Deepak chahar should be an automatic choice in playing XI in one dayers

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

in ODIs: thakur is a slightly better bat, and deepak is a somewhat better bowler

 

only one of both should play unless we want to become ultra-defensive and stack batting at expense of bowling (which is a strategy that some teams have tried).

 

Deepak Chahar batting is actually good as well. He has some audacious shots in his armory against pace. If India wants to play like England they have to ensure they have depth. Ideally you should have plenty of bowlers, plenty of batsmen.  Siraj is yet to prove in one dayers against all sides. If you look at overall package  Deepak chahar is always going to be better than Siraj. Chahar is a better fielder too. Apart from old Shami I cannot say any bowler is stand out in the one dayers to beat out fast bowling all rounders. Even Bumrah is not stand out. Sure he is useful when we have to defend 20 runs in the last 2 overs. But with new ball he is as good as Bhuvi.  Prasidh within 4 or 5 overs looks pedestrian.  All these bowlers look the same. Pretty much any one of them can travel in any match. Why not building a better batting unit in that case.   Chahal/Siraj/Prasidh. quintessential one-dimensional players. They have to be outstanding in that department 8 out of 10 times atleast. Otherwise we are screwed.

[Majestic]

3 minutes ago, Vijy said:

botham was a bowling AR. he had a purple patch at beginning of career, but even then he was a bowling AR who happened to avg close to 40. closest we have to a "balanced" AR is aubrey faulkner from the prehistoric era and shakib from the modern era; one could also add Sir Jaddu for the past several yrs.

It was not just a purple patch but a good enough peak of 4-5 years I guess where he was brilliant with both bat and bowl. 14 test hundreds and about 20+ 5-fers, that is the definition of pure all rounder for me.

 

Jadeja has been very good in last 4-5 years but Botham at his best produced scores like 149 in Headingley that changed the game single-handedly. He also has a 208 vs India or a few more scores of 130 odd, was a much better batsman than Jadeja. Jadeja has more support knocks like 50s and 60s but Botham was in an altogether different orbit as batsman. Got that 208 vs India at no 5.

 

Aubrey Faulkner, I can't say much because I haven't read much about him but Keith Miller was pretty close too from the 50s and 60s era.

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Cairns in ODIs was quite balanced

that is true in ODIs. there are more such balanced players in shorter format since one only needs to bowl 10 overs and do decently.

[Vijy]

6 minutes ago, Majestic said:

It was not just a purple patch but a good enough peak of 4-5 years I guess where he was brilliant with both bat and bowl. 14 test hundreds and about 20+ 5-fers, that is the definition of pure all rounder for me.

 

Jadeja has been very good in last 4-5 years but Botham at his best produced scores like 149 in Headingley that changed the game single-handedly. He also has a 208 vs India or a few more scores of 130 odd, was a much better batsman than Jadeja. Jadeja has more support knocks like 50s and 60s but Botham was in an altogether different orbit as batsman. Got that 208 vs India at no 5.

 

Aubrey Faulkner, I can't say much because I haven't read much about him but Keith Miller was pretty close too from the 50s and 60s era.

yes, Miller when he bowled regularly was one more. Imran Khan also had a period where he did well with bat and ball. however, if we are talking about an entire career - I would repeat that the closest two are faulkner and shakib. I am not saying that they are the "best", but only that they are the most balanced.

 

Btw, Sir Garry also had a roughly 35-test period during which he had a batting avg of 60+ and nearly 4 wkts per match.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/52946.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+dec+1968;spanmin1=01+jan+1961;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Edited February 6, 2022 by Vijy

[express bowling]

32 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

that's not the worst thing as long as bowling is considered first.

 

 

In an ideal world, yes. 

 

But in practice, it sometimes becomes the other way round  

 

 

 

[Majestic]

6 minutes ago, Vijy said:

yes, Miller when he bowled regularly was one more. Imran Khan also had a period where he did well with bat and ball. however, if we are talking about an entire career - I would repeat that the closest two are faulkner and shakib. I am not saying that they are the "best", but only that they are the most balanced.

