ravishingravi Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 25 minutes ago, Khota said: I am playing devil's advocate now. The other side of the story: Our Reply To Adani: Fraud Cannot Be Obfuscated By Nationalism Or A Bloated Response That Ignores Every Key Allegation We Raised So I am trying to see the other side. Because its important to hold big corporates accountable. But the more Hidenburg speaks, the more I see this as hit job. Where is primary evidence ? What exactly is the scam here ? Stock manipulation ? So, normally you would expect a respected report to provide clear primary evidence of how a particular was manipulated on a particular day. All in all I am beginning to think that this was just a shoot and scoot job. When there are absolute real issues with Adani group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Khota said: I am playing devil's advocate now. The other side of the story: Our Reply To Adani: Fraud Cannot Be Obfuscated By Nationalism Or A Bloated Response That Ignores Every Key Allegation We Raised Looks like a hit job by the way they have condescendingly used the word "Nationalism" ... BTW for the folks seriously interested in Adani's 413 page response , this is a summary randomGuy, nevada and ravishingravi 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 28 minutes ago, diga said: Looks like a hit job by the way they have condescendingly used the word "Nationalism" ... BTW for the folks seriously interested in Adani's 413 page response , this is a summary Excellent summary I must say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 all adani group stocks are overvalued , last 1 year they all went up way too high .. Abu Dhabi's IHC to invest $400 million in Adani Enterprises' FPO https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/companies-2/abu-dhabis-ihc-invests-400-million-in-adani-enterprises-fpo-9963381.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 5 hours ago, ravishingravi said: So I am trying to see the other side. Because its important to hold big corporates accountable. But the more Hidenburg speaks, the more I see this as hit job. Where is primary evidence ? What exactly is the scam here ? Stock manipulation ? So, normally you would expect a respected report to provide clear primary evidence of how a particular was manipulated on a particular day. All in all I am beginning to think that this was just a shoot and scoot job. When there are absolute real issues with Adani group. Like most I hope Hindenburg is wrong. But I am also skeptical. Adani taking refuge in Nationalism is not fair. Indian economy if follows the path of Atamnirbhar Bharat is heading towards 5T. Whether Adani is part of it or not it makes no difference. No one is pointing fingers at Ambanis or Tatas. We need to wait and watch. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 4 hours ago, diga said: Looks like a hit job by the way they have condescendingly used the word "Nationalism" ... BTW for the folks seriously interested in Adani's 413 page response , this is a summary 413 pages of fluff. Not one single point to dispute. If Hindenburg is wrong Ambanis can file a 100B dollar lawsuit and win. I doubt they will. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 10 hours ago, ravishingravi said: I am still trying to understand where is the scam I think its just that cost of borrowing has increased across the world and thats being exaggerated as risk. If Indian economy is to become $10 trillion economy in next decade then companies dealing in infra projects are not a risk at all. BTW law says, In US, Police shoots at you simply for not obeying after stopped for traffic violations, In India traffic Police guy is lucky to have a stick snd whistle. So no, laws of US are nether best nor can be applicable in every country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Khota said: 413 pages of fluff. Not one single point to dispute. If Hindenburg is wrong Ambanis can file a 100B dollar lawsuit and win. I doubt they will. No company follows laws which are not applicable to them. Following laws in compnies is mostly meeting legal documentary for say data protection and audit and so on. I think only banks are supposed to maintain obligatoru CRR, no one else need to di. Give Adanis 1-2 month and this whole bs would be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 6 hours ago, Under_Score said: Some of the replies on this topic suggest that some ICF members are more concerned that it must be the opposition hand in this Hindenburg research report. If the governing authorities in India had questioned Adani many years earlier, then there would be no need of any foreign company trying to expose the alleged Adani fraud. Since all the inside job of ED & CBI raids on opposition party members was the prime focus of the ruling party, the expose came from outside India. Thanks to Nathan Anderson for this.....Hopefully Indian authorities feel ashamed & start doing their job instead of becoming ruling party boot-lickers. Good post. I am concerned about millions of Indians who could have been potentially cheated if there was fraud. I am still hoping there was none. Indeed Govt. should hve devoted more resources to regulation rather than hit raid jobs on opposition. Vivek92 and Under_Score 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 3 hours ago, mishra said: No company follows laws which are not applicable to them. Following laws in compnies is mostly meeting legal documentary for say data protection and audit and so on. I think only banks are supposed to maintain obligatoru CRR, no one else need to di. Give Adanis 1-2 month and this whole bs would be forgotten. If it is BS yes it should be forgotten. But if it is the truth head needs to roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 17 hours ago, velu said: all adani group stocks are overvalued , last 1 year they all went up way too high .. Abu Dhabi's IHC to invest $400 million in Adani Enterprises' FPO https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/companies-2/abu-dhabis-ihc-invests-400-million-in-adani-enterprises-fpo-9963381.html FPO fully subscribed... think the game starts now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, diga said: FPO fully subscribed... think the game starts now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 If I am Adani I would be extremely worried. Hindenburg using forensic accounting to track things down and so far everywhere they have pointed fingers, fraud was uncovered. Hindenburg's Track Record Should Worry Adani I am struggling to link this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Adani raised the fpo value... Not much hindenberg can do now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khota Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 31 minutes ago, G_B_ said: Adani raised the fpo value... Not much hindenberg can do now.. You miss the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, G_B_ said: Adani raised the fpo value... Not much hindenberg can do now.. Yes, but worry for Adani still is lack of retail investors. Historically, the transition to deleveraging has always been tricky. For me, this does good for Adani and all the other big corporates going forward. They are no longer being judged on Indian laws. They can all prepare the governance requirements in advance. The correction in share prices was also absolutely needed. No way high PE ratios can be justified. In my view, Adani has not won the game. Its a draw with win for Indian markets. Fears of systemic crisis is atleast behind us for now. sandeep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 On 1/30/2023 at 5:53 AM, ravishingravi said: I am still trying to understand where is the scam blatant violation of securities law with stock washing, stock parking. I mean, an optimist spin on it could be that its just a firm taking advantage of questionable gray-zone financial engineering and leveraging for its benefit - something that other companies may also be guilty of, if they have the opportunity due to company size and jurisdictional weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, Khota said: If it is BS yes it should be forgotten. But if it is the truth head needs to roll. Search Participatory P Notes. No Gvmnt in India has so far shown to have balls to ban it. All the Indian companies including Ambani Adani, Tata, Birala, HDFC, ICICI you name it do it. But Adanis have been picked BTW, I was watching movie on Harshad Mehata. I thought a smarter person (Finance Minister) would have legalised or found middle ground to what Harshad did. After all, Its legal now what essentially he did. So there in lies clue Edited January 31, 2023 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Khota said: You miss the point. and the point is what again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, sandeep said: blatant violation of securities law with stock washing, stock parking. I mean, an optimist spin on it could be that its just a firm taking advantage of questionable gray-zone financial engineering and leveraging for its benefit - something that other companies may also be guilty of, if they have the opportunity due to company size and jurisdictional weaknesses. Well its not a violation if its not proven. I have seen many such funding and tax structuring. Yeah its not great intent. But it is within the framework. It is as much a scam as big tech not paying taxes in US. Its not right, but it is how companies work. Finding loopholes and safe space wherever they can. Not every corporate is Tata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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