The BCCI needs to create two pools of 150 kph pacers and 145 kph pacers and groom them with special care

[Jay]

Imo if you can't bowl around 136 plus consistently, you should forget about bowling. I expect every Indian bowler in all set-ups across formats to bowl between 135-145 consistently. 

 

Select few can specialise for 140-150 express bowling. 

[DeepSpace]

ATUL PHUCKING SHARMA!!!!

 

 

 

[cricketfan28]

More important to have pool or players like asif ali , liam livingstone etc.. very important from an ODI and T20 perspective.

[AKane]

On the contrary the BCCI will marginalize and try as far as possible not to pick anyone who bowls near 150 kmph.

 

Once the person drops his speed to 135-140.... he will be in the Indian establishments good books and they will reward him as "beta has learned his lesson". People learn the hard way "not" to bowl fast.

[AKane]

BTW one of the reasons we even see and hear of people like Umran Malik ( there were people like him before as well ) and before him Navdeep Saini is because IPL although a BCCI tourney has teams owned by individuals outside BCCI. These individuals are not shy about hiring a Malik or Saini regardless of the views of the Indian establishment.

 

If it was only Indian establishment - we would still be in the Mohanty, Praveen Kumar, era. So thanks to the IPL team owners for bucking the establishment's unwritten rules on the supremacy of medium pace.

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, AKane said:

On the contrary the BCCI will marginalize and try as far as possible not to pick anyone who bowls near 150 kmph.

 

Once the person drops his speed to 135-140.... he will be in the Indian establishments good books and they will reward him as "beta has learned his lesson". People learn the hard way "not" to bowl fast.

 

Why do you think it has happened ?

[rollingstoned]

7 hours ago, Jay said:

Imo if you can't bowl around 136 plus consistently, you should forget about bowling. I expect every Indian bowler in all set-ups across formats to bowl between 135-145 consistently. 

 

Select few can specialise for 140-150 express bowling. 

this depends on the movement on offer, Steyn used to crank up his speed when there wasn't much movement. You are not going to have 145 kph bowlers who bowl banana swing. but yes it appears that for test cricket at least the tm understand the value of variety. In lois since dhoni's time we have used spinners to choke the opposition while with the new rule change in odis spinners are effectively neutralised to a large extent. this has made striking in the middle overs with fast bowlers and leggies more important. our new ball bowling in odis took a steep dive with bumrahs form after the 2019 wc, there was even a stat about it.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, rollingstoned said:

this depends on the movement on offer, Steyn used to crank up his speed when there wasn't much movement. You are not going to have 145 kph bowlers who bowl banana swing. but yes it appears that for test cricket at least the tm understand the value of variety. In lois since dhoni's time we have used spinners to choke the opposition while with the new rule change in odis spinners are effectively neutralised to a large extent. this has made striking in the middle overs with fast bowlers and leggies more important. our new ball bowling in odis took a steep dive with bumrahs form after the 2019 wc, there was even a stat about it.

Agreed. We have talent though. Prasidh tyagi all should be part of the set-up already. Groom umran etc.

[express bowling]

17 minutes ago, Jay said:

Agreed. We have talent though. Prasidh tyagi all should be part of the set-up already. Groom umran etc.

 

The pacers that the selectors choose for white ball cricket against NZ will give us an idea about what they are thinking.

 

Whether It is a continuation of trundler policy for the shorter formats or need for speed is recognised.

[SRT100]

23 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

The pacers that the selectors choose for white ball cricket against NZ will give us an idea about what they are thinking.

 

Whether It is a continuation of trundler policy for the shorter formats or need for speed is recognised.

 

If they pick trundlers it makes posters like us think we too could play for Team India.

 

I think the BCCI will change radically this T20 team, we have failed multiple times now in ICC events. Something needs to change.

[speed_thrills]

56 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

If they pick trundlers it makes posters like us think we too could play for Team India.

 

I think the BCCI will change radically this T20 team, we have failed multiple times now in ICC events. Something needs to change.

But but but trundlers r good because they are effective in NZ. Someone just told me in an another thread.

[raki05]

Legend Bhuvneshwar,Sakariya, Deepak Chahar and Unadkat will be our attack in Hisaab barabar series. Backup would be Sandeep Sharma and Sidharth Kaul.

[AKane]

8 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Why do you think it has happened ?

There is this mindset that express pace bowlers are rough players that need a lot of grooming. On the contrary batsmen, spinners and medium pace bowlers can be fast tracked into the team. 

 

Why?

 

Some of it is just culture - we are not an alpha nation. Some of it is analysis paralysis ....and some outright hostility to the idea that the team depends on fast bowling. Look at Indian pitches - doctored for spinners. Can you imagine a Gabba or Perth or Kingston in India?  Aus has had good spinners like Lyon and Warne and Mallett and Benaud but they don't coddle them with doctored pitches.

 

There is no one in Indian  establishment who promotes raw pace - Not Kapil and Gavaskar and certainly no one from the Bedi generation. Everyone wants a refined Dennis Lillee(after injury). But Lillee before injury was a raw fast bowler and check the youtube videos of how he owned Sunny and others in the the World XI tour. Google Lillee 8-29 World XI.

