In the hindsight, did Kishan get a raw deal when SKY was selected ahead of him?

[Trichromatic]

Kishan is a limited batsman, but he showed that he can handle pressure v Pakistan in Asia cup. He showed he can bat long when he scored double century even if it was v BD.

 

Multiple arguments. Any one or more of these may be factor.

1. Team management was too optimistic about SKY's abilities, but didn't have confidence.

2. Team management simply made mistake by planning a batsman just for last 5 overs.

3. Team management gave importance to a Mumbai player over a Bihari player which isn't surprising in Indian cricket.

4. Ishan Kishan is simply not good enough in TM's eyes.

5. Ishan Kishan isn't fit for finisher role, he is more of top order batsman.

[rangeelaraja]

16 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Kishan is a limited batsman, but he showed that he can handle pressure v Pakistan in Asia cup. He showed he can bat long when he scored double century even if it was v BD.

 

Multiple arguments. Any one or more of these may be factor.

1. Team management was too optimistic about SKY's abilities, but didn't have confidence.

2. Team management simply made mistake by planning a batsman just for last 5 overs.

3. Team management gave importance to a Mumbai player over a Bihari player which isn't surprising in Indian cricket.

4. Ishan Kishan wasn't good enough in TM's eyes.

 

 

It is not the team management but captain Rohit Sharma preferring a fellow Mumbai Indian player, fellow Mumbaikar.

 

SKY is the biggest culprit of the finals loss.  He had the stage set up for him for a 40 ball 80 which would have taken us to a 320+ total.

He needed to play streetsmart cricket Rotating strike with tail-enders and counter attacking simultaneously. WTF has this brainless slogger learned from so much in international cricket and IPL ?

 

This is the difference between a hit or miss player like Maxwell - who picked up Australia from a certain defeat and a IPL money bloated pig like SKY.

 

SKY had enough international exposure and exposure to these kinds of bowlers and atmosphere.

 

Inspite being a NRI Mumbaikar, I can say with 100 % certitude that North Indian / Delhiites players have a much much greater killer instinct and mental fortitude to win tough games / clutch situations  ---  on the contrary  Mumbaikars inspite their so called batting legacy are the biggest phattus when it comes to clutch games.

 

I challenge anybody here on ICF to name even a single Mumbai batsmen ( for all of the legacy of Mumbai batting ) ...who has won tough games from clutch situations.  This is unmissable. There is NONE. This may sound like a highly parochial and provocative post - FFS, I am a Mumbaikar and willing to be challenged here with facts 

 

And here are the  clutch players North India has produced  - just in recent times:

 

1. Yuvi
2. Gambhir
3. Dhoni
4. Sehwag (  he demoralized the life out of the opposition in the first couple of overs )
5. Raina
6. Pant

 

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by rangeelaraja

[Insidious]

10 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Kishan is a limited batsman, but he showed that he can handle pressure v Pakistan in Asia cup. He showed he can bat long when he scored double century even if it was v BD.

 

Multiple arguments. Any one or more of these may be factor.

1. Team management was too optimistic about SKY's abilities, but didn't have confidence.

2. Team management simply made mistake by planning a batsman just for last 5 overs.

3. Team management gave importance to a Mumbai player over a Bihari player which isn't surprising in Indian cricket.

4. Ishan Kishan is simply not good enough in TM's eyes.

5. Ishan Kishan isn't fit for finisher role, he is more of top order batsman.

Sky also played a good innings against England in a similar sluggish surface in kanpur. It is important in a sluggish surface that someone from the Top order should carry on till the end. And that someone is - Rohit sharma or Virat Kohli since both have experience and expertise in batting in sluggish pitch/conditions. Others batsman are just flat track bullies.

 

[Number]

5 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

It is not the team management but captain Rohit Sharma preferring a fellow Mumbai Indian player, fellow Mumbaikar.

 

SKY is the biggest culprit of the finals loss.  He had the stage set up for him for a 40 ball 80 which would have taken us to a 320+ total.

He needed to play streetsmart cricket Rotating strike with tail-enders and counter attacking simultaneously. WTF has this brainless slogger learned from so much in international cricket and IPL ?

