Finally for the first time after 92 years India's Test..

[Kron]

31 minutes ago, Vijy said:

one more notorious example: michael clark decimated ATG indian batting lineup in one match. did better than any performance of warne or murali, and on par with lyon's greatest performances. doesn't make him the greatest spinner for asian conditions.

Flukes happen

That's all it was. 

 

Thukesh got crucial Elgar wicket too in SA. Pretended to fool everyone with his skill. 

 

We all know how trash he is. 

 

Thakur got 8 wickets in one game vs SA. 

He averaged like what last time in SA? 

 

 

[Vijy]

36 minutes ago, Kron said:

Flukes happen

That's all it was. 

 

Thukesh got crucial Elgar wicket too in SA. Pretended to fool everyone with his skill. 

 

We all know how trash he is. 

 

Thakur got 8 wickets in one game vs SA. 

He averaged like what last time in SA? 

 

 

lots of flukes. one can find such examples in both SC and in SENA.

[Vijy]

27 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

 

You missed the whole point of my post. Home track bullying has gotten extreme since Dhoni era once he realized he couldn't win in SENA conditions after the 0-5 drubbing.

 

It was continued by Kohli and Rohit. England will prepare swinging conditions next time to counter this and AUS will prepare whatever suits their bowlers.

What's the point of pontificating on this when both WTC finals were lost against visiting sides NZ and AUS. Not even England...

 

This is the irony of your argument. It's like running around celebrating winning second place with only one other team you are up against.

 

Can't beat NZ in WTC final. Can't beat AUS in both WTC and 50 over final.

 

But what BCCI feeds you is exactly what you will celebrate just before IPL as England was never a favorite in these conditions as besides Root and maybe Foakes none of their players have a solid technique against spin. Imagine if IPL was right after the 50 over world cup, ratings would be record low.

 

But I digress...

NZ in particular have conditions very similar to Eng. Hence, it was clearly loading conditions in their favor. A truly neutral pitch could have been in Australia.

 

Moreover, I have not read all the thread, but my impression is that some of the complaints are about all WTCs being in Eng, and that is a legit criticism. There's a good reason why WCs in various sports rotate among various venues and continents.

 

That Ind lacks a killer instinct in LOI finals is quite acknowledged on ICF. Lack of trophy ware has certainly been a frustration: one can find any number of wrist-slitting threads in the aftermath of the ODI WC final.

[Gollum]

3 hours ago, Vijy said:

NZ in particular have conditions very similar to Eng. Hence, it was clearly loading conditions in their favor. A truly neutral pitch could have been in Australia.

NZ also played a test series against Poms just before that WTC F, a series organized very late. Calling that a neutral venue or fair match is intellectually dishonest. 

 

NZ avoided BD in that WTC cycle citing quarantine excuse. Had they played that series, it would have been Ind vs Aus final. Aus deserved to win the 23 final, but NZ didn't even deserve to play the 21 F, they manipulated the system and robbed a deserving team in Aus, some nice guys eh?

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

NZ also played a test series against Poms just before that WTC F, a series organized very late. Calling that a neutral venue or fair match is intellectually dishonest. 

 

NZ avoided BD in that WTC cycle citing quarantine excuse. Had they played that series, it would have been Ind vs Aus final. Aus deserved to win the 23 final, but NZ didn't even deserve to play the 21 F, they manipulated the system and robbed a deserving team in Aus, some nice guys eh?

NZ are just that. the "nice guy" who stabs people in the back. ably led by the cunning kane "free willy" williamson.

[Real McCoy]

21 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

You missed the whole point of my post. Home track bullying has gotten extreme since Dhoni era once he realized he couldn't win in SENA conditions after the 0-5 drubbing.

 

It was continued by Kohli and Rohit. England will prepare swinging conditions next time to counter this and AUS will prepare whatever suits their bowlers.

What's the point of pontificating on this when both WTC finals were lost against visiting sides NZ and AUS. Not even England...