 

 

[R!TTER]

1 hour ago, raki05 said:

Deepak Chahar

Chahar isn't bad on current form, picking Bhukhe was the worst decision though, thanks Brat *ing Kohli 

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, AKane said:

There is this mindset that express pace bowlers are rough players that need a lot of grooming. On the contrary batsmen, spinners and medium pace bowlers can be fast tracked into the team. 

 

Why?

 

Some of it is just culture - we are not an alpha nation. Some of it is analysis paralysis ....and some outright hostility to the idea that the team depends on fast bowling. Look at Indian pitches - doctored for spinners. Can you imagine a Gabba or Perth or Kingston in India?  Aus has had good spinners like Lyon and Warne and Mallett and Benaud but they don't coddle them with doctored pitches.

 

There is no one in Indian  establishment who promotes raw pace - Not Kapil and Gavaskar and certainly no one from the Bedi generation. Everyone wants a refined Dennis Lillee(after injury). But Lillee before injury was a raw fast bowler and check the youtube videos of how he owned Sunny and others in the the World XI tour. Google Lillee 8-29 World XI.

 

 

The environment is predominantly same but things have slowly started to change,with advent of Aaron,Umesh and now Bumrah

Umran Malik can be a massive massive influencer if he stays fit,the system will be forced to change for good

We have kids attracted towards fast bowling,yes,the admins have to take responsibility to scout these guys and dont let them burn out in domestics and wilderness

IPL franchises also have to understand importance of pace too many cutter,unadcutters, sakarias dissolve the excitement associated with IPL

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, AKane said:

There is this mindset that express pace bowlers are rough players that need a lot of grooming. On the contrary batsmen, spinners and medium pace bowlers can be fast tracked into the team. 

 

Why?

 

Some of it is just culture - we are not an alpha nation. Some of it is analysis paralysis ....and some outright hostility to the idea that the team depends on fast bowling. Look at Indian pitches - doctored for spinners. Can you imagine a Gabba or Perth or Kingston in India?  Aus has had good spinners like Lyon and Warne and Mallett and Benaud but they don't coddle them with doctored pitches.

 

There is no one in Indian  establishment who promotes raw pace - Not Kapil and Gavaskar and certainly no one from the Bedi generation. Everyone wants a refined Dennis Lillee(after injury). But Lillee before injury was a raw fast bowler and check the youtube videos of how he owned Sunny and others in the the World XI tour. Google Lillee 8-29 World XI.

 

 

I have noticed a few reasons myself

 

1)  There are too many people who want to be fair to domestic performers rather than find the best bowlers for their country in international cricket. In short, there is lack of clarity of thought and ruthlessness about what is needed to dominate in international cricket.

 

2)  People have no time for work-in-progress players. And fast bowlers stay as work-in-progress for longer periods as they are injury prone and miss out on matches during development. In short, they are too impatient and lack foresight. 

 

3)  So many people just cannot believe in their minds that Indian pacers are quick. They see an Indian pacer's average speeds and foreign pacer's top speeds and label them as Fast or Fast-medium. In short, they like old stereotypes to stay and this gives them mental comfort. 

 

4)  Some people wrongly perceive the will to bowl fast as a trait of unintelligent people. They can't believe that brawns and brains can co-exist. ( although many of the top fast bowlers are extremely intelligent ). Again adhering to old stereotypes.

 

5)  Some people like us to be underdogs. They always want a David vs Goliath scenario. They don't want us to dominate but win that odd game as underdogs. Big phoren phaast bowler bowling cannon balls at short Indian batsmen. That batsman may fail 2 or 3 times and then score a century. And then may fail again 3 times. But that century against a bully gives them much more satisfaction than us being the favourites. In short, undergo mentality is rampant.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by express bowling

[raki05]

36 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Chahar isn't bad on current form, picking Bhukhe was the worst decision though, thanks Brat *ing Kohli 

I am explicitly highlighting infestation of trundlers on Indian Cricket.

[rkt.india]

We have currently just one.

[express bowling]

38 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

The environment is predominantly same but things have slowly started to change,with advent of Aaron,Umesh and now Bumrah

Umran Malik can be a massive massive influencer if he stays fit,the system will be forced to change for good

We have kids attracted towards fast bowling,yes,the admins have to take responsibility to scout these guys and dont let them burn out in domestics and wilderness

IPL franchises also have to understand importance of pace too many cutter,unadcutters, sakarias dissolve the excitement associated with IPL

 

Bro, the system has definitely changed for the better ... but one thing noticeable is that we are happy to groom.every pacer into the 135 k to 143 k category.

 

Basically, find pacers who can bowl 145 k+ and then make them bowl within themselves, for supposed control. 

 

Although pacers like like Bumrah, Shami snd Siraj are as accurate at 145 k as they are at 137 k.

 

 

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

We have currently just one.

 

 

Umran And Saini would both qualify.

 

They have to be encouraged to bowl at 150 kph.  Not be happy bowling 137 k to 143 k.

 

And the BCCI scouts have to scour the country for express bowlers like you do and then develop them with special interest.

 

Nikhil Kohli has potential.