PM Imran Khan urges youth to hold countrywide protests against ‘foreign conspiracy’

[Lone Wolf]

6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Antitrust motion cancelled

He is set to go...  Will lose re election.  But it will give him sometime to maybe set something up with Americans.  US sits pretty well atm. 

[Lone Wolf]

5 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Its naive to think that Biden pulled out of Afghanistan to only destabilize Pakistan later. Pak PM has no real powers. It's army which matters. 

Army isn't official mouthpiece of Pakistan.  Imraand has fuelled religious extremism & has given Pakjabi Army & ISI several tensions within itself.  He is openly criticizing US which isn't something ISI wants him to do.  I did hear that he had some sort of fallout with ISI. 

[poyzzplaidwell]

From RAA ki Saazish.. 

To Umreekaah ki chaal.. lol. Apni koi galti nahi.. Beghairati hai Imran Khan.

[sandeep]

This entire mess is helping only one stakeholder in Pakistan - the military mafia.

 

They are sitting back and enjoying the chaos tamasha unleashed.  All this soap opera only serves to strengthen the perception within Pakistan, that the 'civilians' are just useless and incompetent, and "only army can save Pakistan".  

 

Classic "fifth generation warfare" inflicted on poor ghulam greenbros by the PakMil mafia. 

 

Imraant was always a misguided, ignorant puppet - one with good intentions no doubt, but still ignorant, incompetent and a puppet without the mental abilities to lead the country, or the actual power to make any kind of change apart from superficial re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic.

 

This drama is ultimately not about Imran, or about Nawaz or PPP etc.  Its about never allowing any entity or person to ever, even come across as competent, forget about actually being competent - apart from the mafia.  

 

At a certain level, I feel sorry for the greenbros.  They are well and truly crushed under the boots of the uniform-larping zamindar mafia, and they have no realistic way to come out of this slavery.  Its really sad for 200+ million folks.  And from an Indian perspective, as long as this mafia stays in charge, 'normal' stable relations with that 'country' are almost impossible.  So that kind of sucks. 

 

It is what it is.  Indian govt has to manage and deal with what's there.  Right now, all we can do is watch and eat popcorn.  Let them self-inflict harm on each other.  They kindof deserve it tbh.

[mishra]

On 4/3/2022 at 7:16 AM, ravishingravi said:

 

You seem like a typical social media PTI supporter who is repeating the same talking points that IK repeats in every speech. A Pakistan diplomat taking minutes of the meeting with US correspondent and this is the evidence of conspiracy. This is jahalat and your megalomaniac PM knows that it will work. US doesn't have to do meeting and infirm to bring down governments. 

 

Independent Foreign Policy 

1) Your economic sovereignty has been compromised to IMF. 

2) You cannot go against Saudi Arabia and China. Your independence doesn't allow you to visit Malaysia, attend democracy summit. 

3) Your military independently meets foreign heads and sets up discourse 

4) Imran has borrowed more in 3 years than what's was borrowed in last 50 years. This would never allow any freedom to choose. 

5) FATF is on your head. 

6) 10,000 TLP members made the state surrender. Where the independence.  

 

You have no independence. Only your elites with dual citizenship have it. 

 

On policies 

1) Actually Pakistan's GDP growth has gone down under Imran compared to Nawaz. I am talking pre covid. 

2) Pakistans foreign réservés is less that $15 bn which is roughly just two months imports. 

3) The education policy was a third rate stone age reform that will kill any possibility of using your demographic dividend. 

4) Free healthcare was good reform but in no way unique. He has just replicated what India and other countries have done. But no problems here. 

5) On infrastructure and taxes, I will take your word for it. On jobs, it's had to believe with shrinking investments and geographic instability. 

 

General Bajwa seems like most sensible leader. He spoke about geo politics and geo economics and reforming relations with India, US and China. This moron tweets like a Gunda and leader of Ummah when he has go to nations with begging bowl. 

 

I know how difficult it is for you folks given the options. I too believed that he could be the one to change things. But he is nothing but megalomaniac who has no clue of state craft and who is unwilling to learn. Army has therefore decided to cut their links. 

