Why are we trying to bring back Trundler Culture in Indian cricket again ?? Our pace bowling revolution started with the pace and bounce of Bumrah and Shami.and the height of Ishant.

[AKane]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

Shardul Thakur getting into both the A-team squads is so weird.

 

He is an established pacer.

 

A budding young pacer could have been developed in his place  

 

 

 

Thakur seems to have focused on these 2 things.

 

1) Drop pace by 10 kmph - go from 135-140 kmph bowler to 125-130 kmph.   For his height that is a huge drop and it showed in the recent test.

2) Focus on batting instead of bowling. End result seems he is good at neither. Opponents have now studied how he bats and he does not get too many full pitched balls to drive.

 

He may be in A-squads to keep him in practice.... whatever. But so long as he does not end the top two things he has done and increase speed and decrease focus on batting.... he may be done.

 

I don't know why people take advice when things are going ok. Whatever he was doing last year esp in Australia was working - don't tinker with what works. Dravid and company seem to have got into his head. 

 

 

 

[Vilander]

 

you guys dont know ****.

 

 

 

Big boss

 

 

 

angry young boss

 

 

 

and Pandi madam

 

 

 

 

make the rules.

 

 

 

[Jay]

7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

absolutely , u just cant make it to a side with inconsistent performance and lesser value when their is already someone established. 

 

• Avesh khan got his chances and didnt make it count
• Arshdeep made it count
• Harshal made it count 
• Umran didnt, although didnt get enough but he was showing negative value so was tough to back him for long 
• Hooda and DK made enough out of whatever chances they got 
• Prasidh has been given a good run in ODI now 

 

In a limited period giving everyone a fair run wasnt going to be possible , they gave chances to few and a fair run at that............whoever utilized it is on plane . 

If this was kohli time they wudnt have even gotten a chance after 2 failures 

Yea india are ruthless when it comes to game time. No patience at all. 

[vvvslaxman]

41 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yea india are ruthless when it comes to game time. No patience at all. 

 

 You have to be a cricketer with niche skill to get ahead of the pack. If only these guys had exhibited skills of bowling well in death overs they would have had the preference. Basically you have to be smart about your roles in the IPL.  If Arshdeep and Harshal had not bowled well in the death overs, they would have never been picked for a very long time.  So many guys did well with new ball. Even Mukesh Chaudhary did well swinging the ball back into the right handers. Umesh was in top form with new ball.  Very much like how DK was picked ahead of so many younger guys. He had zero competition from indians for hsi designated role. His only competition was from Livingstone, Russell, Miller.  Having said that Moshin khan was good both in death and opening. He totally outbowled Avesh Khan who also played for the same team. Yet his name did not even come up during selection.

[Jay]

25 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 You have to be a cricketer with niche skill to get ahead of the pack. If only these guys had exhibited skills of bowling well in death overs they would have had the preference. Basically you have to be smart about your roles in the IPL.  If Arshdeep and Harshal had not bowled well in the death overs, they would have never been picked for a very long time.  So many guys did well with new ball. Even Mukesh Chaudhary did well swinging the ball back into the right handers. Umesh was in top form with new ball.  Very much like how DK was picked ahead of so many younger guys. He had zero competition from indians for hsi designated role. His only competition was from Livingstone, Russell, Miller.  Having said that Moshin khan was good both in death and opening. He totally outbowled Avesh Khan who also played for the same team. Yet his name did not even come up during selection.

Yes strange politics. First need to get past the political angle. Then you need to get past quota criteria. After that it's sycophant quota. 

[express bowling]

Some bowling coach needs to work on Umran's stock delivery.

 

If this aspect improves then he will be completely transformed as a bowler.

 

But it is my impression that he is trying too many different types of deliveries an over and getting hit. But no one seems to be guiding him regarding this aspect. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

18 hours ago, Jay said:

Yea india are ruthless when it comes to game time. No patience at all. 

avesh got full chances cant complain

prasidh getting full chances cant complain

 

Everyone wont get a decent run , thats not possible 

[Ankit_sharma03]

For all the cry that why didnt umran play in NZ-A games earlier, here is the end result

 

1st innings - 10 over 54 runs , No wkts..............5.4 Eco

2nd innings - 11 overs 55 runs, No wkts......................5.5 Eco 

 

Total - 21 over 109 run , no wkts 

 

Imagine if some lesser speed guy wud have had these figures.....................Kya RR machate 

 

