How Tom Hartley destroyed India and won England the Test match ( A real Bazball secret)

[Nikhil_cric]

Just like how the real Bazball secret in Pakistan was reverse swing which won England the Test series , this was once again about superior bowling and fielding tactics from England. The speed data of both sets of spinners shows the real difference

 

 

India(1st innings, 2nd innings)

 

Ashwin - ( 87.1. 88.2)

Jadeja - (93.8, 92.1)

Axar - (92.6, 92.2)

 

England (1st innings, 2nd innings)

 

Rehan - (84.7, 84.4)

Root - (89.6, 89.3)

Leach - (86.5, 87.7)

Hartley - (89.5, 84.8)

 

 

Look at that change in Hartley's speeds in the 2nd innings. He dropped his pace by 5 kph on average and adjusted to the slowing pitch perfectly. This, despite being on debut whereas none of our highly experienced spin trio bothered to slow down and look for mishits.  

 

Credits for data - Cricket.com (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7LQl6HWcME)

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 minute ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Just like how the real Bazball secret in Pakistan was reverse swing which won England the Test series , this was once again about superior bowling and fielding tactics from England. The speed data of both sets of spinners shows the real difference

 

 

India(1st innings, 2nd innings)

 

Ashwin - ( 87.1. 88.2)

Jadeja - (93.8, 92.1)

Axar - (92.6, 92.2)

 

England (1st innings, 2nd innings)

 

Rehan - (84.7, 84.4)

Root - (89.6, 89.3)

Leach - (86.5, 87.7)

Hartley - (89.5, 84.8)

 

 

Look at that change in Hartley's speeds in the 2nd innings. He dropped his pace by 5 kph on average and adjusted to the slowing pitch perfectly. This, despite being on debut whereas none of our highly experienced spin trio bothered to slow down and look for mishits.  

 

Credits for data - Cricket.com (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7LQl6HWcME)

 

 

The same guy Hartley (IIRC) said before the match that, in India, you just dart it in and let the pitch do its thing, don't worry about flight etc. And then he adapted. Grudging kudos.

[sensible-indian]

In hindsight, our spinners bowled too fast i guess.

 

Sad day but we will learn from this.

 

On the beight side, we didnt escape and now the spotlight is on our batsmen.

 

[Frustrated]

Yep.   Hartley slowed down his pace considerably in the 2nd inning.  And started bowling little wider off the stumps as well.  It was evident.   His action is quite similar to Santner.  

[Number]

A Left hander had to put him off his length. 

Yashaswi, Axar and Jaddu couldn't do that.

[Frustrated]

19 minutes ago, Number said:

A Left hander had to put him off his length. 

Yashaswi, Axar and Jaddu couldn't do that.

I know it's too early.  But slowly I m getting a feeling Jaiswal has got the choking DNA. Today was not the only instance where he looked timid and subdued when it mattered the most.  During the Super over of the 3rd T20 vs Afghan, he failed to connect with the bat twice in the same over against a no name pacer.   Rohit at the other end was smashing every ball out of the park.   Hope to be proven wrong though in the near future.   (I had top level expectation from Jaiswal)

Edited January 28, 2024 by Frustrated

[Lone Wolf]

Tom Hartley exposed Indian spinning bozos....  He said prior to the game on Wisden on Indian doctored pitches..  You don't need flight or guile. ...just fire it an & pitch will do it.. And he will match Indian spinners. 

I found it bollocks but he was spot on. 

 

Left arm spin is key to win in India. 

 

Steve o Keefe,  Kuhnemann,  And now Hartley. 

Even Elgar ran through Indians once lol. 

 

Don't play sweeps or reverse sweeps & continue to get out skilled. 

[sensible-indian]

7 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Tom Hartley exposed Indian spinning bozos....  He said prior to the game on Wisden on Indian doctored pitches..  You don't need flight or guile. ...just fire it an & pitch will do it.. And he will match Indian spinners. 

I found it bollocks but he was spot on. 

 

Left arm spin is key to win in India. 

 

Steve o Keefe,  Kuhnemann,  And now Hartley. 

Even Elgar ran through Indians once lol. 

 

Don't play sweeps or reverse sweeps & continue to get out skilled. 

 

He didn't follow his own advice. Smart lad.

 

We know what happened to all those left armers after that first game.

[Nikhil_cric]

8 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Tom Hartley exposed Indian spinning bozos....  He said prior to the game on Wisden on Indian doctored pitches..  You don't need flight or guile. ...just fire it an & pitch will do it.. And he will match Indian spinners. 

I found it bollocks but he was spot on. 

 

Left arm spin is key to win in India. 

 

Steve o Keefe,  Kuhnemann,  And now Hartley. 

Even Elgar ran through Indians once lol. 

 

Don't play sweeps or reverse sweeps & continue to get out skilled. 

He was talking about our designer pitches where firing it in at 88 + kph is the way to go. 

 

On this track , he(with likely support from England's backroom analysts) was smart and brave enough to slow it up and flight it a bit more 

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, sensible-indian said:

 

He didn't follow his own advice. Smart lad.

 

We know what happened to all those left armers after that first game.

