Thank you Bangladesh

[vice]

22 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

The only way that the Indian team finally makes changes in tactics and/or selection, is when it is forced to do so - either due to injury, or due to 'major' losses.  It took an unexpected loss in the 2017 CT final, to finally get the Indian team to wake up and recognize that wrist spinners were the way to go in ODI cricket.  No matter that Ash and Jaddu were putting up years and years of middling to mediocre to bad performances - only when the team got slapped in the final did it finally usher in the era of "KulCha".   

 

These losses to NZ and to Bangladesh is the bitter medicine that the team is badly in need of.  A slap to the face and a wake up call ahead of the ODI WC. I have been repeatedly saying on this forum for the last 2 years that India is on track to be the first ODI WC host to fail to win the Trophy in almost 2 decades.  Maybe, just maybe, these losses will be the trigger to some long overdue changes that are needed in the team.

 

Dhawan's fate may have been finally sealed, making some room in the top order.  Unfortunately Shubman Gill isn't left handed, and neither is Prithvi Shaw - my dark horse contender for opening Indian batting in the home WC - Gill is in the Virat Kohli mould of consolidated risk management school of white ball batting, not the demolition man that's seriously needed in Indian white ball batting.  Now simply jettisoning Dhawan may not be enough - we need to ring in a bunch of changes to get the Indian train back on track.  

 

But imagine the situation if Indian team had managed to squeak out a win in either or both of these Bangladesh games - both games were extremely winnable for Ind - and if Mehdi does not bat out of his skin in either game, India would have escaped embarassment.

 

So a genuine, giant thank you to Mehdi and Bangladesh - thank you Bongaali bhai log, enjoy the sweet taste of victory.

 

Half of the matches in NZ were washed out. The rest one was tied, one NZ won and the other Ind won so that is not going to roll any heads.  Also, that team was with some newbies.  So NZ series isn't going to raise any flags.

 

This Bangladesh series is just 3 ODIs.  India tried new pacers in Umran, Sen, Siraj, Chahar.  Thakur is there as bowling who can bat a bit to lengthen the batting. Both matches, India let Bangladesh batsmen off the hook and the blame will go to the bowlers unable to close down the match.  From 6-69 to 271 and in the first match a last wicket stand of over 50 runs. So it's the bowlers who will come under scrutiny.

 

Only Dhawan is and will be under pressure. 

 

 

Ashwin and Jadeja are still looming around the team since that 2017 CT final.  Ashwin just played the t20 wc. Jadeja would have been there as well if not for injury.  Kuldeep is out of the picture

 

The home season starting in Jan will eventually etch out the wc squad

Edited December 9, 2022 by vice

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

The only changes that will be made is if we don't have a good 2023 World Cup.

Look if you want to take a cynical view then think back to 2019 ODI WC - we had peak Boomrah, close to peak Kulcha - and we didn't even make final in what was effectively a competition between 3-4 good teams.   And we lost the SF due to a middle order batting failure - a weakness that was wellknown and allowed to fester for 3 years - simply to pamper the top order and allow them the luxury to bat selfishly in the name of setting platforms.  Who was held accountable? Nobody.  People take solace in "making semi-final" in a sport where basically India finished 4th in a 4 horse race in spite of having one of its best ever bowling attacks in last 20 years.  We have always been a team that wins with par+ batting and par or sub-par bowling.  And in spite of having par+ bowling, we failed to make the final due to a known batting weakness -again not because we didn't have player resources, but because the lead up 3 years were wasted on ensuring that Kuptaan Wrogn and his 2 farmhouse friends keep racking up meaningless bilateral landmarks and none of the rising young batsmen were given the chance to establish themselves and get 15-20 ODI games under their belt.  Intentionally 30+ older has-beens who are not as "marketable" were chosen to keep things going - Kedar Jadhav, Dinesh Karthik, Rayudu - and shunted down the order to do the lower class work of high risk hitting.  Who was held accountable? Even today you have folks defending those selection policies.  