 

Don’t teach sense to them. Immy bhai sold so many Bonds , with this tag or that tag. Post maturity (after 10 years) they will need repayment. Thats when his last few years policies will start showing impacts

[mishra]

@sandeep even non Pakistani people who follow Pakistan (like me) now feel the Pakmil is probably better then these politicians 

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, mishra said:

@sandeep even non Pakistani people who follow Pakistan (like me) now feel the Pakmil is probably better then these politicians 

 

Better at what?

 

[mishra]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

 

Better at what?

 

Better at not looking ugly. This game of Pakistani politicians looks downright dirty and ugly and even a dictator will be ashamed in acting so low.

[G_B_]

Imrans biggest failure was the tax base...

 

Civilian or military Pakistan needs to balance the books. Even at the cost of economic growth.

 

Growth built on populism always ends in catastrophic consequences. Modis biggest victory have been the forex reseves rising from 273 billion to 617 billion today as a result of controlled spending and an aggressive fdi policy. It was complimented by an independent and competent central bank. As intetest rates rise things will get worse for countries without protection in reserves who import more than export. Watch as many more countries fall into the vortex 

 

Indias growth rate was actually higher during upa era. But it was build on populism and cheap debt. This resulted in a mini balance of payments crisis in 2013. God only knows why mms did not do anything.

 

We are finally exporting our way to growth. Its a small step but its in the right dirdction.

 

Dont just look at growth but the driver of said growth. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[First class]

10 hours ago, sandeep said:

This entire mess is helping only one stakeholder in Pakistan - the military mafia.

 

They are sitting back and enjoying the chaos tamasha unleashed.  All this soap opera only serves to strengthen the perception within Pakistan, that the 'civilians' are just useless and incompetent, and "only army can save Pakistan".  

 

Classic "fifth generation warfare" inflicted on poor ghulam greenbros by the PakMil mafia. 

 

Imraant was always a misguided, ignorant puppet - one with good intentions no doubt, but still ignorant, incompetent and a puppet without the mental abilities to lead the country, or the actual power to make any kind of change apart from superficial re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic.

 

This drama is ultimately not about Imran, or about Nawaz or PPP etc.  Its about never allowing any entity or person to ever, even come across as competent, forget about actually being competent - apart from the mafia.  

 

At a certain level, I feel sorry for the greenbros.  They are well and truly crushed under the boots of the uniform-larping zamindar mafia, and they have no realistic way to come out of this slavery.  Its really sad for 200+ million folks.  And from an Indian perspective, as long as this mafia stays in charge, 'normal' stable relations with that 'country' are almost impossible.  So that kind of sucks. 

 

It is what it is.  Indian govt has to manage and deal with what's there.  Right now, all we can do is watch and eat popcorn.  Let them self-inflict harm on each other.  They kindof deserve it tbh.

You might enjoy and take pleasure from your analysis about Pakistan situation  but that tells me how little Indians know about Pakistan . Imran is a very shrewd and intelligent person and knows how to play his cards. Army is still very popular in Pakistan , particularly in Punjab and PKP and they don't want to do any grossly unpopular step, including messing up with IK who is also very popular in those two provinces. Compared to Sharif and Zardari, this guy Imran Khan wants to have some say in Pakistan's foreign policy also and he does not want to give a 2nd  extension to Bajwa as the amy chief , which is due in November. Bajwa also wants anyone but IK stay in power, but if IK comes back, he will appoint army chief of his onw choice . So its a multiprong power struggle which is new in Pakistan , as generally politician in Pakistan make a quick deal with army, not IK.  Army is pro-USA but IK knows Pakistan's financial future is with regional players like China and Russia . USA has given nothing but trouble to Pakistan. 

[rangeelaraja]

51 minutes ago, First class said:

Army is pro-USA but IK knows Pakistan's financial future is with regional players like China and Russia . USA has given nothing but trouble to Pakistan. 

 

@First class

 

You well and truly epitomize the intellectual dishonesty if not ignorance of your lot.

 

If China has been so good...why have the CPEC terms been shrouded in secrecy ?  Why has Pakistan not made the terms and conditions of the loans public. 

 

Unlike US, which gave you GRANTS worth BILLIONS ( NOT LOANS), China has given loans where you have been forced to mortgage your major motorways, airports and even parks to China.

 

So much for how your " finanicial future" is with players like China.

 

Sri Lanka , Maldives and several African  countries have been decimated with Chinese debt. 