 

This is the irony of your argument. It's like running around celebrating winning second place with only one other team you are up against.

 

Can't beat NZ in WTC final. Can't beat AUS in both WTC and 50 over final.

 

But what BCCI feeds you is exactly what you will celebrate just before IPL as England was never a favorite in these conditions as besides Root and maybe Foakes none of their players have a solid technique against spin. Imagine if IPL was right after the 50 over world cup, ratings would be record low.

 

But I digress...

The reply from @Gollum was to bring the other side of the whole "India preparing bunsen burners since Eng are in town" whining and crying that SENA teams do. What is so strange about the pitch turning on day 1 as there are places in England that seams throughout test match.

He was not prepping for the IPL or score one for our guys. I think he does not watch the IPL. So there it is.

[express bowling]

On 3/10/2024 at 11:01 AM, Trichromatic said:

 

Even Umesh Yadav, first fast bowler who could sustain pace and fitness for a decade.

 

Average bowler, good in Indian conditions, but first one to break that chain of pacers losing pace and stamina after couple of years.

 

Srinath was the first.

 

Was at his fastest in the 1996-97 season, his 6th year in international cricket. 

Edited March 12, 2024 by express bowling

[singhvivek141]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Srinath was the first.

 

Was at his fastest in 1996-97 season, his 6th year in international cricket. 

He even retired in 2003 with his fastest ball clocking 143kph. Faster than the likes of Waqar or Wasim...who are apparently praised for their "pace" while Srinath was termed as a "Medium pacer".

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

He even retired in 2003 with his fastest ball clocking 143kph. Faster than the likes of Waqar or Wasim...who are apparently praised for their "pace" while Srinath was termed as a "Medium pacer".

Srinath was extremely fast. those who saw in ranjis in early 90s can attest to it, even more than his performance in intl's in mid 90s

[singhvivek141]

43 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Srinath was extremely fast. those who saw in ranjis in early 90s can attest to it, even more than his performance in intl's in mid 90s

I was too young to see Srinath in early 90's..but still remember few games where he was head and shoulders above Venkatesh Prasad & Manoj Prabhakar.

 

One rain affected game in Australia where they were chasing a score of 100. Srinath took 4 wickets and was literally bowling rockets after rockets, my elder cousins was literally cursing Venkatesh as due to his low pace the batters were able to blunt the movement, but Srinath's deliveries were fast and he was utilizing every bit of moisture from the pitch.

[Muloghonto]

On 3/9/2024 at 9:09 PM, Real McCoy said:

This is a pleasing sight for anyone who saw Indian team in the late 90s getting hammered whenever India stepped out of home. We didn't even have away wins against Zimbabwe. Come 00s our first away win was against bangla boys (their first test), then the whole thing slowly improved with our batting having stalwarts and then with bowling which took over. It all started with Ganguly, then Dravid, Kumble, Dhoni, Kohli, Rahane and now Rohit. Props to Indian team. jo jeeta wohi sikander

 

To be fair, the Zimbabwe team of the 90s would comfortably beat the current day Pak, SL, BD,WI and possibly even NZ teams in their own homes.  Andy flower to me is one of the greatest keeper-batsmen ever (in tests i rate him better than Gilly), while bowlers like Heath Streak are on Srinath level. 
A team made up of players like the Flower brothers, Houghton, Streak, Goodwin, Strang, Streak, Price etc are no joke. 

 

[singhvivek141]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

 

To be fair, the Zimbabwe team of the 90s would comfortably beat the current day Pak, SL, BD,WI and possibly even NZ teams in their own homes.  Andy flower to me is one of the greatest keeper-batsmen ever (in tests i rate him better than Gilly), while bowlers like Heath Streak are on Srinath level. 
A team made up of players like the Flower brothers, Houghton, Streak, Goodwin, Strang, Streak, Price etc are no joke. 

 

Ah, those good old days, when beating Zimbabwe was itself a task.

