We Need to Talk About Dravid

[Lord]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

India just lost a unlosable test match  under Dravid.  He may have worked with 6 different captain on the field but those are all temporary , Rohit might not have played but he was there to discuss and implement the strategy. All others were temporary captain.

 

Nobody is asking Dravid to be sacked. 

 

 

 

Temporary captains can't just execute strategy set by someone else. They need to be good for that too.Lot of things happen on field to which onfield captain,temporary or permanent,has to react to. Coach can't do much there.Even if temporary,captain is the one in charge more than a coach.

 

We didn't lose the match because of any bad strategy. We just bowled badly defending 378. 

[putrevus]

14 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Temporary captains can't just execute strategy set by someone else. They need to be good for that too.Lot of things happen on field to which onfield captain,temporary or permanent,has to react to. Coach can't do much there.Even if temporary,captain is the one in charge more than a coach.

 

We didn't lose the match because of any bad strategy. We just bowled badly defending 378. 

Again you taking what is happening on the field.I am talking about what is Dravid's gameplan for this team in all formats.

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

 

I think people are being impatient with Dravid.  I have already posted threads questioning Dravid's suitability for what Indian team needs to take that next step in its evolution. But having expressed my reservations, I think there are positive contributions that Dravid can make in his tenure.  Maybe not 100% of what's needed but some good non-trivial steps in the right direction.  At a minimum, I expect a better, more unselfish team culture to be attempted while he's coach, hopefully that can become more entrenched over time.  

 

Expecting Dravid as head coach to fix "technical" problems in batting etc is bit unrealistic.  At this level, minor tweaks and guidance is all a coach can provide.  Rest is up to the player.  For example, Can't blame Kohli's failures on coaching, its on him at this stage in his career.

yes, there is impatience, but I think some of it is warranted, especially in LOIs. if we get positive results in the WCs and Dravid's contribution there is tangible, I will be happy to be proven wrong

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Nobody is blaiming Rahul for losses. But coach's main job is to create identity with captain . I don't see any such thing in last nine months. If Dravid was/is not happy with captain then he should not be coaching the team. 

"Identity" is created over time, not instantly.  And takes even longer to become visible.

 

To be fair, I was in the minority of those who were skeptical about Dravid as coach, and to a degree I still am. But already I am seeing a couple of things that at least speculatively, can be attributed to Dravid. 

 

First - he's being consistent with playing XI selections, even boringly so, but with a clear and obvious intent to provide proper long ropes to the players who aren't regulars.  Now in few cases, we as fans may not even want to see that long rope being given to the Ishan Kishans and Shreyas Iyers.  But the underlying point is a good one.  Once a player makes the team, he isn't going to be chucked after an ad hoc game or 2 - like Kohli was very likely to do.

 

Second - we are seeing the beginning of a tactical shift in team batting tactics and seeing top order batsmen start to attempt batting with more initiative. Credit for this should go to Rohit as skipper, but some of it should go to Dravid as well.

 

 

So there are some positive indicators here, at least enough to buy some time and patience.  Let's see how the team goes forward from here.

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

"Identity" is created over time, not instantly.  And takes even longer to become visible.

 

To be fair, I was in the minority of those who were skeptical about Dravid as coach, and to a degree I still am. But already I am seeing a couple of things that at least speculatively, can be attributed to Dravid. 

 

First - he's being consistent with playing XI selections, even boringly so, but with a clear and obvious intent to provide proper long ropes to the players who aren't regulars.  Now in few cases, we as fans may not even want to see that long rope being given to the Ishan Kishans and Shreyas Iyers.  But the underlying point is a good one.  Once a player makes the team, he isn't going to be chucked after an ad hoc game or 2 - like Kohli was very likely to do.

 

Second - we are seeing the beginning of a tactical shift in team batting tactics and seeing top order batsmen start to attempt batting with more initiative. Credit for this should go to Rohit as skipper, but some of it should go to Dravid as well.

 

 

So there are some positive indicators here, at least enough to buy some time and patience.  Let's see how the team goes forward from here.

9 months is not an instant. I always welcome giving players long runs. Sometimes giving players consistent run when they are not in form can be counter productive,

 

We saw a definte game plan when Dravid was odi captain, they wanted to improve as a chasing team.Dhoni, Yuvi and Raina became better players under chasing pressure. What is Dravid the coach thinking, short term and long term.

 

Shastri wanted five bowlers in the team and they stuck to it thru series losses.

 

I am not advocating Dravid to be fired either.

[Nikhil_cric]

Since 2015, only team apart from Australia to win an ODI series in England and THE only team to win both T20 and ODI series on the same tour. Still no credit to Dravid?

Edited July 17, 2022 by Nikhil_cric

[Vijy]

I am still not happy with Dravid for his selection of T20/Test bowlers, but I want to say that the TM backing (including Dravid) of Pant has been a welcome step in the right direction in ODIs. in his last 10 innings, pant has scored 4 or 5 scores of >50. has an avg of 50+ and an SR of over 110. he appears to be turning the corner.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Vijy

[express bowling]

I am very happy to see Dravid / Rohit  play 4 proper quick bowlers in ODIs.