 

Sri Lanka too was forced to lease for 99 years its port and is totally and utterly bankrupt now in dealing with China - just where Pakistan is ahead thanks to " CPAAAC " 

 

US on the other hand threw free money on your face. 

 

You are no small country - the 5th largest in the world - 220 million plus - yet self dependence is apparently not in the national character.

 

Survival is always about becoming a client state to a major power who can sell you arms against India, and playing the Kashmir boogle.

 

Sadly for you, you will see in your lifetime, that the impossible and all consuming lust for a territory ( Kashmir ) which was never yours will consume everything remaining in Pak.

Edited April 5, 2022 by rangeelaraja

[rangeelaraja]

7 hours ago, mishra said:

Better at not looking ugly. This game of Pakistani politicians looks downright dirty and ugly and even a dictator will be ashamed in acting so low.

 

 

 

[Axl100mph]

On 4/3/2022 at 5:11 PM, Mohan Swamy said:

Lol bro, you need a massive reality check.

 

When Imran took charge, one USD was like 107 PKR, and during the last few days it reached like 182 level. That cannot be an indication of good performance no matter how you spin it.

 

He appealed to overseas Pakistanis to contribute to the Dam fund and then pocketed all that money. There is absolutely no evidence of work happening on any dam.

 

He promised 5 million homes and 1 crore jobs. Those are nowhere in sight.

 

@Autonomous bro this needs your attention 

 

Lol ishaq dar the finance minister who has fled to the UK along with Sharif was an economic hitman who showcased achieved a fake import based growth with an exceedingly high current account deficit. He also artificially stopped the USD from inflating by releasing all the reserves in the market. When the PTI came to power, all of these realities hit them n we immediately saw a rise in the USD as well as massive inflation..

You look at the economic pointers right now and they are all exceedingly better than how they were in 2017.

 

[First class]

1 hour ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

@First class

 

You well and truly epitomize the intellectual dishonesty if not ignorance of your lot.

 

If China has been so good...why have the CPEC terms been shrouded in secrecy ?  Why has Pakistan not made the terms and conditions of the loans public. 

 

Unlike US, which gave you GRANTS worth BILLIONS ( NOT LOANS), China has given loans where you have been forced to mortgage your major motorways, airports and even parks to China.

 

So much for how your " finanicial future" is with players like China.

 

Sri Lanka , Maldives and several African  countries have been decimated with Chinese debt. 

 

Sri Lanka too was forced to lease for 99 years its port and is totally and utterly bankrupt now in dealing with China - just where Pakistan is ahead thanks to " CPAAAC " 

 

US on the other hand threw free money on your face. 

 

You are no small country - the 5th largest in the world - 220 million plus - yet self dependence is apparently not in the national character.

 

Survival is always about becoming a client state to a major power who can sell you arms against India, and playing the Kashmir boogle.

 

Sadly for you, you will see in your lifetime, that the impossible and all consuming lust for a territory ( Kashmir ) which was never yours will consume everything remaining in Pak.

No country gives free money to any other country, neither USA, nor China . You're mixing things, due to lack of knowledge. 

[rangeelaraja]

23 minutes ago, First class said:

No country gives free money to any other country, neither USA, nor China . You're mixing things, due to lack of knowledge. 

You did not read/comprehend it all. 
 

I also mentioned client state in my above post.

 

That’s the price that Pak pays to every new owner. 
 

With Uncle Sam, ZIA UL haq  offered Pakistan to be a petting zoo for mujahideens to fight soviets in return for the best of western arms to fight india. You ended up making your country a fundamentalist hell hole and have never recovered from fundamentalism
 

Please read up your history - it was ZIA up haq that made the offer to Uncle Sam. 
 

With China, you promised to shut your mouth on the xighur genocide in return for CPACC which is essentially Chinese giving you high interest loans to built infrastructure that THEY could use as a roadway to enter Western China by road.

