rao said:

25.8 aka 26 Average bowler in Test.

This is decent but how is this world class? Look at other World class bowlers average to this? Even in modern times try comparing that to of Pat Cummins and Kagiso Rabda who are the cream of the crop of todays bowling standards. For the record, even our neighbor's 3rd class bowling attack in present times are roaming with Hasan Ali and Abbas who both average 25.5 and 26 themselves respectively in tests vs SENA 

kagiso averages 45 in india.

cummins averages 32.

 

bumrah averages 22 in australia. 23 in s.africa.

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Baji-Rao said:

Like i said bumrahs sena is decent and good. Overall cummins has a 21 avg in these combined conditions. Rabada on overall 25 but insane SR. If bumrah was better then these two and world no 1 then iw ould have considered an exception of having him in an all time xi, but for now he cant until he gets games while imporving those overall numbers, which is what seems fairly the opposite on current performances of Bumrah across test and odis especially odis.

bumrah is finished in odi imo. he is a containment bowler in odi. he is a test and t20 bowler. 

 

cummins averages in sena is boosted by his stats in australia, new zealand and s.africa where similar balls are used. 

 

same applies to rabada. for sena bowlers, its their asian results that matter more. 

 

both are poor in asia. cummins less so. bumrah is far better in sena than cummins in asia. 

[zen]

That AT side will be playing against other ATG sides on paper, I do not see it doing too well apart from a few good individual performances. The batting, apart from Gavaskar,  is likely to struggle against ATG bowlers. Ind bowlers will have a tough time v ATG batsmen 

[Jay]

20 minutes ago, zen said:

That AT side will be playing against other ATG sides on paper, I do not see it doing too well apart from a few good individual performances. The batting, apart from Gavaskar,  is likely to struggle against ATG bowlers. Ind bowlers will have a tough time v ATG batsmen 

Collectively and Indian ATG bowling attack would be top notch and trouble all ATGs. 

 

Srianth, bumrah, shami, kapil and ashwin or kumble is a strong ATG attack. As a whole they are top class.