High time that Ind's changes its top order (#1-3) approach in LOIs

[zen]

Ind's tuk tuk brigade, which plays to be at around 100-110 at 15 overs mark in T20s and at around 150-160 at 30 overs in ODIs, comfortably padding stats without taking risks, = competitive advantage for strong opponents 

 

If you entire game depends upon making the most only a handful of overs, you are usually going to struggle in important games and versus stronger opponents

 

LOIs are all about impact players given the opportunity to stamp their authority on a game. The impact player walks in wanting to take the other team on. If in that process he gets out, another one comes in to continue the attempt to take the other team on. If he gets out too, you have one more ... Unless the conditions are bowling friendly, a team should only play tuk tuk brand of cricket IF it loses 3-4 early wkts. 

 

Even in bowling, we need to see pace bowlers and mystery/leg spinners in action more often. 

 

 

It is ok to even lose playing an attractive brand of cricket. Fans will support the team, knowing that when the players are in flow, they will win big tournaments relatively more often 

 

 

Need a change  

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by zen

[zen]

With a few months to go for the WC, it may not be a bad idea to try someone like Pant as opener  … No matter where he bats, he goes for his shots so a harder ball, field restrictions, and flat pitches may help … If he gets out, you still have wickets in hand; If he fires, he could put India in a strong position (rather than game starting after 30 overs), which others can leverage upon 

Edited January 23, 2022 by zen

[Vijy]

1. pant (wk), 2. shaw, 3. gaekwad, 4. consolidator [rohit since he will be captain]

 

all of top 3 have domestic/int'l 50-over SR of > 100.

[zen]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

1. pant (wk), 2. shaw, 3. gaekwad, 4. consolidator [rohit since he will be captain]

 

all of top 3 have domestic/int'l 50-over SR of > 100.

All are good positive options … If they do not get to play in top order in bilaterals, it is Ind’s loss (May have to wait longer to win a world cup) 

[zen]

A U30 squad of players expected to playing at their peak shortly:  

 

Pant (24)

Shaw (22)

Kishan (23) 

Gill (22)

KL (29)

SDP (28) -> 5th-6th bowler 

Sundar (22) -> 5th-6th bowler

D Chahar (29) -> Can bat 

Bishnoi (21)

Bumrah (28)

Siraj (27)

Gaikwad (24)

V Iyer (27)

Jaiswal (20)

Samson (27)
SRK (26)

Samad (20)

Axar (28)

R Chahar (22)

Arshdeep (22)

Umran (22)

Krishna (25)

 

PS we can make 2 11s so can phase out old players 

Edited January 23, 2022 by zen

[SRT100]

I think the reason tuk tuk is encouraged is that it allows senior players to always have a place in the team.

 

A time will come in 5-10 years from now, where Shaw, Pant and Ishan will be tuk tuk players too and we will want them out of the team.

[BlueBlood]

21 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

I think the reason tuk tuk is encouraged is that it allows senior players to always have a place in the team.

 

A time will come in 5-10 years from now, where Shaw, Pant and Ishan will be tuk tuk players too and we will want them out of the team.

This is why we need players like Pandya in the team.

 

They need to be given full freedom to put pressure on bowlers from ball 1.

 

I think someone like Kohli or Rahul needs to be give. Same

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, SRT100 said:

I think the reason tuk tuk is encouraged is that it allows senior players to always have a place in the team.

 

A time will come in 5-10 years from now, where Shaw, Pant and Ishan will be tuk tuk players too and we will want them out of the team.

Exactly lol pant has his own tuk tuk moments in his career. It. Could be like Afrdi like career. Shaw has the attitude. But technical issues will lead to string of low scores. Then he will also tuk tuk

[SRT100]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Exactly lol pant has his own tuk tuk moments in his career. It. Could be like Afrdi like career. Shaw has the attitude. But technical issues will lead to string of low scores. Then he will also tuk tuk

 

Indian fans have been spoilt over the years for great openers in terms of scoring quickly.

For over a generation we had SRT and then Sehwag. We have also had Hitman too.

 

At their peak powers, they score at well over a SR over 100+. I have seen absolute murder committed by all three of them. Its brutal and destructive.

 

KL, Dhawan and Kohli are all tuk tuk and anchor the innings specialists. It makes for boring cricket. The only time these guys accelerate is against trundlers and part time bowlers to give the impression they score close to a run a ball innings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Vijy@express bowling

Edited January 24, 2022 by SRT100

[SRT100]

5 hours ago, Vijy said:

1. pant (wk), 2. shaw, 3. gaekwad, 4. consolidator [rohit since he will be captain]

 

all of top 3 have domestic/int'l 50-over SR of > 100.

 

The only time you go tuk tuk and anchor the innings is when you lose 4 wickets plus inside the first 30 overs.

 

Otherwise we need to accelerate early.

 

Ive wanted Pant at the top for a long time now, same with Shaw. I know little of Gaekwad but happy to trust your judgement.

 

Hitman can anchor the innings which is fine. The problem with current Indian cricket is that we have about 3-4 guys that want to anchor the innings.

[Majestic]

Knowing that top order won't change and even from this series, both Dhawan and Kohli have come up with better impressions than Pant and Iyer in the media, my team which is what the Indian team could also opt with :-

 

Rohit

Shikhar

Kohli

Pant

KL/SKY

Jadeja

D Chahar

S Thakur

Ashwin

Shami

Bumrah

 

[vvvslaxman]

57 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

Indian fans have been spoilt over the years for great openers in terms of scoring quickly.

For over a generation we had SRT and then Sehwag. We have also had Hitman too.

 

At their peak powers, they score at well over a SR over 100+. I have seen absolute murder committed by all three of them. Its brutal and destructive.

