Is the Indian team of 2023 World Cup their best bowling attack ever?

[Nikhil_cric]

11 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Im so out of the loop that i have no clue which ODI is this and who were the opponents .

 

Even if its a spinning wicket, we need in-form bowlers to exploit it.

 

3 in-form spinners on a turner can be a nightmare.

 

Maybe im wrong and they might consider 3 spinners for WC but most likely this is bilateral experimentation.

 

Yes Prasidh is a great choice with the lift he gets.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-in-india-2022-23-1348637/india-vs-australia-3rd-odi-1348658/full-scorecard

 

This one

[R!TTER]

Oh yes the duckathon by Surya Kumar 

[saneindian]

10 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-in-india-2022-23-1348637/india-vs-australia-3rd-odi-1348658/full-scorecard

 

This one

Any idea what happened in the 1st ODI of the series?

 

 

[saneindian]

On topic, bowling stats wise, yes this is our best ever bowling unit heading into a WC. The 2019 unit comes close due to what Kuldeep and Jadeja did in that 18 month period in 2017-19 but they had started to be predictable even before the WC.

[Nikhil_cric]

17 minutes ago, saneindian said:

Any idea what happened in the 1st ODI of the series?

 

 

Seamers = 7/87 . Spinners  = 3/94. Thank God we played 4 seamers there

[saneindian]

7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Seamers = 7/87 . Spinners  = 3/94. Thank God we played 4 seamers there

And in batting?

[Nikhil_cric]

1 minute ago, saneindian said:

And in batting?

I see. So, this is an argument you are trying to make for Jadeja.  He was 32 off 60 deliveries before adding 13 runs off 9 deliveries. So basically, even when he has seen off 60 deliveries he can only strike at 53.3 .  

 

This is not going to be the usual situation he walks in. As #7, he is expected to hit and up the scoring rate on most occasions. He cannot do that as evidenced in the Asia Cup when he could not capitalise on the platform set by Hardik and Ishan against Pakistan.

 

His strike in the Asia Cup was something like 47.  So it's not a question of playing acc. to situation. He does not have the abiity to score at a reasonable rate, let alone be the explosive hitter we need him to be at # 7.

 

His overall strike rate since 2021 in ODI's is also around 50 only. He should not be batting anywhere in the top 7 when even Bumrah, Shami and Thakur are out-hitting him.

 

So, he's clearly not the all-rounder we need at 7 to give us batting depth. 

 

Is he a wicket-taking bowler then?  

 

Since Jan, 2015, Jadeja vs top 6 sides (England, OZ, NZ, PAK, SA) has taken 28 wickets in 42 matches at an average of 64.78 . 

 

Let's filter that to matches played in India .  He has taken 13 wickets in 13 matches vs these sides since 2015 in India at an average of 43.84  and an economy of 4.87.  

 

So clearly not a wicket-taking bowler even in India and horrendous outside of India.  He's an average defensive spinner who can't hit currently.

 

The other issue is Shardul Thakur . He has his uses but like in that match against Australia and even against Nepal, he often cannot be trusted to bowl 10 overs.   

 

Our fans' and TM's priorities are confusing and illogical.   A bloke who comes in at 8 and can't be trusted to bowl 10 overs is often part of the first XI when he shouldn't be part of the squad even if you're not sure of 10 overs from him. But fans are more concerned with runs from 8-11 when one of them can't even be trusted to bowl!!! Amazing.

 

These guys also refuse to acknowledge the fact that both Shami and Bumrah can tonk the ball better than your #7 as shown in the Asia Cup. 

 

And then to cover Thakur's overs they will justify Jadeja's inclusion.

 

This circular reasoning and logic has to stop and is, frankly, laughable.

 

Your 8-11 has to give you 40 good overs every time before worrying about a few runs they may not give. (Shardul weakens this)

 

Your #7 has to be a hitter or someone who can give you another 10 good overs of wicket-taking threat or a genuine all-rounder.(Jadeja is none of these currently)

 

Your batting should have proper batsmen who can both build and counter-attack until #6 to get real batting depth.(Hardik weakens this as he is not a skilled batter to bat in a variety of conditions and has very specific weaknesses)

 

It's a pathetic combination which we use for so-called "balance". And every other side is much better balanced than us. 

 

All because the batters between them can't give us 4 overs per match.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[saneindian]

11 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I see. So, this is an argument you are trying to make for Jadeja.  He was 32 off 60 deliveries before adding 13 runs off 9 deliveries. So basically, even when he has seen off 60 deliveries he can only strike at 53.3 .  

 

This is not going to be the usual situation he walks in. As #7, he is expected to hit and up the scoring rate on most occasions. He cannot do that as evidenced in the Asia Cup when he could not capitalise on the platform set by Hardik and Ishan against Pakistan.

