Waqar Younis blames the mindset of India when it comes to pace

[Mesky99]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Waqar at his peak was pacier than Srinath. You don't need speed guns for it. Stress fracture robbed some of his speed.Some people here turn 1980s(Holdings ,Roberts) WI bowlers also into medium pacers and those same people turn Ajit Agarkar and Srinath in 150 k bowlers.

 

No need to defend speed of Waqar.

No body has ever claimed agarkar to be a 150kph bowler, there was a period from 2000-02 when he was quite consistently hitting 138-145kph, srinath was a genuine quick bowler even after injury and quicker than waqar most of his career, Fact.

 

[the don]

47 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Tbh, I don't think he was fast in 96. Yes was pretty fast in early 90s. He wasn't fast even in 96 world cup.

He had lost pace but 152.6 kph at the oval vs england in a test match im 96 is pretty fast

150 kph in test matches in those days was something else.

[the don]

32 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Can you show me the evidence ?
Zahid can clock 264 kph, that's not the discussion here.
Point here is if in the same website, at one part Srinath's pace is mentioned 156 and Waqar's 153, why we're ignoring one and including other. Unless we have any other evidence, this discussion won't go anywhere.

Secondly, the speed guns before 1996-1997 were sparingy used.....hence there is credibility over the standards...and when speed guns were used commonly, Srinath beat Waqar for pace in 2 tournaments 1999 ODI WC and 2003 ODI WC.

Waqar bowling 150 kph in southafrica tri series is actually available on video. I took a screengrab long ago. 
 

The image keeps exceeding the size limit so ill just upload and share link

https://ibb.co/p0yF2F1

[the don]

Waqar from that tri series in 93:

https://ibb.co/p0yF2F1

[rkt.india]

13 minutes ago, the don said:

He had lost pace but 152.6 kph at the oval vs england in a test match im 96 is pretty fast

150 kph in test matches in those days was something else.

I meant that maybe an error

[singhvivek141]

19 minutes ago, the don said:

Waqar bowling 150 kph in southafrica tri series is actually available on video. I took a screengrab long ago. 
 

The image keeps exceeding the size limit so ill just upload and share link

https://ibb.co/p0yF2F1

Thanks, is this from 1993 series ?
So Waqar's captured top speed is 150kph (not sure if it's exact 150 or rounded off).
Srinath's is 149.6...I'm excluding the 153kph and 156kph both as they're measured in a way which we can't confirm for sure.

Edited November 15, 2022 by singhvivek141

[the don]

21 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Thanks, is this from 1993 series ?
So Waqar's captured top speed is 150kph (not sure if it's exact 150 or rounded off).
Srinath's is 149.6...I'm excluding the 153kph and 156kph both as they're measured in a way which we can't confirm for sure.

No 153 is his actual captured top speed. Will try and see if i can find it on video when i have time, it was an entertaining series and PTV showed it so will surely have footage somewhere when i get some time.

Edited November 15, 2022 by the don

[Vilander]

On 11/14/2022 at 8:10 AM, putrevus said:

In 2003 Akram and Younis were on last legs. So bowling faster than them then is no great achievement.

 

Akram and Younis at their peak were better faster and more scarier than Srinath ever was at any point in his career .They both are ATG fast bowlers unlike Srinath.

 

Srinath bowled faster ethan every other bowler baring Akthar in a world cup. That's a fact. 

[Mesky99]

6 hours ago, the don said:

Yes , here is Indias favourite son Tendulkar calling him easily the fastest bowler of that generation along with Devon mlcolm. Sachin even wrote that he had never faced anywhere near that sort of pace in domestics before facing waqar in Pakistan and here we have clown like @Mesky99 claiming that Salil freaking Ankola was faster. Lmao., Total insult to pace bowling fans.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/sachin-tendulkar-waqar-s-bouncer-and-playing-through-pain-defined-me-1229445%3Fplatform%3Damp

Ankola was a quick, strongly built hit the deck bowler, injuries held his career back, just that unlike Pakistani fans we don't go hyping bowlers and over exaggerating some of our pacers who were either injury prone or just unlucky not to get their opportunities hence you don't here much about ta Sekhar, salgaonkar and ankola. Watch ankola bouncing your batsmen out on a dead Karachi wicket. 

 

[Sgattick10]

6 hours ago, the don said:

Yes , here is Indias favourite son Tendulkar calling him easily the fastest bowler of that generation along with Devon mlcolm. Sachin even wrote that he had never faced anywhere near that sort of pace in domestics before facing waqar in Pakistan and here we have clown like @Mesky99 claiming that Salil freaking Ankola was faster. Lmao., Total insult to pace bowling fans.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espncricinfo.com/story/sachin-tendulkar-waqar-s-bouncer-and-playing-through-pain-defined-me-1229445%3Fplatform%3Damp

I remember an old interview where Sachin said Brett Schultz was the fastest bowler he ever faced, way quicker then Donald.. Sometimes it's more then the speed guns some bowlers hurry the batsman more then others irrespective of pace 

[adithya7]

I think Waqar's peak was short lived. May be from 91 to 93.  After that, he didn't look that threatening. He always pitched it up and leaked a lot of runs. One thing I noticed was that he hardly bowled bouncers. Not sure why.  Anyways, in terms of bowling action , he was such a nice fast bowler to watch. Even the run up was so smooth. Interestingly, I used to copy both Waqar and Srinath bowling action. With Waqar's action, I found a good rhythm.  But there wasn't a lot of pace. Also, I ended up bowling way too short outside the off-stump. With Srinath's action, I could generate a lot of pace but not much swing.  Actually I got a lot of swing with Aaqib Javed's action (very smooth action too). Of course this doesn't mean anything. Just saying.

