Real McCoy Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 33 minutes ago, Gollum said: This Tamil Brahmin angle was also pushed a lot in chess because most of our GMs till 10 years back were Iyers and Iyengars. But now you have non-Brahmins like Pragg, Gukesh, Arjun coming up nicely. And guess what, Vishy Anand (an Iyer) has been personally training candidates qualified Pragg, Vaishali and Gukesh for the last 4 years in his Soviet style academy in Chennai (other students like Arjun, Leon Luke, Nihal Sarin, Raunak Sadhwani). Our best chess coach is Ramesh RB, another Brahmin, who coached Aravind, Pragg to become GMs, still doing a lot for Indian chess. You think these guys care about caste or religion? They are working towards bigger goals like making India a chess superpower, preparing future world champions and training schoolkids to take down Carlsen in a few years time. Only jobless, stupid, hateful people will cast aspersions or bring in caste and divide people. This gatekeeping theory is far fetched. Why didn't Tam Brahms gatekeep chess, nobody would have raised an eyebrow because of their achievements (in contrast to TN cricket who can't win a freaking Ranji). All AICF top posts have been occupied by non-Brahmins, mostly Northies. Wonder why Vishy never got involved in all that politics then? IMO people like Vishy are brahmins in the original form. The original purpose of Brahmins was to make other people better and help them in their progress towards the divine. The other form as many Tamils are indoctrinated by Periyar and co, also existed. There is a semblamce of truth to their theories only they target the entire bunch of brahmins and argue for reservation and persecution is where I have an issue with. There is a general lack of understanding that Brahmins can also falter in their behavior and not forgiving any past mistakes is also a problem. As @mishra mentioned all classes failed in one way or another. But only brahmins are blamed because they are the guiders. We have to stop the blame game but there is politics to be done with it and people are not willing to let go of that opportunity. Gollum, mishra and ravishingravi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 1 hour ago, Gollum said: Bro, Baskaran is now 73. TN had even better hockey players like Phillips and Govinda in the 70s (the 1975 WC win was bigger than 1980 Moscow which most of the world boycotted, all our main rivals from the West and Pakistan skipped Moscow.), Dhyan Chand's immortals had representation from Madras State. TN also had great tennis players once upon a time, but for the last 30-40 years, there is a lack of representation from TN in Indian sports, not just cricket. That is a lot of years, half of independent India's history......and TN has (for Indian standards) a very good economy, good HDI, big population, sports infrastructure etc. As you said, probably a mindset problem where the youth don't see a future in sports, or don't train enough or with the right attitude. Yeah that's why I said bhaskaran was the first name that came to mind because he also served as a coach sometime back and there were other players whose names I don't remember. Gollum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: History won't ever be kind to Brahmins... They will be blamed for weakening society or pushing way too much divide & backwardness which made country ripe for picking by invaders... Which may or may not be right completely but either way they are blamed by all. Post Independence... Brahmins Khatris and Parsis have built this country through their sweat and blood & pushed for modernization. Their contribution is immense. LC's as much as they detest this but it is plain truth. That's not just Indian society. That's throughout the world. Europe as recent as few centuries ago, had the feudal system where they had lords, knights, counts, dukes, and then peasants. We got off easy. Think about the damage that Russia and China faced with communism and France due to their revolution. "Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity" sounds right, no? but they were all words to incite class warfare and how brutal was the end of France as a powerful nation. Even their queen was not spared from the guillotine. They were better under their monarchy and feudal lords than their democratic jibby jabba they have now. I heard refugees are even in their small villages now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: History won't ever be kind to Brahmins... They will be blamed for weakening society or pushing way too much divide & backwardness which made country ripe for picking by invaders... Which may or may not be right completely but either way they are blamed by all. Post Independence... Brahmins Khatris and Parsis have built this country through their sweat and blood & pushed for modernization. Their contribution is immense. LC's as much as they detest this but it is plain truth. Each time Sachin failed in batting order in important game, we remember that. No one blames other 10 except in exceptional cases Real McCoy and Lone