 

His strike in the Asia Cup was something like 47.  So it's not a question of playing acc. to situation. He does not have the abiity to score at a reasonable rate, let alone be the explosive hitter we need him to be at # 7.

 

His overall strike rate since 2021 in ODI's is also around 50 only. He should not be batting anywhere in the top 7 when even Bumrah, Shami and Thakur are out-hitting him.

 

So, he's clearly not the all-rounder we need at 7 to give us batting depth. 

 

Is he a wicket-taking bowler then?  

 

Since Jan, 2015, Jadeja vs top 6 sides (England, OZ, NZ, PAK, SA) has taken 28 wickets in 42 matches at an average of 64.78 . 

 

Let's filter that to matches played in India .  He has taken 13 wickets in 13 matches vs these sides since 2015 in India at an average of 43.84  and an economy of 4.87.  

 

So clearly not a wicket-taking bowler even in India and horrendous outside of India.  He's an average defensive spinner who can't hit currently.

 

The other issue is Shardul Thakur . He has his uses but like in that match against Australia and even against Nepal, he often cannot be trusted to bowl 10 overs.   

 

Our fans' and TM's priorities are confusing and illogical.   A bloke who comes in at 8 and can't be trusted to bowl 10 overs is often part of the first XI when he shouldn't be part of the squad even if you're not sure of 10 overs from him. But fans are more concerned with runs from 8-11 when one of them can't even be trusted to bowl!!! Amazing.

 

These guys also refuse to acknowledge the fact that both Shami and Bumrah can tonk the ball better than your #7 as shown in the Asia Cup. 

 

And then to cover Thakur's overs they will justify Jadeja's inclusion.

 

This circular reasoning and logic has to stop and is, frankly, laughable.

 

Your 8-11 has to give you 40 good overs every time before worrying about a few runs they may not give. (Shardul weakens this)

 

Your #7 has to be a hitter or someone who can give you another 10 good overs of wicket-taking threat or a genuine all-rounder.(Jadeja is none of these currently)

 

Your batting should have proper batsmen who can both build and counter-attack until #6 to get real batting depth.(Hardik weakens this as he is not a skilled batter to bat in a variety of conditions and has very specific weaknesses)

 

It's a pathetic combination which we use for so-called "balance". And every other side is much better balanced than us. 

 

All because the batters between them can't give us 4 overs per match.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Such long rants come out when agendas get busted. Thank you for proving my point.

 

I see from posts that your anguish has gone up by a few notches after our Asia Cup win. Must be hurting badly.

[Nikhil_cric]

6 minutes ago, saneindian said:

Such long rants come out when agendas get busted. Thank you for proving my point.

 

I see from posts that your anguish has gone up by a few notches after our Asia Cup win. Must be hurting badly.

 

You don't have a point in the first place. You can't prove something that doesn't exist.

 

 

[sensible-indian]

13 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/australia-in-india-2022-23-1348637/india-vs-australia-3rd-odi-1348658/full-scorecard

 

This one

Thanks.

 

From what I can see from the scorecard, it was Aus spinners that won them that game.

 

- Starc went wicketless at 7 rpo.

- Stoinis was a part timer.

- Sean picked up a wicket.

 

For India, it was our pacers who bowled economically and picked wickets (Pandya took top order wickets and Siraj mopped up the tail).

 

But another day, they could have got carted or gone wicketless if the pitch was very spin friendly.

 

----

 

Aus spinners - 10 overs - 80 runs - 6 wickets

 

Indian spinners - 28 overs - 150 runs - 5 wickets

 

----

 

We need a balanced attack with bowlers in form.

 

Not saying we need 3 spinners but if we pick 2...they better be good who can help us.

[vvvslaxman]

[Vijy]

if our best 4 play, it is a potent attack of: shami/prasidh, siraj, bumrah, kuldeep and ably aided by pandu.

[Majestic]

Proving time and again, this attack is not just India's best ever but arguably up there with the greatest ODI bowling attacks.

 

Bumrah

Shami

Siraj

Kuldeep

Jadeja

Hardik

[nitinbwj]

A resounding YES

BSS 

[R!TTER]

35 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Proving time and again, this attack is not just India's best ever but arguably up there with the greatest ODI bowling attacks.

At this stage in the WC no one's demolished teams as quickly as us

[tapandrun]

 

[Mariyam]

OP was spot on.

 

Best bowling attack ever.

 

Shami has become India's top wicket taker in just 3 world cup games.

[rish]

Anybody can bowl good balls. But they do it consistently.

 

 

[prudent_kreeda]

By far the best Indian one day attack till today. No arguemnts ! 

[Sgattick10]

Best bowling attack in the world