 

Pakistan is today far far worse off than both the country it was born out of ( India ) and the country that took birth from Pakistan ( Bangladesh )

 

And you have only yourself and your

characterless rulers to blame. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by rangeelaraja

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, First class said:

You might enjoy and take pleasure from your analysis about Pakistan situation  but that tells me how little Indians know about Pakistan . Imran is a very shrewd and intelligent person and knows how to play his cards. Army is still very popular in Pakistan , particularly in Punjab and PKP and they don't want to do any grossly unpopular step, including messing up with IK who is also very popular in those two provinces. Compared to Sharif and Zardari, this guy Imran Khan wants to have some say in Pakistan's foreign policy also and he does not want to give a 2nd  extension to Bajwa as the amy chief , which is due in November. Bajwa also wants anyone but IK stay in power, but if IK comes back, he will appoint army chief of his onw choice . So its a multiprong power struggle which is new in Pakistan , as generally politician in Pakistan make a quick deal with army, not IK.  Army is pro-USA but IK knows Pakistan's financial future is with regional players like China and Russia . USA has given nothing but trouble to Pakistan. 

 

haan bhai, Imran 'very good'.  Pak army even more 'very good'.  Ab khush? 

 

Do I honestly care which politician 'wins' in Pakistan, or whether army continues to rule? No. To be blunt, I don't give a flying F what kind of government ends up in control in Pak.  As an Indian, my interest is primarily in having a Pakistani government that isn't hostile to India, doesn't inflict terrorism in India. So why is it that so many greenbros somehow believe that India wants "corrupt Nawaz" or some other specific choice for leadership in Pak? 

 

 

As a human who actually wants good outcomes for entire subcontinent - I honestly think that army's role in Pakistan is bad for entire subcontinent, and especially really bad for Pakistanis.  You clearly disagree.  Fine - that's your prerogative. 

 

But I would appreciate if you attempt to engage in constructive discussion instead of choosing to feel "offended" just because somebody has a different perspective or opinion.  

 

And as far as your little paragraph of 'analysis' is concerned - what exactly are you trying to tell us that we don't know?  That army is very popular in Pakistan? That's pretty obvious. 

 

Now you're sitting here and asserting that Imran is "very shrewd and intelligent person, knows how to play his cards" - well, I'm going to be polite and say that I strongly disagree.  Poor dude has good intentions, but is hopelessly out of his depth when it comes to governing, or political maneuvering.  I mean, the 20 years of political failure is evidence enough, the only way he became PM is well-known with major "assistance" from majors and jernail, kernails.   

 

And all this draameybaazi going on right now, even if he "wins" brownie points or perception from all the crazy stuff he's shouting, pakistani politics, governance, and electoral setup is suffering big time - so for all the 'love' that Imran fans can shower on him for his 'fiery speeches' and 'shrewd loophole finding', is kindof short-sighted.  Not unlike clapping for the 2 wild shots that a Shahid Afridi would hit to the boundary, before throwing his wicket in typical fashion before the inevitable team defeat.  

 

I mean, I get the desperate desire to support a political leader who at a minimum, appears to be non-corrupt at a personal 'greed' level - you may not like this comparison - but Modi is very similar in that regard - many an Indian voter feels the same way - hey, he may have other flaws, but at least Modi is known to be clean from corruption.  But you know what, Just like Modi has certain major red flags when it comes to his past when it comes to deploying religious rhetoric for politcal gains - Imraan has several red flags in terms of non-monetary corruption.  He is repeatedly demonstrating a consistent disregard for rule of law, for institutional governance - something that he used to talk and talk constantly about before he managed to grab his shot at the Kursi.  And now that he has the PM chair, he is ready to break any and all rules to hold on to it.  Because he thinks he's Pakistan's anointed savior and the ends justify the means - to hell with "strengthening institutions".  This sort of megalomanic self-importance is only going to hurt Pakistan once you stop thinking from a desperate short-term mentality.    

 

Bottomline - its hard to explain or wash away the current chaos that has engulfed Pakistani governing institutions - Imran bears a big chunk of responsibility (apart from the puppeteers that run the show).  You can't just shut your eyes to his repeated screwups just because of a distaste for the other "corrupt" politicians.  This is, by the way, the exact same logic that has led to easy election wins in India for the BJP - people were just sick and tired of decades of poor governance and institutional corruption of the Congress party.  

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, First class said:

No country gives free money to any other country, neither USA, nor China . You're mixing things, due to lack of knowledge. 