Wolf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 16 minutes ago, mishra said: Each time Sachin failed in batting order in important game, we remember that. No one blames other 10 except in exceptional cases My reason to blame him is for a different reason. it triggers plenty of his fans mishra and Gollum 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 hour ago, Real McCoy said: My reason to blame him is for a different reason. it triggers plenty of his fans Anything that pisses off @Laaloo, I approve. mishra, Real McCoy, Stan AF and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rish Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Sorry..I thought I was in the 21st century Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 ^^^ Sorry I thought you had a brain. This was discussed in a match thread of all places. This is a free forum where people can discuss as the please. Lord 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 On 4/17/2024 at 6:43 PM, coffee_rules said: Muslims are majority of beneficiaries of EWS as they are made to qualify under EWS and not under special OBC category as done in some states. When Kar removed Ms from OBCs, they were told they would qualify under EWS with a larger quota of 10% Can you share your source here? Real McCoy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 9 hours ago, Real McCoy said: IMO people like Vishy are brahmins in the original form. The original purpose of Brahmins was to make other people better and help them in their progress towards the divine. The other form as many Tamils are indoctrinated by Periyar and co, also existed. There is a semblamce of truth to their theories only they target the entire bunch of brahmins and argue for reservation and persecution is where I have an issue with. There is a general lack of understanding that Brahmins can also falter in their behavior and not forgiving any past mistakes is also a problem. As @mishra mentioned all classes failed in one way or another. But only brahmins are blamed because they are the guiders. We have to stop the blame game but there is politics to be done with it and people are not willing to let go of that opportunity. There is no semblance to truth in any of the dravidian/periyarist theories. 1. Brahmins are by far the least oppressive of the clergy class of any non-dharmic religion. Brahmins don't make it their business to semonise about someone being a sinner for adultery or usury or such things, they don't demand obescience or bribery to absolve the sin they went crusading to find. They also don't ask people to make animal or human sacrifice like the european pagans did. 2. Indus valley is not dravidian, dravidian being the original inhabitants of india with aryans being migrants is a debuked theory ( check Heggarty et al 2023 for eg). 3. Tamil is not the oldest language in the world, not by a long shot - sumerian is the oldest attested language and we have indo-european languages like Mitanni, Hittite, etc. which are older in archaeological record than Tamil. 4. The dravidians were far more staunch hindu than the aryans of the north, something you often see in converted populations going an extra mile than the originator population in religions ( Spaniards were way more catholic than italians in the medieval period, Pakistani vs saudis today, etc) ash 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 11 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: There is no semblance to truth in any of the dravidian/periyarist theories. 1. Brahmins are by far the least oppressive of the clergy class of any non-dharmic religion. Brahmins don't make it their business to semonise about someone being a sinner for adultery or usury or such things, they don't demand obescience or bribery to absolve the sin they went crusading to find. They also don't ask people to make animal or human sacrifice like the european pagans did. 2. Indus valley is not dravidian, dravidian being the original inhabitants of india with aryans being migrants is a debuked theory ( check Heggarty et al 2023 for eg). 3. Tamil is not the oldest language in the world, not by a long shot - sumerian is the oldest attested language and we have indo-european languages like Mitanni, Hittite, etc. which are older in archaeological record than Tamil. 4. The dravidians were far more staunch hindu than the aryans of the north, something you often see in converted populations going an extra mile than the originator population in religions ( Spaniards were way more catholic than italians in the medieval period, Pakistani vs saudis today, etc) Are you sure there is absolutely NO semblance. Are you saying there is not even one brahmin who never did anything for his community at the expense of others. I guess we should all start worshipping brahmins and stop worshipping gods. We are not talking aryan dravidian. You are preaching to the choir here. Totally out of track with what we were talking about the past few pages. I'm over 'muh language is hte greatest, oldest sh1t. South Indian languages are a different language group but there is not much difference in Indians' DNA meaning