 

My point in this thread is simple - cynicism aside, at least these losses to Bangladesh create a possibility of change - if we had not lost, even that possibility wouldn't exist.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

My point in this thread is simple - cynicism aside, at least these losses to Bangladesh create a possibility of change - if we had not lost, even that possibility wouldn't exist.

Possibility of change is only after ultimate failure - exit from World Cup. I guarantee you everyone - Rohit Sharma, Kohli, Dravid, team management etc. - will all have the same thing to say, to back the players and keep playing them until the World Cup. Nothing will come out of this.

[Frustrated]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

And we lost the SF due to a middle order batting failure.

We had lost 3 wickets in the first 2 overs.  After that, it was literally impossible to successfully chase down 245.    It was obviously a top order failure.   Yes, middle order could hv done better if the TM had built a solid core by the time WC started.  Agree with that part and also agree with rest of your post.   But my point is ,even with a stable middle order it's really tough to chase down 240+ after being 3 down in first 2 overs.  

Edited December 9, 2022 by Frustrated

[sandeep]

19 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

We had lost 3 wickets in the first 2 overs.  After that, it was literally impossible to successfully chase down 245.    It was obviously a top order failure.   Yes, middle order could hv done better if the TM had built a solid core by the time WC started.  Agree with that part and also agree with rest of your post.   But my point is ,even with a stable middle order it's really tough to chase down 240+ after being 3 down in first 2 overs.  

 

Tbh, I DGAF about middle order top order - banjo this is an Indian team - you're telling me they can't chase down 240 in this day and age where 300 is par? Yes conditions were bowler friendly but in no way was that total anything more than par.  Its a batting failure - and let me clarify - I'm not upset that we lost - failures, losses are part of the game.  My problem is that we lost primarily due to a flaw in the team that was well known years ahead of time, and it was a flaw that we had the player resources available to address.  That's not a loss thats part of the game - thats a self-inflicted failure that the team was fine with carrying the risk for - because of lack of accountability and personal benefit of the "senior players" in charge.  This is what pisses me off.  

 

Anyway, water under the bridge and all that - but what has been irritating is that the team is walking similar paths and increasing probability for a similar outcome - and be the first host nation in 4 WCs to not win it.  Maybe, just maybe, these couple of losses against a 'weaker' team can be the trigger to make some sort of changes.  Sure we can be cynical and say "kuch nahi badlega".  Odds are  that it may not.  But at least the door is open, even if slightly.

[King6]

Before 2011 wc, we lost to zim in odis 

[Adorable Fan]

Nothing Changes .. Unadkat has been selected as replacement for Shami for Tests. This TM is hell bent on dragging Indian cricket back to 90's. Time to skip Indian cricket until clean up of the current management and team is done. 

[Frustrated]

57 minutes ago, King6 said:

Before 2011 wc, we lost to zim in odis 

That was Ind C team.   Led by Raina

[coffee_rules]

To OP

 

[express bowling]

13 hours ago, Adorable Fan said:

Nothing Changes .. Unadkat has been selected as replacement for Shami for Tests. This TM is hell bent on dragging Indian cricket back to 90's. Time to skip Indian cricket until clean up of the current management and team is done. 

 

 

Yeah !

 

Unadkat's selection proves that the changes we will see maybe even more regressive than past selections. 

 

Yes, the format is different but it's the same people taking decisions.

[rkt.india]

14 hours ago, Frustrated said:

That was Ind C team.   Led by Raina

Right now, we don't know what's our main team, A team, B team, C team. Sab khichdi bani hui hai.

[Frustrated]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:36 PM, sandeep said:

Dhawan's fate may have been finally sealed, making some room in the top order.   

[Vijy]

On 12/10/2022 at 12:48 PM, express bowling said:

 

 

Yeah !

 

Unadkat's selection proves that the changes we will see maybe even more regressive than past selections. 

 

Yes, the format is different but it's the same people taking decisions.

for sure, this reminds me of 80s selections... bunch of donkeys, or more like bunch of zone-obsessed monkeys drunk on power (or just plain drunk).