This is why he doesnt get regular chances coz it hurts the team. Selectors are doing their best to give him chances but he cant be given every chance

 

[Stan AF]

Selectors to ICF

 

[vvvslaxman]

3 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

For all the cry that why didnt umran play in NZ-A games earlier, here is the end result

 

1st innings - 10 over 54 runs , No wkts..............5.4 Eco

2nd innings - 11 overs 55 runs, No wkts......................5.5 Eco 

 

Total - 21 over 109 run , no wkts 

 

Imagine if some lesser speed guy wud have had these figures.....................Kya RR machate 

 

This is why he doesnt get regular chances coz it hurts the team. Selectors are doing their best to give him chances but he cant be given every chance

 

 

He is an unfinished product. He can be used as a 2nd change bowler in T20s first in inconsequential bi-laterals. Genuine quicks have a very short span of career. They don't play like  Jimmy Anderson, Stuart broad for decades.  His speed already dropped against Ireland. No idea why. If you want to be picked as an X factor, you should not lose the very attribute that made you the X-factor. Pace is his attribute. Losing 10ks make you look like just another fast bowler. A fast bowler with no other skill.

[express bowling]

Rishi Dhawan replaces injured Navdeep Saini.

 

Seriously  !

 

Just as I thought that the selectors are making amends, they strike again.

 

What is their vision for Indian cricket ????

 

A 32 year old trundler all-rounder is replacing a specialist express bowler  !!!!  Amazing !!

 

And he may block Bawa's spot in the playing 11.

[Need4Speed]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

Some bowling coach needs to work on Umran's stock delivery.

 

If this aspect improves then he will be completely transformed as a bowler.

 

But it is my impression that he is trying too many different types of deliveries an over and getting hit. But no one seems to be guiding him regarding this aspect. 

I fail to understand..what coaching setup we have to groom such players..due to lack international level high pace bowlers..they need to open a separate centre..like some express or high pace academy..where they only concentrate on bowlers with 145kph speed..

groom their stock deliveries..

swing/seam movements..

use of short bowling with proper accuracy

fitness//diet —coaching/plan

workload/practice watch..even in domestic circuit

Death bowling

specific drills

bowling action analysis..any slight improvemt..without tinkering too much on natural action

run up analysis/improvement

pressure scenario bowling practice

uderstanding ones or strength/weakness

field alignment and practice bowling according to the field

studying batsmen weakness and come up with your plan

studying pitch behavior and how to vary your line and length accordingly

 

regular milestones and tracking improvements

categories can be divided based on U-19,domestic,international experience and priority/fitness

 

 

MRF pace academy seems to be generic..I am asking for actual high pace academy only to concentrate on 145kph bowlers..a focussed approach on 10 bowlers will be great

 We have money and infra..get the specialist coaches from worldwide and even mental coaching as well so that bowlers can use brains too

 

 

 

[rollingstoned]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He is an unfinished product. He can be used as a 2nd change bowler in T20s first in inconsequential bi-laterals. Genuine quicks have a very short span of career. They don't play like  Jimmy Anderson, Stuart broad for decades.  His speed already dropped against Ireland. No idea why. If you want to be picked as an X factor, you should not lose the very attribute that made you the X-factor. Pace is his attribute. Losing 10ks make you look like just another fast bowler. A fast bowler with no other skill.

Don't know Nortjes first class record but despite how leaky he was and still is they back him for this same reason. You need to at least bend if not break the rules for some players. 

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

I fail to understand..what coaching setup we have to groom such players..due to lack international level high pace bowlers..they need to open a separate centre..like some express or high pace academy..where they only concentrate on bowlers with 145kph speed..

groom their stock deliveries..

swing/seam movements..

use of short bowling with proper accuracy

fitness//diet —coaching/plan

workload/practice watch..even in domestic circuit

Death bowling

specific drills

bowling action analysis..any slight improvemt..without tinkering too much on natural action

run up analysis/improvement

pressure scenario bowling practice

uderstanding ones or strength/weakness

field alignment and practice bowling according to the field

studying batsmen weakness and come up with your plan

studying pitch behavior and how to vary your line and length accordingly

 

regular milestones and tracking improvements

categories can be divided based on U-19,domestic,international experience and priority/fitness

 

 

MRF pace academy seems to be generic..I am asking for actual high pace academy only to concentrate on 145kph bowlers..a focussed approach on 10 bowlers will be great

 We have money and infra..get the specialist coaches from worldwide and even mental coaching as well so that bowlers can use brains too

 

 

 

I had wrote about this a long time back.