 

Btw, Sir Garry also had a roughly 35-test period during which he had a batting avg of 60+ and nearly 4 wkts per match.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/52946.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+dec+1968;spanmin1=01+jan+1961;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Imran was never great in both disciplines. He was great in one when he was decent in other and when he was not bowling regularly, then he became a more solid consistent batsman.

 

Shakib is balanced but again playing for Bangladesh doesn't give him the chance to play against the best and show what he can do against them. Also, him skipping test matches go against him.

 

Sobers you are right he is up there.

 

For me, it will be Botham ultimately for some of the knocks that he produced with bat. He doesn't have not outs and batted higher up the order scoring 14 hundreds which is good enough to get into any team as a pure batsman. In his first seven years itself, he had hit 12 hundreds. His batting average was only 36 but he had just 3 not outs in 63 tests.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/9163.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+Dec+1983;spanmin1=28+Jul1977;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/9163.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+Dec+1983;spanmin1=28+Jul1977;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

[Vijy]

7 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Imran was never great in both disciplines. He was great in one when he was decent in other and when he was not bowling regularly, then he became a more solid consistent batsman.

 

Shakib is balanced but again playing for Bangladesh doesn't give him the chance to play against the best and show what he can do against them. Also, him skipping test matches go against him.

 

Sobers you are right he is up there.

 

For me, it will be Botham ultimately for some of the knocks that he produced with bat. He doesn't have not outs and batted higher up the order scoring 14 hundreds which is good enough to get into any team as a pure batsman. In his first seven years itself, he had hit 12 hundreds. His batting average was only 36 but he had just 3 not outs in 63 tests.

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/9163.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+Dec+1983;spanmin1=28+Jul1977;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/9163.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+Dec+1983;spanmin1=28+Jul1977;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

I saw Beefy play both on TV and live in Eng, so I am certainly not downplaying him. However, it is undeniable that his career is one of two halves. Huge talent, but both injuries and indiscipline (both words begin with "in") hampered him severely. Of the quartet, he was the best of the four as a batter. Hadlee was the best as a bowler.

 

Btw, here is Immy's record with bat and ball during the 10-yr peak when I saw him (helped of course by non-cricketing factors like umpiring):

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/40560.html?class=1;spanmax1=31+dec+1989;spanmin1=01+jan+1980;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Edited February 6, 2022 by Vijy

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Vijy said:

I saw Beefy play both on TV and live in Eng, so I am certainly not downplaying him. However, it is undeniable that his career is one of two halves. Huge talent, but both injuries and indiscipline (both words begin with "in") hampered him severely. Of the quartet, he was the best of the four as a batter. Hadlee was the best as a bowler.

 

Kapil definitely did not justice to his batting talents. He had only one way to go about his innings. Always high strike rate innings. IN terms of potential, raw talent Kapil was exceptional against both spin and pace. Imran khan over a period decide to slow down.  He was very good on flat wickets. If you ask me to pick a batsman to counterattack on a challenging wicket especially pace friendly wicket Kapil is the best. He can dismantle the fast bowlers with ridiculous ease. There was one match he literally swept Winston benjamin for six. And also destroyed Donald in the 1992 world cup.

[Vijy]

anyway, mea culpa for derailing the thread a bit. I like Deepak as an AR, though I don't think he should be a frontline pacer. Would like to see the following lineup from 6 to 11:

 

6. Sundar/Pandu/Jaddu [choose depending on conditions, assuming Pandu can & will bowl]

7. Deepak/Lord [choose as per conditions]

8. Axar/?? [need to identify a backup for Axar who can deliver accurate finger spin + tonk down the order]

9. bishnoi/rahul chahar/markande/kuldeep --> I think it's time to move beyond chahal. moreover, all of this quartet can bat to some degree

10. bumrah/mavi

11. siraj/prasidh/tyagi

 

of the current U19, I am looking forward to seeing Hangu (potential future no. 8), Sindhu (potential future no. 6), and Bawa (potential future no. 7) develop

 

@express bowling: I think this has 2 genuine attacking pacers + 1 wrist-spinner + 1 solid spinner + 2 utility cricketers. Thoughts?