That's sort of inaccurate.  USA has given billions in aid to Pakistan - during the cold war for 'helping' the US resume ties with the Chinese Communists to weaken the USSR, and later more billions in exchange for helping US convert Afghanistan into USSR's 'vietnam disaster'.  The billions given to pak after 9/11 for renting itself out to the US 'war on terror' are well documented.  Problem is that the US loan and aid shop is now closed for the foreseeable future, and the Chinese are only going to give Chinese weapons, and Loans not aid, to Pakistan.  And those loans are given at exhorbitant commercial interest rates, not soft loans like IMF or World Bank, or Japan/US etc.

 

There's a very good reason why the PakMil mafia have marked the CPEC contracts and documents as 'classified'.  Because when the first early versions were published by Pak Media (obtained from Chinese sources btw) it was very clear that some very skewed lop-sided deals were made favoring chinese businesses., specifically in the contractual terms and conditions for the power companies.  And unprecedented market access has been gifted away in the agricultural sector to the Chinese in the name of "modernization".  You may want to look into these specific points since you clearly appear to care about the economic future of Pakistan.  

Edited April 5, 2022 by sandeep

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Axl100mph said:

 

Lol ishaq dar the finance minister who has fled to the UK along with Sharif was an economic hitman who showcased achieved a fake import based growth with an exceedingly high current account deficit. He also artificially stopped the USD from inflating by releasing all the reserves in the market. When the PTI came to power, all of these realities hit them n we immediately saw a rise in the USD as well as massive inflation..

You look at the economic pointers right now and they are all exceedingly better than how they were in 2017.

 

 

Its a fair argument to make that Imran has done decently with the bad hand he was left to play with - on the economy.   And to be fair, his instinctive refusal to go "full lockdown" in response to covid turned out to be a very good and correct call.  But apart from the Covid response (which also depended a bit on pure luck if we're being honest), its hard to give too much credit to Imran.  I mean, its not like he's done 'brilliant' with the Pak economy.  At best you can say that it could have been worse if he wasn't there - but that's not really a sure thing - it may well could have been better too.  Or maybe the 'other guys' may have made similar moves. who knows.  Its not like Imran has pulled off anything special on the economic front.  Most of his 'achievements' are mostly stats-massaging and cherrypicking if you take an objective look at things.  Pak economy is still in a major crisis.  

[bharathh]

27 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

Its a fair argument to make that Imran has done decently with the bad hand he was left to play with - on the economy.   And to be fair, his instinctive refusal to go "full lockdown" in response to covid turned out to be a very good and correct call.  But apart from the Covid response (which also depended a bit on pure luck if we're being honest), its hard to give too much credit to Imran.  I mean, its not like he's done 'brilliant' with the Pak economy.  At best you can say that it could have been worse if he wasn't there - but that's not really a sure thing - it may well could have been better too.  Or maybe the 'other guys' may have made similar moves. who knows.  Its not like Imran has pulled off anything special on the economic front.  Most of his 'achievements' are mostly stats-massaging and cherrypicking if you take an objective look at things.  Pak economy is still in a major crisis.  

 

 

What has Imran done to help their economy? Not that I'm complaining. - but Pak economy is in its worst condition ever! What has he done to make any change other than make gas prices cheaper - by pushing the problem for future govts to handle. Their CAD is in the worst situation ever. They are close to running out of money constantly - in fact even renting out the PM's residence was considered. They go around begging money from any country they see and continue to splurge on military when they cannot afford to. Inflation is out of control and barely a step away from becoming like Venezuela/Zimbabwe. 

 

Exactly what has Imran done for anyone to say he has done anything to prevent the economy from failing? 

[ravishingravi]

30 minutes ago, bharathh said:

 

 

What has Imran done to help their economy? Not that I'm complaining. - but Pak economy is in its worst condition ever! What has he done to make any change other than make gas prices cheaper - by pushing the problem for future govts to handle. Their CAD is in the worst situation ever. They are close to running out of money constantly - in fact even renting out the PM's residence was considered. They go around begging money from any country they see and continue to splurge on military when they cannot afford to. Inflation is out of control and barely a step away from becoming like Venezuela/Zimbabwe. 

 

Exactly what has Imran done for anyone to say he has done anything to prevent the economy from failing? 

 

Actually he has managed to destroy the economy with disastrous foreign policy. To my mind, on covid, there was no choice. Country is already bankrupt. Average age of Pakistan is 23 years. They were never going to be susceptible to a great degree. And also if you stop counting, cases and deaths can be controlled.