 

But nothing has happened so far.

 

 

I

[vvvslaxman]

8 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Don't know Nortjes first class record but despite how leaky he was and still is they back him for this same reason. You need to at least bend if not break the rules for some players. 

 

Nortje came through ranks. Actually Umran's path is much easier.  Few 150k plus overs. Next year bagged for 8 crores. Had one breathtaking spell. Then A tour selection. Selected for T20 nationals.  Not like he has fallen out of favor. He is still very much in the running.  When Bumrah came in India was in building phase. Nehra was on his last legs. Besides Ashwin was the regular opening bowler for us during the period between 2014 and 2016. Shami was still not yet the shami we have now. Anyway he wasn't a great T20 bowler. Bhuvi was the other guy. Bumrah's competition was Dhawal Kulkarni, Sran, Mohit sharma, Aravind. Look at Umran's competitiors.    Siraj, Prasidh, Moshin besides the seniors like Bhuvi, Bumrah.  Also Bumrah didn't take too long to develop. First match 3 wickets including Warner. Then after a couple of matches he looked the part

 

Between 2014-2016 opening bowling breakup.

[Vilander]

On 9/17/2022 at 7:31 AM, Lone Wolf said:

Saini should go the Rauf way and become a T20 specialist.  4 overs of sheer pace & hard length + nailing his skill of yorker should be enough for whatever future he has left.  I'd like to see him in overseas leagues too as he would be pretty handy in BBL or the SA league but ain't happening. 

One of the things that is happening is that Indian t20 players don’t get to play overseas and are not gaining crucial skill and level upgrades, Ipl increases only certain attributes.

[Need4Speed]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

Sa are better at developing quicker pacers,have you seen how his action has changed,also pitches are different.

 

Look at India ,mrf has been around for ages and still Tamil Nadu can't produce a half decent ranji pacer after all these years ,they have to bring in warrier from kerela.They need to get these academies where there is talent ,maybe then there could be some progress.

They need to setup pace academy in north and central India and also tell that all those who will bowl consistently well with 150kph..unko GORMENT jaab milegi..

then all middle and lower class people will prepare for that..lol..

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

Sa are better at developing quicker pacers,have you seen how his action has changed,also pitches are different.

 

Look at India ,mrf has been around for ages and still Tamil Nadu can't produce a half decent ranji pacer after all these years ,they have to bring in warrier from kerela.They need to get these academies where there is talent ,maybe then there could be some progress.

 

MRF pace foundation is still in India. Bowlers from other states have access to it.  Srinath, Sreesanth, RP singh, Irfan, Zak, Mcgath, Mitch Johnson, Brett Lee all trained here. It was not established in the interest of one state. You have to go through trial just like you write JEE to get admitted to IIT. There is no discrimination, there is no quota there.

[Need4Speed]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ind-a-vs-nz-a-india-a-takeaways-umran-malik-needs-work-but-rajat-patidar-and-saurabh-kumar-look-the-part-1335496
 

They know Umran is not ready yet and needs grooming..seems he is in the radar for now.

I am not sure with what speeds he bowled in the A matches..dont need more lower 140s..

Even though Patidar is a late bloomer..I am happy for him..could join the party later like Mike Hussey.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Need4Speed

[Mosher]

2 hours ago, Need4Speed said:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/ind-a-vs-nz-a-india-a-takeaways-umran-malik-needs-work-but-rajat-patidar-and-saurabh-kumar-look-the-part-1335496
 

They know Umran is not ready yet and needs grooming..seems he is in the radar for now.

I am not sure with what speeds he bowled in the A matches..dont need more lower 140s..

Even though Patidar is a late bloomer..I am happy for him..could join the party later like Mike Hussey.

 

"Everybody knows he is not a ready cricketer," Sitanshu Kotak, the India A coach, said of Umran. "He is here for us to help him develop and get better with the red ball. He is part of the one-day series also. From four overs to ten overs, we'll see what difference there is. Just by playing Ranji Trophy, he won't be groomed as well as that support he gets here."

Good to see that they have their expectations in check and the communication is clear that Umran is very much a work in progress. He needs all the matches he can get and these A team matches are for player development especially for those players who are picked on potential. Just needs a proper fast bowling coach to work with him on his stock delivery and help him achieve decent acccuracy. Umran is a special talent and bit of movement at his pace will be lethal.