Edited February 6, 2022 by Vijy

[Vijy]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Kapil definitely did not justice to his batting talents. He had only one way to go about his innings. Always high strike rate innings. IN terms of potential, raw talent Kapil was exceptional against both spin and pace. Imran khan over a period decide to slow down.  He was very good on flat wickets. If you ask me to pick a batsman to counterattack on a challenging wicket especially pace friendly wicket Kapil is the best. He can dismantle the fast bowlers with ridiculous ease. There was one match he literally swept Winston benjamin for six. And also destroyed Donald in the 1992 world cup.

having seen peak botham vs peak kapil, I can say that peak botham was even better as a batter. not as destructive in terms of SR (although he could and did play some glorious counter-attacking knocks), but a much more well-rounded batsman

Edited February 6, 2022 by Vijy

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, Vijy said:

having seen peak botham vs peak kapil, I can say that peak botham was even better as a better. not as destructive in terms of SR (although he could and did play some glorious counter-attacking knocks), but a much more well-rounded batsman

 

Botham against West Indies sucked balls lol That was the only team with decent bowling option. Kapil was pretty against Windies bowling back then. He thrashed Roberts/Holding/Garner/Marshall in a couple of Tests in West Indies. His strike rate was over 100. Even in bowling Kapil Dev was one of the best. Highest wicket taker against Windies in the 80s at an average of 24.

Edited February 6, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[Lone Wolf]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

anyway, mea culpa for derailing the thread a bit. I like Deepak as an AR, though I don't think he should be a frontline pacer. Would like to see the following lineup from 6 to 11:

 

6. Sundar/Pandu/Jaddu [choose depending on conditions, assuming Pandu can & will bowl]

7. Deepak/Lord [choose as per conditions]

8. Axar/?? [need to identify a backup for Axar who can deliver accurate finger spin + tonk down the order]

9. bishnoi/rahul chahar/markande --> I think it's time to move beyond chahal. moreover, all of this trio can bat to some degree

10. bumrah/mavi

11. siraj/prasidh

 

of the current U19, I am looking forward to seeing Hangu (potential future no. 8), Sindhu (potential future no. 6), and Bawa (potential future no. 7) develop

Bawa is a potential no 5/6 bat.  His progress will be worth following.  If everything goes well he could be India's Ben Stokes or flintoff in all three formats.  A left hander to boot as well.  

[Vijy]

Just now, Lone Wolf said:

Bawa is a potential no 5/6 bat.  His progress will be worth following.  If everything goes well he could be India's Ben Stokes or flintoff in all three formats.  A left hander to boot as well.  

yes, he could play at 6; I only mentioned #7 as a starting point. All three are pretty exciting ARs IMO: Bawa, Hangu, and Sindhu

[Majestic]

Deepak Chahar again proving that he is a very solid LOI player and should be an integral part of the team. As of today's date, with a batting average higher than Kohli and batting strike rate higher than de Villiers, he is making a strong case for himself as a genuine all-rounder. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Majestic

[Vijy]

6 hours ago, Majestic said:

Deepak Chahar again proving that he is a very solid LOI player and should be an integral part of the team. As of today's date, with a batting average higher than Kohli and batting strike rate higher than de Villiers, he is making a strong case for himself as a genuine all-rounder. 

DC (deepak chahar) is a street-smart batter. He does not have as much natural ball-striking ability as Thakur but makes up for it with awareness and game sense. Decent opening bowler as well - merits a run at No.7

[maniac]

OP’s cricket acumen

 

1000% agree

[RajBan]

Don't worry guys. When it comes to selection in big tournaments and series, Bhuvi will play ahead of Chahar, Prasidh and Siraj won't be even in the team, Bishnoi need to wait for 5 yrs , front three will be Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli with KL coming in the middle. We are too deep into seniority complex.

[Jay]

On 2/6/2022 at 9:30 PM, gakgupta said:

 

I mean...the way he played in SA 3rd ODI is laudable ..

 

I think he has that zeal and attitude to do special in one dayers...

 

He is my bowling all-rounder and definetly ahead of shards in one dayers

 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

I believe thakur at 7 and chahar at 8 followed by bishnoi and 2 premium bowlers is the way to go. Only concern is pacer 3. I am guessing chahar will be 1st change.

Just needs to keep it tight. Thakur is the most hittable out of the 4.