 

This is the difference between a hit or miss player like Maxwell - who picked up Australia from a certain defeat and a IPL money bloated pig like SKY.

 

SKY had enough international exposure and exposure to these kinds of bowlers and atmosphere.

 

Inspite being a NRI Mumbaikar, I can say with 100 % certitude that North Indian / Delhiites players have a much much greater killer instinct and mental fortitude to win tough games / clutch situations  ---  on the contrary  Mumbaikars inspite their so called batting legacy are the biggest phattus when it comes to clutch games.

 

I challenge anybody here on ICF to name even a single Mumbai batsmen ( for all of the legacy of Mumbai batting ) ...who has won tough games from clutch situations.  This is unmissable. There is NONE. This may sound like a post parochial post - FFS, I am a Mumbaikar and willing to be challenged here with facts 

 

And here are the  clutch player North India has produced  - just in recent times:

 

1. Yuvi
2. Gambhir
3. Dhoni
4. Sehwag (  he demoralized the life out of the opposition in the first couple of overs )
5. Raina
6. Pant

 

 

Even Kohli is as clutch as it comes. Winning that game against Pakistan T20 WC, Mohali knock 2016 and has stood up so many times in chases.

I hope going forward mental strength is a parameter that gets factored into selection.

Pandya is another one who doesn't get under pressure, in fact relishes it.

SKY as good as he is, has totally choked whenever he was put under pressure. It can be a skill issue as well.

 

[Trichromatic]

9 minutes ago, Insidious said:

Sky also played a good innings against England in a similar sluggish surface in kanpur. It is important in a sluggish surface that someone from the Top order should carry on till the end. And that someone is - Rohit sharma or Virat Kohli since both have experience and expertise in batting in sluggish pitch/conditions. Others batsman are just flat track bullies.

 

 

Give such a long rope to any batsman, anyone will come up with 40 ball 45 runs once.

[Nikhil_cric]

Kishan wouldnt have done jack on a slow pitch either.  That's the issue. Also, you can only get something out of him in the top order. SKy selection in the squad itself was the issue.

[Texan]

Kishan in not a MO batsman. He averages 27 at SR of 76 in MO. We have seen him struggle massively for any kind of timing. This happens occasionally while opening, but even more so when batting in MO. After Pandya injury, unfortunately, we were stuck with SKY with the hope that he will show up one day. 

[tweaker]

Team management should have given enough opportunity to Rinku Singh before the world cup matches.If team management didn't have faith on Kishan ,they wasted the spot and could had Tilak or Rinku.in the place.

[Trichromatic]

15 minutes ago, Texan said:

Kishan in not a MO batsman. He averages 27 at SR of 76 in MO. We have seen him struggle massively for any kind of timing. This happens occasionally while opening, but even more so when batting in MO. After Pandya injury, unfortunately, we were stuck with SKY with the hope that he will show up one day. 

 

SKY averages 20 this year.

 

He scored 82 when India were 4 down v Pakistan. He at least had some performance in his favor.

 

That's why I said he is limited batsman. But were SKY and Kishan at similar level in terms of ability and performance? Has SKY done enough in past to be selected above Kishan.

[Texan]

Just now, Trichromatic said:

 

SKY averages 20 this year.

Yes, but Kishan is no good either. Besides, Kishan has never batted at 6 or below in any ODI. Our top 5 were already all set. There was no room for Kishan. 

[Texan]

8 minutes ago, tweaker said:

Team management should have given enough opportunity to Rinku Singh before the world cup matches.If team management didn't have faith on Kishan ,they wasted the spot and could had Tilak or Rinku.in the place.

Yes, Rinku and Tilak should have been given chances and the better player of the two picked for the squad instead of SKY. 

 

I wouldn't consider Kishan's spot wasted. He was the backup opener as well as backup keeper. He was not picked for MO anyway. 

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

Yes. What has SKY done to warrant a place in the team. Any innings of significance in ODI

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

47 minutes ago, Insidious said:

Sky also played a good innings against England in a similar sluggish surface in kanpur. It is important in a sluggish surface that someone from the Top order should carry on till the end. And that someone is - Rohit sharma or Virat Kohli since both have experience and expertise in batting in sluggish pitch/conditions. Others batsman are just flat track bullies.