Alistair Campbell, Whittal brothers, Neil Johnson, Eddo Brandes, Stuart Carlisle, Andy Blignaut, Douglas Marrilier, Sean Ervine and so on.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2024 by singhvivek141

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Ah, those good old days, when beating Zimbabwe was itself a task.

Alistair Campbell, Whittal brothers, Neil Johnson, Eddo Brandes, Stuart Carlisle, Andy Blignaut, Douglas Marrilier, Sean Ervine and so on.

 

 

So in your opinion was Zimbabwe good side or Indian side was horrible once they left their shores.

 

 

Andy Flower was good but he was turned into Bradman against India.

[Kron]

6 hours ago, Vijy said:

Srinath was extremely fast. those who saw in ranjis in early 90s can attest to it, even more than his performance in intl's in mid 90s

Pollock said he was the quickest from Asia until shoaib came

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, Kron said:

Pollock said he was the quickest from Asia until shoaib came

that is correct. I have seen all SC pacers for 50+ years, and srinath was the fastest of them -- among those who played 10+ tests -- prior to shoaib. he was faster than two Ws, Imran, nawaz, ratnayake, kapil, etc. here, I am talking only about speed, and not about overall ability.

 

note the 10+ tests criterion I introduced above. this excludes mohd zahid who was possibly (but only slightly) faster than srinath. Including Zahid, this is the order in terms of speed prior to shoaib:

 

peak Zahid > peak Sri > peak Waqar

Edited March 12, 2024 by Vijy

[singhvivek141]

5 hours ago, putrevus said:

So in your opinion was Zimbabwe good side or Indian side was horrible once they left their shores.

 

 

Andy Flower was good but he was turned into Bradman against India.

It's a mix of both, Zimbabwe were no pushover at that era. They were a competitive side and had the ability to surprise anyone on their day, kinda like Afghanistan at present.

[gattaca]

Got to appreciate BCCI they invested well in Ranji , A tours and again more money for test players as well. Even though IPL makes more money they still invested in test cricket. The English cricketers were crying that IPL will destroy test cricket. But now they want to play IPL and they copy sehwag style badly and call it Bazball and say India is playing Bazball lol.  One thing is for sure the colonial mindset never goes away. The entitlement from these idiots.

Edited March 12, 2024 by gattaca

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

It's a mix of both, Zimbabwe were no pushover at that era. They were a competitive side and had the ability to surprise anyone on their day, kinda like Afghanistan at present.

an amped up version of Afg. Afg have better spinners but Zim had better batters, better ARs, better pacers, and better fielders.

[Kron]

6 hours ago, Vijy said:

that is correct. I have seen all SC pacers for 50+ years, and srinath was the fastest of them -- among those who played 10+ tests -- prior to shoaib. he was faster than two Ws, Imran, nawaz, ratnayake, kapil, etc. here, I am talking only about speed, and not about overall ability.

 

note the 10+ tests criterion I introduced above. this excludes mohd zahid who was possibly (but only slightly) faster than srinath. Including Zahid, this is the order in terms of speed prior to shoaib:

 

peak Zahid > peak Sri > peak Waqar

Anyone that wants to see how quick Sri was. Check out the series vs s.africa. both home and away. He was rapid. I mean like 140 to 148 rapid.

 

He was as fast as donald at his peak

[Gollum]

14 hours ago, putrevus said:

So in your opinion was Zimbabwe good side or Indian side was horrible once they left their shores.

 

 

Andy Flower was good but he was turned into Bradman against India.

People may not like to hear this but Fab 4/5 batsmen shat the bed too often in the 2000s. Entire 2002 tour to WI was a joke when it came to batting capitulation. And no excuse to collapse so often against that Zimbabwe attack, in 2001 Harare they had Heath Streak but other bowlers were Travis Friend, Brian Murphy, some guy called Watambwa who shared the new ball, collapsing in both innings despite batting first is unpardonable.