Real McCoy Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 We had a weird discussion in the CSK – MI match thread yesterday about caste issues. I don’t know how people got into it in the first place but it looks like something that we all wanted to discuss on that issue. It killed the fun of an IPL match as it occurred in the match thread, irrespective of the fun (or lack of) from an MI fans' perspective This was a long time coming in TN (as in many states in India) where people see this as an issue but not many discuss it with any form of civility which is required to reach an agreement. This also prevents all parties from approaching each other with any kind of good will in a collectivist culture like in team sports, fans, adminstrators, etc. I invite people who took part in the discussion such as @coffee_rules@rollingstoned@Vicks57. I didn’t know rollingstoned and vicks are tamil . @velu is one too, so are @Stan AF and @The Dark Horse. @Gollum also has Tamil ancestry. I’m sure there are other tamils in ICF. If someone here can add their IDs, that would be cool. Coffee is an evil archrival Kannadiga. Just kidding. NOT. Us tamils need to embrace for a hug Now lets start fighting..I mean discussing. PS – I'm also inviting @New guy for comic relief. He is as woke as woke can be, furiously typing on the keyboard fighting for social justice like a male feminist in the neighborhood writer's cafe. mishra, Number, velu and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicks57 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Thanks for the invite mate. People in the match thread were not really into the caste discussion. They just wanted to have fun. Nothing wrong with it. There are educated people who still think they are some descendents of a famous warrior of their caste. Brahmin gatekeeping of cricket in TN is a real thing. Muslims and Sikhs always had representation in the national team. Some people want to lump them with the non-brahmin Hindus. But I disagree. Non-Brahmin Hindus had no representation some time back. All the OBCs who have represented India since 2004 have come from North India. Kudos to them. Hopefully South Indian Non-Brahmin Hindus start representing in the next couple of years. This Brahmin lobby must be dismantled in TN cricket board sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 Yeah about that, I don't think there is a brahmin lobby at the moment. I maybe wrong. Nattu is a shining example of a rags to riches story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 @Vilander come on down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gattaca Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 12 minutes ago, Vicks57 said: Thanks for the invite mate. People in the match thread were not really into the caste discussion. They just wanted to have fun. Nothing wrong with it. There are educated people who still think they are some descendents of a famous warrior of their caste. Brahmin gatekeeping of cricket in TN is a real thing. Muslims and Sikhs always had representation in the national team. Some people want to lump them with the non-brahmin Hindus. But I disagree. Non-Brahmin Hindus had no representation some time back. All the OBCs who have represented India since 2004 have come from North India. Kudos to them. Hopefully South Indian Non-Brahmin Hindus start representing in the next couple of years. This Brahmin lobby must be dismantled in TN cricket board sooner than later. Is it Brahmin lobby or More DMK propaganda? DMK has been ruling TN state for long time. The justice party folks have humiliated Brahmins in Salem. Brahmins were ahead because they got educated and got jobs in British raj and subsequently had more hold over jobs in Indian government. After so many years of reservations and DMK how are still people are crying Brahmins rule everything ? I am not a Brahmin. But why do people of TN make it about Brahmins ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 rollingstoned and mishra 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicks57 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 12 minutes ago, gattaca said: Is it Brahmin lobby or More DMK propaganda? DMK has been ruling TN state for long time. The justice party folks have humiliated Brahmins in Salem. Brahmins were ahead because they got educated and got jobs in British raj and subsequently had more hold over jobs in Indian government. After so many years of reservations and DMK how are still people are crying Brahmins rule everything ? I am not a Brahmin. But why do people of TN make it about Brahmins ? N Srinivasan itself is a DMK supporter and is very close to the DMK ruling family. India Cements donates to DMK. CSK donates to ADMK. I absolutely condemn harassing Brahmins or any other group. But this DMK/ADMK nonsense needs to stop. Only Periyar spew hatred against Brahmins. This India Cements group has been controlling TN cricket for a very long time. Brahmin lobby is real. Edited April 15 by Vicks57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 One question to people residing in TN. Is cricket mostly played by Brahmins in TN? Especially coaching centres and all. Is it a case of Brahmins preferring cricket, some other caste preferring hockey, football, volleyball etc. Like how in Odisha, Jharkhand, mostly adivasis play hockey.....how in Punjab only rural folks play it, or Muslims in Bhopal. Tamil Brahmins are mostly veggie, hence maybe mostly spinners or batsmen (Nattu is definitely non-Brahmin since his parents are butchers I read, L Balaji another pacer too non-Brahmin I think). Dunno, eager to hear what others say. I think other castes gaining prominence