 

yeh sab Tendulkar ka kiya dhara hai.

 

Top 3 should not be expected to bat deep and long on a sluggish surface. Its your middle order which should bat deep. Top 3 should attack with risk because that is when the ball is easy to hit.

[Trichromatic]

2 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

yeh sab Tendulkar ka kiya dhara hai.

 

Top 3 should not be expected to bat deep and long on a sluggish surface. Its your middle order which should bat deep. Top 3 should attack with risk because that is when the ball is easy to hit.

 

Yes, normally teams try to consolidate till 30 overs and try to double that score in remaining 20 overs.

 

Best to be done on slow surface is score maximum in 20 overs and then double it in remaining 30 overs. 135-145 in first 20 and then 140-150 in remaining 30.

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

Kishan is a limited batsman, but he showed that he can handle pressure v Pakistan in Asia cup. He showed he can bat long when he scored double century even if it was v BD.

 

Multiple arguments. Any one or more of these may be factor.

1. Team management was too optimistic about SKY's abilities, but didn't have confidence.

2. Team management simply made mistake by planning a batsman just for last 5 overs.

3. Team management gave importance to a Mumbai player over a Bihari player which isn't surprising in Indian cricket.

4. Ishan Kishan is simply not good enough in TM's eyes.

5. Ishan Kishan isn't fit for finisher role, he is more of top order batsman.

This is most accurate IMO, despite scoring well in MO vs Pakistan Kishan isn't seen as a Middle order batter by mgmt, he was more like a reserve opener for Gill/Rohit and backup for Rahul as keeper. While SKY's cameos at MO gave them hint that he is someone who can hit big in the slog overs, which Kishan can't do.

 

Issue is even SKY isn't a no 6,7 batter...we have done the same mistake with him which we did in past with DK & Deepak Hooda. Trying to convert a no 3/4 batter to a finisher.

Edited November 21, 2023 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

yeh sab Tendulkar ka kiya dhara hai.

 

Top 3 should not be expected to bat deep and long on a sluggish surface. Its your middle order which should bat deep. Top 3 should attack with risk because that is when the ball is easy to hit.

To an extent yes, but Tendulkar was batting mostly with the likes of Robin Singh, Azhar & Jadeja in MO...all of them were 30-40 run batters. Then we also had Prabhakar & Mongia in lower order who can't even cross 30 yard circle no matter how hard they try to hit. There was a time when likes of Srinath & Kumble even batted at 7.

 

Sachin started batting quickly when Sourav, Dravid joined him. In the independence cup vs Pakistan where we were chasing 315...it was Sachin who striked big at the top scoring 41(26) which allowed Ganguly & Robin Singh to take their time.

Edited November 21, 2023 by singhvivek141

[R!TTER]

1 hour ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

yeh sab Tendulkar ka kiya dhara hai.

Oh so it's on him now that these *ing chokers all lost their minds batting first on a slow pitch?

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

15 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Oh so it's on him now that these *ing chokers all lost their minds batting first on a slow pitch?

If that is what you interpreted from what I wrote, you need some help

[rkt.india]

Even Sanju Samson

[Sooda]

3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

This is most accurate IMO, despite scoring well in MO vs Pakistan Kishan isn't seen as a Middle order batter by mgmt, he was more like a reserve opener for Gill/Rohit and backup for Rahul as keeper. While SKY's cameos at MO gave them hint that he is someone who can hit big in the slog overs, which Kishan can't do.

 

Issue is even SKY isn't a no 6,7 batter...we have done the same mistake with him which we did in past with DK & Deepak Hooda. Trying to convert a no 3/4 batter to a finisher.

 

He's a no 3 in T20s... he can not be a no3 in ODIs... Root, WIlliamson, Kohli are ODI no 3s its a role that requires brisk accumulation and an ability to "anchor"

If SKY is to feature in ODIs it has to be at 6 as a finisher. I can see TM want to give him a long run there, certainly has the ability for it. 

And youre right Kishan is not a middle or lower middle order bat.