Srinath in this video (Athurton) looked seriously quick. I am not sure if its indeed quick or it looks quick due to the way batsman played it.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4WhHWuJlvw 

[Vijy]

21 hours ago, Majestic said:

Srinath bowled express fast at its peak but he didn't bowled right length. He would not pitch it up to the batsman enough to make the ball talk. This is the reason why he ended up with a relatively poor returns outside subcontinent.

 

One of the biggest reasons why India won a total sum of zero tests outside subcontinent in 1990s. To win overseas, you look at your fast bowlers and expect them to deliver which didn't happened for India in 1990s.

 

Zaheer Khan delivered more between 2007-2011 than Srinath did. His stats are worse because in subcontinent,pitches were flatter while in 90s, a lot of Indian wickets were turners so as a fast bowler, you can get away with figures of 1-20 on turning wickets.

 

 

correct, with more guidance and also improving his temperament, he could have done much better

[Nikhil_cric]

Waqar was genuinely quick in the early 90's . No doubt about it. And he was fairly sharp even in short spells even later in his career.

 

Clocked 144.5 kph in Australia in 99/00 season and even clocked 142/143 in the 2003 World Cup. 

 

He could not maintain speeds in the 98-03 period though. Used to trundle in latter half of series especially in 2nd, 3rd spells etc 

[Vijy]

10 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Waqar was genuinely quick in the early 90's . No doubt about it. And he was fairly sharp even in short spells even later in his career.

 

Clocked 144.5 kph in Australia in 99/00 season and even clocked 142/143 in the 2003 World Cup. 

 

He could not maintain speeds in the 98-03 period though. Used to trundle in latter half of series especially in 2nd, 3rd spells etc 

ran out of gas very fast unfortunately thanks to poor fitness

[putrevus]

On 11/15/2022 at 5:07 AM, singhvivek141 said:

Again nothing but a hyperbole, if Waqar lost his pace due to stress facture, so does Srinath due to his rotator cuff injury on his shoulders.
Judge everyone on same parameter instead of weighing bias against one.

No one calls Holdings or Roberts as 130k bowlers, we don't know their accurate pace but they were fast...so was Malcolm Marshall, Lillee and Jeff Thompson. Agarkar was a fast medium with pace in 135-140 range with upper pace at 144 (like Hardik Pandya)...he wasn't a 150kph bowler but Srinath was.

People say what they have seen, no one will call Prabhakar or Venkatesh Prasad as a 140k bowler...they were early 120's to early 130's.

Why are people fixated on Srinath bowling faster than Waqar. Even if he was bowling faster than Waqar , he was not fast bowler in quality like Waqar. It took a long time for Srinath to become a peoper fast bowler and then he had rotator cuff injury. Waqar is all time great fast bowler and Srinath is not even a good fast bowler by world standard.

 

If Holding and Roberts were fast then all Indian fast bowlers except Bumrah would be just medium pace, 

 

Speed is very important but there are other things to fast bowling. too many people here are fixated on only speed.

[Vilander]

On 11/15/2022 at 6:58 AM, the don said:

Waqar bowling 150 kph in southafrica tri series is actually available on video. I took a screengrab long ago. 
 

The image keeps exceeding the size limit so ill just upload and share link

https://ibb.co/p0yF2F1

Finally you got it congrats. 

[singhvivek141]

6 hours ago, putrevus said:

Why are people fixated on Srinath bowling faster than Waqar. Even if he was bowling faster than Waqar , he was not fast bowler in quality like Waqar. It took a long time for Srinath to become a peoper fast bowler and then he had rotator cuff injury. Waqar is all time great fast bowler and Srinath is not even a good fast bowler by world standard.

 

If Holding and Roberts were fast then all Indian fast bowlers except Bumrah would be just medium pace, 

 

Speed is very important but there are other things to fast bowling. too many people here are fixated on only speed.

We're trying to figure out pace, not who's is quality. Srinath wasn't typical swing bowler but more of a hit the deck back of length bowler. Unfortunately he didn't have luxury of bowling alongside new ball magicians like Wasim or Imran, he had Venkatesh Prasad, Manoj Prabhakar with whom he has to share the load.

Srinath's stats were dented a lot due to this factor...else his average would have atleast 2 points lower due to that.

 

But there is no denying that Srinath was the first proper genuine fast bowler and his presence was a major factor in success of Zak and Nehra during their early days when they were not only quick but accurate and amongst wickets.

Edited November 17, 2022 by singhvivek141

[Mesky99]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:41 PM, putrevus said:

Why are people fixated on Srinath bowling faster than Waqar. Even if he was bowling faster than Waqar , he was not fast bowler in quality like Waqar. It took a long time for Srinath to become a peoper fast bowler and then he had rotator cuff injury. Waqar is all time great fast bowler and Srinath is not even a good fast bowler by world standard.

 

If Holding and Roberts were fast then all Indian fast bowlers except Bumrah would be just medium pace, 

 

Speed is very important but there are other things to fast bowling. too many people here are fixated on only speed.

Srinath not a good fast bowler by international standards? Really? 550 wickets in 11 years career span is not good enough? Guys like Azhar Mahmood, aqib Javed are considered legends in Pakistan

[Bublu Bhuyan]

Got lots of respect and admiration for Srinath. But will have to admit that he was a mediocre fast bowler by world standards. His average of 30 odd says everything.

[Bublu Bhuyan]

On 11/17/2022 at 1:56 AM, Vijy said:

ran out of gas very fast unfortunately thanks to poor fitness

Not poor fitness, but age fudging. He himself confessed that was around 4 years older than his official age. So he was basically around 23 when he made his debut in 1989.