in TN cricket will make them a stronger pool of talent, and fast bowlers may emerge. Again when it comes to Brahmins, can't compare an Iyer/Iyengar with a Saraswat Brahmin or Bengali Brahmin. Sachin too is a Brahmin but his dietary habits will be much different than Ashwin's. In Bengal, Brahmins are voracious meat eaters, in Assam I have seen devout Brahmins eat even buffalo beef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicks57 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 13 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Yeah about that, I don't think there is a brahmin lobby at the moment. I maybe wrong. Nattu is a shining example of a rags to riches story Nattu's entire cricket career is a accident. Dude used to bowl stumper balls. One thing about T20 is that everything is result oriented and money. You cannot omit a guy bowling Yorkers with this much control. That's how Nattu got in. So T20 and IPL has helped non-brahmin Hindus in a huge way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 I don't think there is a bias at individual level, what is there to gain? And Iyengars and Iyers have their own mahayudh. Within castes you'll have sub castes, then sub sub castes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicks57 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Gollum said: One question to people residing in TN. Is cricket mostly played by Brahmins in TN? Especially coaching centres and all. Is it a case of Brahmins preferring cricket, some other caste preferring hockey, football, volleyball etc. Like how in Odisha, Jharkhand, mostly adivasis play hockey.....how in Punjab only rural folks play it, or Muslims in Bhopal. Tamil Brahmins are mostly veggie, hence maybe mostly spinners or batsmen (Nattu is definitely non-Brahmin since his parents are butchers I read, L Balaji another pacer too non-Brahmin I think). Dunno, eager to hear what others say. I think other castes gaining prominence in TN cricket will make them a stronger pool of talent, and fast bowlers may emerge. Again when it comes to Brahmins, can't compare an Iyer/Iyengar with a Saraswat Brahmin or Bengali Brahmin. Sachin too is a Brahmin but his dietary habits will be much different than Ashwin's. In Bengal, Brahmins are voracious meat eaters, in Assam I have seen devout Brahmins eat even buffalo beef. L Balaji is also a Brahmin as far as I know. There are dark Brahmins here in south. Brahmins absolutely prefer Cricket to other sports. Generally, Brahmins drum themselves as too smart. They see cricket as a strategic game and not a physical game. They prefer batting and spin bowling. Here is Boskee who is a former TN spinner, commentator talking about Brahmin intelligence. https://youtube.com/shorts/4U9HymHCG88?feature=shared Regarding beef, --- no agricultural society in India would eat buffalo/ox/cow. More than 90 percent of TN (this applies to whole of India as well) used to be involved with agriculture. Genetically superior bulls would be used for breeding purposes. How do you identify genetically superior bulls? Through Jallikattu sport. Other bulls would be used for plowing and bullock carts. In the Vedic age, Brahmins would conduct yagnas and sacrifice horses, cows, bulls for a purpose. These bulls, cows, horses have to be gifted by the king. Usually this happens when the king has to win a war or if he wants a baby boy. These sacrificed cattle have to be consumed by Brahmins alone. General public had a negative view of Brahmins conducting these yagnas as they loved their cattle. Nature worship, lingaa worship and mother goddess worship (like Amman, kotravai) were common at that time. Buddhism started gaining prominence and Buddhists did not believe in sacrifices and they only ate meat when needed. They only consumed sickly cattle or cows about to die. Brahmins started losing relevance. To one up Buddhists, they gave up entire meat consumption altogether. So Brahmins eating meat is not a new phenomenon. Edited April 15 by Vicks57 coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 10 minutes ago, gattaca said: Is it Brahmin lobby or More DMK propaganda? DMK has been ruling TN state for long time. The justice party folks have humiliated Brahmins in Salem. Brahmins were ahead because they got educated and got jobs in British raj and subsequently had more hold over jobs in Indian government. After so many years of reservations and DMK how are still people are crying Brahmins rule everything ? I am not a Brahmin. But why do people of TN make it about Brahmins ? There could be both. We are all humans and in modern times the element of truthfulness and fairness is lacking between humans. Polticians are well known for the lack of truth in their speech and we would be cheating ourselves of the truth if we dismiss straightaway the concept of any lobby. I do admire the Brahmin culture of austerity, and observance. I'm also of the opinion that each class/caste should govern themselves as to what is right for their people. I interact with Chartered Accountants who are mostly Brahmin and I prefer it that way. They are more interested in attention to detail and give good advice. They are usually good mild mannered folk. I saw someone make a comment on them dominating the CA business as though that's a bad thing. We can't have government interfere in every aspect of personal life. Infact that would be dangerous. We don't want to descend into communism. I'm also not very pleased with the reservation system. Step into any government office and you can see it for yourself. IMO Brahmins usually don't have much say in the political structure in TN. There is definitely no Brahmin looby in the TN