they were mostly homogenous. Vedic history is so far back that your theory of conversion is on shaky grounds. You act like you lived when Mitanni was still spoken in Earth or when South Indians were converted to Hindusim like it was marked in stone The first paragraph in this reply was my point not the points you mentioned. If you are going to talk about the latter, then you are going on tangents to the topic. I know you will respond with an essay. Go ahead and have your say. I'm not going to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mariyam said: Can you share your source here? Good question. Coffee, your response? Edited April 19 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 2 hours ago, Mariyam said: Can you share your source here? https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/karnataka-muslim-reservation-waqf-board-unhappy-over-4-quota-ews-bommai-2351401-2023-03-25 https://amp.scroll.in/article/1048144/explainer-how-do-muslims-get-reservations-in-india “ Status of reservations Several Muslim communities get reservations in the Central OBC and several state OBC lists. According to a 2005 National Sample Survey Organisation survey, Muslim OBCs constitute around 41% of the total Muslim population. While states like Kerala have OBC reservations for the entire Muslim community (8% in educational institutions and 10% in government jobs), states like Tamil Nadu provide reservations to close to 95% of Muslim communities. There are other states such as Bihar that have bifurcated OBCs into backward and most backward classes and most of the Muslim communities fall under the most backward category. … EWS reservation The Karnataka government has also said that Muslims will be eligible for reservation under the economically weaker sections category. “That is also a wrong statement,” said Gopal. He said that the only requirements for EWS reservations are that beneficiaries should not be members of Scheduled Caste, Scheduled Tribes or Other Backward Classes and that their families should fall below a certain income and asset level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 5 hours ago, Real McCoy said: Are you sure there is absolutely NO semblance. Are you saying there is not even one brahmin who never did anything for his community at the expense of others. I guess we should all start worshipping brahmins and stop worshipping gods. We don't need the 'not even one brahmin' argument, because no one claimed that all brahmins are perfect, nor do we need perfection from each and every individual of a given community inorder not to slur a community as assholes. If 'one single brahmin' is the criteria, then every single conceivable demographic are assholes equal to brahmins. Ergo, reductio ad absurdum is invoked and argument of such is rejected. 5 hours ago, Real McCoy said: We are not talking aryan dravidian. You are preaching to the choir here. Totally out of track with what we were talking about the past few pages. I'm over 'muh language is hte greatest, oldest sh1t. South Indian languages are a different language group but there is not much difference in Indians' DNA meaning they were mostly homogenous. Vedic history is so far back that your theory of conversion is on shaky grounds. You act like you lived when Mitanni was still spoken in Earth or when South Indians were converted to Hindusim like it was marked in stone South indian conversion doesn't have to be set in stone, or in recent time for a converted group to display greater fanaticism from the demographic. Pakistani were converted 1000+ years ago, spaniards went apeshit psycho-christian from reconquesta period ( 1500) to pretty much the 19th century and they were converted a solid 1000 years prior. The argument of 'converted people are more zealous' may or maynot be applicable here, but its inapplicability is certainly not due to timeframe involved - if 1000 years doesn't make a difference, then 4000 years won't either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 13 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: We don't need the 'not even one brahmin' argument, because no one claimed that all brahmins are perfect, nor do we need perfection from each and every individual of a given community inorder not to slur a community as assholes. If 'one single brahmin' is the criteria, then every single conceivable demographic are assholes equal to brahmins. Ergo, reductio ad absurdum is invoked and argument of such is rejected. South indian conversion doesn't have to be set in stone, or in recent time for a converted group to display greater fanaticism from the demographic. Pakistani were converted 1000+ years ago, spaniards went apeshit psycho-christian from reconquesta period ( 1500) to pretty much the 19th century and they were converted a solid 1000 years prior. The argument of 'converted people are more zealous' may or maynot be applicable here, but its inapplicability is certainly not due to timeframe involved - if 1000 years doesn't make a difference, then 4000 years won't either. My question "not even one brahmin" was a rhetorical one to convey a slightly