 

KL, Dhawan and Kohli are all tuk tuk and anchor the innings specialists. It makes for boring cricket. The only time these guys accelerate is against trundlers and part time bowlers to give the impression they score close to a run a ball innings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Vijy@express bowling

 

With just 4 fielders outside till 40th over you can pick and choose and attack. Generally better bowlers bowl the first 10 overs. Boult/ Cummins/ Starc/ Rabada.  So it doesn't always make sense to slog up the orde.  If you remember our world cup encounter with England in 2019, England was cautious against Bumrah and Shami in the first 10 and scored only 47 runs.  In the next 40 overs they added 290 runs. Bumrah was like 4 overs 8 runs in the first 10 overs.  They scored 16 from 2 overs of chahal. Otherwise very conservative against our main bowlers.

 

Having said that it is criminal to let bowlers like Markram, Maxwell get away in the first 10 overs.

Edited January 24, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[Vijy]

56 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

Indian fans have been spoilt over the years for great openers in terms of scoring quickly.

For over a generation we had SRT and then Sehwag. We have also had Hitman too.

 

At their peak powers, they score at well over a SR over 100+. I have seen absolute murder committed by all three of them. Its brutal and destructive.

 

KL, Dhawan and Kohli are all tuk tuk and anchor the innings specialists. It makes for boring cricket. The only time these guys accelerate is against trundlers and part time bowlers to give the impression they score close to a run a ball innings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Vijy@express bowling

dhawan when in form does score quite fast. before this series, his SR was nearly 95, which is very good for someone with a near 10 yr career. the problem is, however, that he has slowed down. Rohit is a slow starter and Brat is become a genuine tuk-tuker as well. all of this trio were great players (albeit with some choking issues), but their time is past.

[vvvslaxman]

12 hours ago, Vijy said:

dhawan when in form does score quite fast. before this series, his SR was nearly 95, which is very good for someone with a near 10 yr career. the problem is, however, that he has slowed down. Rohit is a slow starter and Brat is become a genuine tuk-tuker as well. all of this trio were great players (albeit with some choking issues), but their time is past.

 

Since 2019 world cup run rate of each teams. Only England is better than us. That too not buy much. Jason Roy provides a fast start. They have a fantastic batting depth. We make 52. They make 58. That's it. This is an overblown issue. India's problem is middle overs and end overs more than that.

 

 

[mancalledsting]

Agreed, the Roy, Bairstow and Macallum approach is long overdue. Rohit taking a conservative approach in CT2013 and improving his output has led to this reversion in India ODI batting style back to the good old 'tuk-tuk' days. 

[maniac]

20 hours ago, zen said:

A U30 squad of players expected to playing at their peak shortly:  

 

Pant (24)

Shaw (22)

Kishan (23) 

Gill (22)

KL (29)

SDP (28) -> 5th-6th bowler 

Sundar (22) -> 5th-6th bowler

D Chahar (29) -> Can bat 

Bishnoi (21)

Bumrah (28)

Siraj (27)

Gaikwad (24)

V Iyer (27)

Jaiswal (20)

Samson (27)
SRK (26)

Samad (20)

Axar (28)

R Chahar (22)

Arshdeep (22)

Umran (22)

Krishna (25)

 

PS we can make 2 11s so can phase out old players 

Upvote given for not including Krunal Pandya in the 2 X1’s 

[maniac]

1 hour ago, mancalledsting said:

Agreed, the Roy, Bairstow and Macallum approach is long overdue. Rohit taking a conservative approach in CT2013 and improving his output has led to this reversion in India ODI batting style back to the good old 'tuk-tuk' days. 

its chicken and egg situation. I have seen great starts by Rohit and even Kohli-Dhawan turn into just about par once they get out.

 

SKY,Iyer, Pandya,Jadeja,Dhoni,Jadhav and even Pant have messed up easy chases or great starts many times.  Giving SKy the benefit of doubt because he plays attacking cricket regardless of the situation but need to see more thinking cricket.
 

Yes I agree our top order is conservative but that’s only part of the problem.

 

 

[Lord]

37 minutes ago, maniac said:

its chicken and egg situation. I have seen great starts by Rohit and even Kohli-Dhawan turn into just about par once they get out.

 

SKY,Iyer, Pandya,Jadeja,Dhoni,Jadhav and even Pant have messed up easy chases or great starts many times.  Giving SKy the benefit of doubt because he plays attacking cricket regardless of the situation but need to see more thinking cricket.
 

Yes I agree our top order is conservative but that’s only part of the problem.

 

 

When have they given quick starts?Ofcourse middle order will be inconsistent if its always trying to make up for RR from the start.They'll fail too if they had to bat in MO.

 

On top of that,these guys fail to do even that in most ICC knockouts/must win games. Middle order has fared much better and almost won us the game in 2019

[maniac]

Just now, Lord said:

When have they given quick starts?Ofcourse middle order will be inconsistent if its always trying to make up for RR from the start.They'll fail too if they had to bat in MO.

 

On top of that,these guys fail to do even that in most ICC knockouts/must win games. Middle order has fared much better and almost won us the game in 2019

maybe not quick starts in pp but I have seen 280-2 after 35-40 overs turn to average scores like 330 or failing to chase 50-75 runs with 5-6 wickets in hands many times after they got out. I don’t want to go on a stats hunt but I am sure you have seen that.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

maybe not quick starts in pp but I have seen 280-2 after 35-40 overs turn to average scores like 330 or failing to chase 50-75 runs with 5-6 wickets in hands many times after they got out. I don’t want to go on a stats hunt but I am sure you have seen that.

280 in 40 overs? thats not even regular itself let alone failure after that.

 

I have top 3 fail too as I said above,That happens. Thats why it is important that whoever fires makes a winning impact without leaving to others to do much.