 

Bumrah / Siraj

Shami

Prasidh

Hardik

 

Now this is a proper pace attack.

 

No floaty medium pacers.

 

And we see the result.

 

This much vaunted English LOI batting lineup could not even cross 260 in the entire series, in their own backyard. 

 

Way to go !!

 

P.S .... Sad that the same TM are planning to play a floaty medium-pace bowling attack in T20s in Australia.

Edited July 18, 2022 by express bowling

[Vijy]

47 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I am very happy to see Dravid / Rohit  play 4 proper quick bowlers in ODIs.

 

Bumrah / Siraj

Shami

Prasidh

Hardik

 

Now this is a proper pace attack.

 

No floaty medium pacers.

 

And we see the result.

 

This much vaunted English LOI batting lineup could not even cross 260 in the entire series, in their own backyard. 

 

Way to go !!

 

P.S .... Sad that the same TM are planning to play a floaty nedoum-pace bowling attack in T20s in Australia.

seems to be because they consider such bowlers "safe" despite the fact that they could go for 40-50+ runs in 4 overs (as what happened to harshal).

[rollingstoned]

11 hours ago, Vijy said:

I am still not happy with Dravid for his selection of T20/Test bowlers, but I want to say that the TM backing (including Dravid) of Pant has been a welcome step in the right direction in ODIs. in his last 10 innings, pant has scored 4 or 5 scores of >50. has an avg of 50+ and an SR of over 110. he appears to be turning the corner.

Dravid needs at least a year before he can be judged properly imo. At the peak of his tenure - hopefully - the likes of Hitman and Kohli won't even be around which will allow him to mould a team that will bear his unquestionable stamp. Current squads in all formats seem like a relative Mish mash. 

[Vijy]

20 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Dravid needs at least a year before he can be judged properly imo. At the peak of his tenure - hopefully - the likes of Hitman and Kohli won't even be around which will allow him to mould a team that will bear his unquestionable stamp. Current squads in all formats seem like a relative Mish mash. 

yes, there's a mostly non-performing old guard and a crew of rotating youngsters.

[The Realist]

[putrevus]

There is one definite conclusion we can draw about Dravid, he favors all trundlers. 

 

Second thing he rarely gives chances to new fast bowlers.

Edited October 4, 2022 by putrevus

[putrevus]

India coach Rahul Dravid: Good to get the right results in both series. In this format, you need luck, things to go your way, especially in close games. We didn't have that in the Asia Cup, but had some luck during the Australia series. We were able to rotate the squad a bit, pleased with how it's gone overall. We made a decision after the last T20 WC, sat down with Rohit, made a conscious effort to be positive. We have the batsmanship to play positively, we had to structure our squad with batting depth. Pleased with the way we've come along. Bumrah's absence is a big loss, he's been a great player but it happens, it's an opportunity for someone else to stand up. We'll miss him, his personality around the group. Today was an opportunity to give guys who haven't had much batting to get some time. It's hard on guys like Rishabh, Dinesh. Wish both of them could've continued, they were batting beautifully. 4-5 overs more and it could've been a lot closer. Happy with the way we kept going, Harshal and Deepak and the other guy

 

 

Is this guy for real. What exactly is he pleased about, his death bowlers going regularly for 50 plus runs?

[vivek04]

Bringing back old mediocre days of bowling and fielding.

[straighttalk]

The criticism of dravid and Rohit is warranted specially to the focus on trundlers in t20. However since they don't back trundlers in test or odis, it seems they believe in that skill set of slower balls yorkers defensive bowling over attacking bowling. Whether that is right or wrong is up for debate. I think it is wrong and will be more exposed due to Bumrahs absence.

 

But to give credit where due.

 

1. Attacking mindset in t20 batting

2. Backing players but sometimes backing the wrong players

 My main issues with him are as follows

1. Not selecting the right team to play the attacking brand of cricket

2. Lack of variety in attack.

3. With so much experimentation..team is still too dependent on pandya jadeja and Bumrah with no backups.

4. Panic mode recall of Shami umesh Siraj and completely discarding Avesh after so many chances. 

5. Backing players with low ceiling like harshal and avesh. Avesh in particular has mediocre ipl and there is nothing in his bowling that suggests he will do well. He isn't part of the reserves or the net bowlers... That shows how much time has been wasted on him

[IndianRenegade]

2 hours ago, straighttalk said:

 

3. With so much experimentation..team is still too dependent on pandya jadeja and Bumrah with no backups.

 

experimentation is aimed at giving rest to the regulars, as soon as the regulars are available the team almost always reverts back to them 

[coffee_rules]

 

So Asia cup is just an aberration. Daro mat saathiyon!! Agala number hamara

Edited October 4, 2022 by coffee_rules

[IndianRenegade]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

 

So Asia cup is just an aberration. Daro mat saathiyon!! Agala number hamara

To be fair, they batted much better in Asia cup& attacked at the top. We failed because of our fielding & bowling.

Edited October 5, 2022 by IndianRenegade

[coffee_rules]

1 minute ago, IndianRenegade said:

To be fair, they batted much better in Asia cup& attacked at the top. We failed because of our fielding & bowling.

Yes, glad you noticed, but given the sentiments against Dravid in this thread, it is an unpopular opinion