bigger percentage. This is not another thread to demonize them only to make sense of what happened and how to mitigate the situation so that everyone gets something out of it. There were quite a few percentage of their population who were self-serving is my point of view (as is the norm of people in general) and DK used that to justify crimes against them. That was my point and I'm against that violent behavior. Without reading the context of pages worth of discussion, you talk as if you are an expert and add some latin to make it look good. Dude again I'm questioning the conversion theory itself not zealous factor. The vedic period was so far back that we don't know the details. Anyway this is not what we are discussing about. Refrain from tangential topics. Don't compare it with Abrahamic conversions which were mostly violent. Get more firm on what the argument is before you start typing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 (edited) 13 hours ago, Mariyam said: Can you share your source here? RSS is clear on one thing to which every Indian must appreciate and understand BJP governance. 1. There are atleast 20% Muslims in country. 2. India must be developed country by 2047 3. India can not be developed country if those 20% Muslims remain backward (economically and socially). Edited April 20 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 14 hours ago, Mariyam said: Can you share your source here? Except Kashmiri Muslims who are loaded... It is pretty obvious. coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 14 hours ago, mishra said: RSS is clear on one thing to which every Indian must appreciate and understand BJP governance. 1. There are atleast 20% Muslims in country. 2. India must be developed country by 2047 3. India can not be developed country if those 20% Muslims remain backward (economically and socially). we are working on a plan to reduce those numbers by 2047 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 21 hours ago, Real McCoy said: My question "not even one brahmin" was a rhetorical one to convey a slightly bigger percentage. This is not another thread to demonize them only to make sense of what happened and how to mitigate the situation so that everyone gets something out of it. There were quite a few percentage of their population who were self-serving is my point of view (as is the norm of people in general) and DK used that to justify crimes against them. That was my point and I'm against that violent behavior. Without reading the context of pages worth of discussion, you talk as if you are an expert and add some latin to make it look good. Dude again I'm questioning the conversion theory itself not zealous factor. The vedic period was so far back that we don't know the details. Anyway this is not what we are discussing about. Refrain from tangential topics. Don't compare it with Abrahamic conversions which were mostly violent. Get more firm on what the argument is before you start typing. Prove to me that the % of self serving brahmins is even comparable to self serving padres and mullahs, let alone that of the general population. Until you can, there is nothing to point fingers at brahmins for, except maybe for being a bit too nice towards the abrahamics. How can you question conversion theory ? hinduism didnt just spring up all across india at once. it spread from a given place to rest, just like buddhism and jainism or any other religion did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 On 4/20/2024 at 3:13 AM, coffee_rules said: https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/karnataka-muslim-reservation-waqf-board-unhappy-over-4-quota-ews-bommai-2351401-2023-03-25 https://amp.scroll.in/article/1048144/explainer-how-do-muslims-get-reservations-in-india “ Status of reservations Several Muslim communities get reservations in the Central OBC and several state OBC lists. According to a 2005 National Sample Survey Organisation survey, Muslim OBCs constitute around 41% of the total Muslim population. While states like Kerala have OBC reservations for the entire Muslim community (8% in educational institutions and 10% in government jobs), states like Tamil Nadu provide reservations to close to 95% of Muslim communities. There are other states such as Bihar that have bifurcated OBCs into backward and most backward classes and most of the Muslim communities fall under the most backward category. … EWS reservation The Karnataka government has also said that Muslims will be eligible for reservation under the economically weaker sections category. “That is also a wrong statement,” said Gopal. He said that the only requirements for EWS reservations are that beneficiaries should not be members of Scheduled Caste, Scheduled Tribes or Other Backward Classes and that their families should fall below a certain income and asset level Nothing in these articles even remotely suggest that Muslims are the biggest beneficiaries of the EWS. Is there a specific line/ inference that I have missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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