government but the question is about TN cricket. I'm not a Brahmin either Vicks57 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 40 minutes ago, Gollum said: One question to people residing in TN. Is cricket mostly played by Brahmins in TN? Especially coaching centres and all. Is it a case of Brahmins preferring cricket, some other caste preferring hockey, football, volleyball etc. Like how in Odisha, Jharkhand, mostly adivasis play hockey.....how in Punjab only rural folks play it, or Muslims in Bhopal. Tamil Brahmins are mostly veggie, hence maybe mostly spinners or batsmen (Nattu is definitely non-Brahmin since his parents are butchers I read, L Balaji another pacer too non-Brahmin I think). Dunno, eager to hear what others say. I think other castes gaining prominence in TN cricket will make them a stronger pool of talent, and fast bowlers may emerge. Again when it comes to Brahmins, can't compare an Iyer/Iyengar with a Saraswat Brahmin or Bengali Brahmin. Sachin too is a Brahmin but his dietary habits will be much different than Ashwin's. In Bengal, Brahmins are voracious meat eaters, in Assam I have seen devout Brahmins eat even buffalo beef. I've read his parents is into weaving like cloth making. Balaji is a brahmin. I have heard of Brahmin lobby in the 90s. There was also talks about the Karnataka lobby in Indian cricket around that time namely 5 full time players from ktk. How much of this is actual lobbying and how much is because they were good to make it. My guess is probably somewhere in between. This isn't a discussion on veg/non-veg If that was so, Mushy can brute power sixes like Keiran pollard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 30 minutes ago, Vicks57 said: L Balaji is also a Brahmin as far as I know. There are dark Brahmins here in south. Brahmins absolutely prefer Cricket to other sports. Generally, Brahmins drum themselves as too smart. They see cricket as a strategic game and not a physical game. They prefer batting and spin bowling. Here is Boskee who is a former TN spinner, commentator talking about Brahmin intelligence. https://youtube.com/shorts/4U9HymHCG88?feature=shared Regarding beef, --- no agricultural society in India would eat buffalo/ox/cow. More than 90 percent of TN (this applies to whole of India as well) used to be involved with agriculture. Genetically superior bulls would be used for breeding purposes. How do you identify genetically superior bulls? Through Jallikattu sport. Other bulls would be used for plowing and bullock carts. In the Vedic age, Brahmins would conduct yagnas and sacrifice horses, cows, bulls for a purpose. These bulls, cows, horses have to be gifted by the king. Usually this happens when the king has to win a war or if he wants a baby boy. These sacrificed cattle have to be consumed by Brahmins alone. General public had a negative view of Brahmins conducting these yagnas as they loved their cattle. Nature worship, lingaa worship and mother goddess worship (like Amman, kotravai) were common at that time. Buddhism started gaining prominence and Buddhists did not believe in sacrifices and they only ate meat when needed. They only consumed sickly cattle or cows about to die. Brahmins started losing relevance. To one up Buddhists, they gave up entire meat consumption altogether. So Brahmins eating meat is not a new phenomenon. Can you name the sources of your information for the highlighted text. Jallikattu sport we know the practice is for breeding purposes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 59 minutes ago, Gollum said: I don't think there is a bias at individual level, what is there to gain? And Iyengars and Iyers have their own mahayudh. Within castes you'll have sub castes, then sub sub castes. I know an Iyengar friend whose family is quite chill that he visits all temples. He used to say that usually Iyengars don't go to Shaivite temples. Iyers usually visit both Shaivite and Vaishnavite temples. He also said even within Iyengars there is division among thenkalai vadakalai (meaning something Northern and Southern branches, North in this case maybe AP not North India ). I also see Iyengars vary in the shape and color of their namams Gollum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, Vicks57 said: Nattu's entire cricket career is a accident. Dude used to bowl stumper balls. One thing about T20 is that everything is result oriented and money. You cannot omit a guy bowling Yorkers with this much control. That's how Nattu got in. So T20 and IPL has helped non-brahmin Hindus in a huge way. Yeah but he made his first class debut even before his T20 journey. IPL just made him more famous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 (edited) I saw the thread tile and then I thought I will look at name of person who contributed to opening the thread. Then I thought OK Edited April 16 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 19 minutes ago, mishra said: I saw the thread tile and then I thought I will look at name of person who contributed to opening the thread. Then I thought OK Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 19 hours ago, Real McCoy said: Can you name the sources of your information for the highlighted text. Jallikattu sport we know the practice is for breeding purposes DMK . Marxist, Leftists literature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 6 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: DMK . Marxist, Leftists literature. You forgot colonial era missionary literature. But lets wait for his response before you pass judgement. coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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