I do know what happened to Left armers...  India got scared of Kuhnemann & prepared a flat docile track to salvage pride...  And guess what next test in India and another left arm spinner rolled over India. 

Shakib in Bangladesh too from recent memory. 

 

Without sweep & reverse sweeps...  Right handers have little chance to survive on these pitches. 

These Indian players don't even use their feet lol. 

[Kothili]

Random debutant destroys pathetic India. 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

He was talking about our designer pitches where firing it in at 88 + kph is the way to go. 

 

On this track , he(with likely support from England's backroom analysts) was smart and brave enough to slow it up and flight it a bit more 

 

 

Slow floaty spin wouldn't have worked if Indians knew how to employ sweep effectively. 

Someone like Kusal Mendis would have won India the game..  Heck even Samarawickrama. 

Stokes & have done their homework & can expose Indian domestic cricket in the process. 

 

KP was laughing at our ability to play spin & had Bakwaskar & that idiot Bhogle eat their own words 

[Cloud9]

4 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Slow floaty spin wouldn't have worked if Indians knew how to employ sweep effectively. 

Someone like Kusal Mendis would have won India the game..  Heck even Samarawickrama. 

Stokes & have done their homework & can expose Indian domestic cricket in the process. 

 

KP was laughing at our ability to play spin & had Bakwaskar & that idiot Bhogle eat their own words 

Interesting fact is Dravid taught him how to play against left arm spin but somehow he couldn't teach his own team. 

[rollingstoned]

3 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Just like how the real Bazball secret in Pakistan was reverse swing which won England the Test series , this was once again about superior bowling and fielding tactics from England. The speed data of both sets of spinners shows the real difference

 

 

India(1st innings, 2nd innings)

 

Ashwin - ( 87.1. 88.2)

Jadeja - (93.8, 92.1)

Axar - (92.6, 92.2)

 

England (1st innings, 2nd innings)

 

Rehan - (84.7, 84.4)

Root - (89.6, 89.3)

Leach - (86.5, 87.7)

Hartley - (89.5, 84.8)

 

 

Look at that change in Hartley's speeds in the 2nd innings. He dropped his pace by 5 kph on average and adjusted to the slowing pitch perfectly. This, despite being on debut whereas none of our highly experienced spin trio bothered to slow down and look for mishits.  

 

Credits for data - Cricket.com (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7LQl6HWcME)

 

 

On a slow pitch you don't slow it up even more though,  especially if you're trying to beat the batsmans defences and not induce mishits. The conventional wisdom is to bowl a little quicker to compensate for it. Else the batsman has all the time in the world to adjust. 

Edited January 28, 2024 by rollingstoned

[Nikhil_cric]

45 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Slow floaty spin wouldn't have worked if Indians knew how to employ sweep effectively. 

Someone like Kusal Mendis would have won India the game..  Heck even Samarawickrama. 

Stokes & have done their homework & can expose Indian domestic cricket in the process. 

 

KP was laughing at our ability to play spin & had Bakwaskar & that idiot Bhogle eat their own words 

 

38 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

On a slow pitch you don't slow it up even more though,  especially if you're trying to beat the batsmans defences and not induce mishits. The conventional wisdom is to bowl a little quicker to compensate for it. Else the batsman has all the time in the world to adjust. 

 

Not always. You can get the ball to grip a touch. Slow pace on a slow wicket makes sweeping harder and riskier. They will have to play strong shots and much straigher and you can create chances there.

 

Anyway, toss played its part in this loss just like Chennai 2021.

 

4.0 degrees in the first innings

3.7 degrees in the second innings

4.2 degrees in the third

 5.2 degrees in the fourth

 

 

[LordPrabhzy]

1 hour ago, Kothili said:

Random debutant destroys pathetic India. 

lol story from many years- India is so gracious in making debutants great and bringing people back in form

[Gollum]

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Tom Hartley exposed Indian spinning bozos....  He said prior to the game on Wisden on Indian doctored pitches..  You don't need flight or guile. ...just fire it an & pitch will do it.. And he will match Indian spinners. 

I found it bollocks but he was spot on. 

 

Left arm spin is key to win in India. 

 

Steve o Keefe,  Kuhnemann,  And now Hartley. 

Even Elgar ran through Indians once lol. 

 

Don't play sweeps or reverse sweeps & continue to get out skilled. 

We tend to struggle against newcomers, even Todd Murphy owned us in his debut, later we figured him out.

 

One reason these SLAs are dominating us is absence of aggressive LHBs in middle order. If only we had Sundar, never mind Pant, both these guys saved us in 2021 as well. God I miss Pant, he would have ended this chooza's career in one test. 

Edited January 28, 2024 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Match was lost when we failed to score 600 in our 1st innings, just look at the dismissals especially of our top 5. Won't get easier conditions than that. 

[Bigg Brother]

Watched him only on 1st day and he looked innocuous . Proper pie chucker. Only Indian overrated stars can gift 4/5er to Root and Hartley.

[adi B]

Now we'll revert back to rank turners so that we negate the Bazball.

That said England have 3 spinners who will see this as a chance to gallop this meek Indian batting.

Will be fun watching both set of Batsmen on rank turners lol