Did Aus not learn from T20WC22?

[zen]

The 2021 champions failed to reach the knockouts playing at home in 2022. The team looked jaded at that time. 
 

A major change that we saw was Head in for the retired Finch. The rest of the team is more or less the same from the top of the mind recall. 
 

It is no surprise that Aus struggled in this format esp. with Marsh struggling for consistency. Don’t know how consistent Warner has been in T20s in the recent past but he could have been phased out too. 
 

Aus needed to send a relatively young team. In IPL, there was this 18 years old electric batsman playing for DC. Don’t recall is name - Fraser or something. Guys like those should have come to the Caribbean!

 

Who are the next gen players for Aus? And why are they not getting chances esp. in T20s?
 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2024 by zen

[BacktoCricaddict]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

The 2021 champions failed to reach the knockouts playing at home in 2022. The team looked jaded at that time. 
 

A major change that we saw was Head in for the retired Finch. The rest of the team is more or less the same from the top of the mind recall. 
 

It is no surprise that Aus struggled in this format esp. with Marsh struggling for consistency. Don’t know how consistent Warner has been in T20s in the recent past but he could have been phased out too. 
 

Aus needed to send a relatively young team. In IPL, there was this 18 years old electric batsman playing for DC. Don’t recall is name - Fraser or something. Guys like those should have come to the Caribbean!

 

Who are the next gen players for Aus? And why are they not getting chances esp. in T20s?
 

 

 

 

 

Playing so much cricket in India, they could have emulated a lot of things from Indian culture, but decided they want to go with seniority culture.

 

[Number]

It's okay. You can't keep winning all the things all the time. We don't need to teach them lol.

[Ultimate_Game]

Australia is the luckiest team going around. They won the "toss off" WT20 2021 in Dewbai thanks to winning 6 out of 7 tosses. The only toss they lost, they were hammered by England.

 

In WC2023 they lucked out again to win a very important toss. If they had lost the toss there they wouldn't have won the final. It was our fault for playing on that pitch (thanks Dravid) but they were still lucky to have won the toss.

 

They won the toss again in WTC final in 2023 which was a huge advantage. If they had India's luck with the coin, they would've had zero titles in the last few years. And if we had Aussies' luck with the coin, we're probably sitting here with a few trophies. Cricket is one sport where toss is extremely important - at least in big games. Best way is to have day games instead of day-night matches so that at least dew doesn't become a factor and there's some semblance of conditions being equal for both the teams. 

[zen]

20 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Australia is the luckiest team going around. They won the "toss off" WT20 2021 in Dewbai thanks to winning 6 out of 7 tosses. The only toss they lost, they were hammered by England.

 

In WC2023 they lucked out again to win a very important toss. If they had lost the toss there they wouldn't have won the final. It was our fault for playing on that pitch (thanks Dravid) but they were still lucky to have won the toss.

 

They won the toss again in WTC final in 2023 which was a huge advantage. If they had India's luck with the coin, they would've had zero titles in the last few years. And if we had Aussies' luck with the coin, we're probably sitting here with a few trophies. Cricket is one sport where toss is extremely important - at least in big games. Best way is to have day games instead of day-night matches so that at least dew doesn't become a factor and there's some semblance of conditions being equal for both the teams. 

Toss is only a part of the game. A team has to play well on field too to win. 

 

Toss talk sounds like losers complaining  

In 2021, Aus probably peaked at the right time. While Eng lost steam, much like India in 2023. Aus was always the favorite to win the WTC test in Eng. 

 

That SF win against Pak was legendary where Wade and I forgot who pulled off a win (thanks to the dropped catch by Hasan Ali(?) as well) with some excellent hitting under pressure. In the F, Marsh played a superb knock.

 

In 2003 F, Ind won the toss but could do zilch with that. On the other hand, Ind lost the toss in 1983 and 2011 but won the game. 
 

In short, Aus has won by putting in some meaningful performances under pressure. The team is confident and focused. One of the reasons, they hold tons of titles (SA has been the opposite of Aus).

Edited June 25, 2024 by zen

[Sgattick10]

I think Aus needs to move forward with their bowling. Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood are all great but predictable in T20 with their similar line and length. Batting is still fine though I feel Warner and Wade will retire and they will bring in Frazier and some young guns. In bowling, they can bring in couple young bowlers from their under 19 squad. Overall a transitional period for them but still they're doing well. 

[Ultimate_Game]

38 minutes ago, zen said:

Toss is only a part of the game. A team has to play well on field too to win. 

 

Toss talk sounds like losers complaining  

In 2021, Aus probably peaked at the right time. While Eng lost steam, much like India in 2023. Aus was always the favorite to win the WTC test in Eng. 

 

That SF win against Pak was legendary where Wade and I forgot who pulled off a win (thanks to the dropped catch by Hasan Ali(?) as well) with some excellent hitting under pressure. In the F, Marsh played a superb knock.

 

In 2003 F, Ind won the toss but could do zilch with that. On the other hand, Ind lost the toss in 1983 and 2011 but won the game. 
 

In short, Aus has won by putting in some meaningful performances under pressure. The team is confident and focused. One of the reasons, they hold tons of titles (SA has been the opposite of Aus).

 

There're some venues and pitches where toss is the most important factor. WT20 in 2021 was one of those. If you think both the chasing and batting first teams had equal chances to win, or that WC2023 final had a huge advantage when dew came in under lights, I would agree to disagree. Aussies have had more than their share of rub of the green in recent times.

[zen]

14 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

There're some venues and pitches where toss is the most important factor. WT20 in 2021 was one of those. If you think both the chasing and batting first teams had equal chances to win, or that WC2023 final had a huge advantage when dew came in under lights, I would agree to disagree. Aussies have had more than their share of rub of the green in recent times.

By that logic, if SA (or team X) had won most (if not all) of the tosses, it would have won the World Cup.

 

Sorry buddy, I am NOT a part of the ICF group that keeps complaining about tosses!

 

Edited June 25, 2024 by zen

[Ultimate_Game]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

By that logic, if SA (or team X) had won all the tosses, it would have won the World Cup.

 

Sorry buddy, I am NOT a part of the ICF group that keep complaining about tosses. 

 

As I said, if you believe that venues like Dubai or that WC2023 final pitch under lights don't give a huge advantage to teams chasing, we've nothing to discuss

[zen]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

As I said, if you believe that venues like Dubai or that WC2023 final pitch under lights don't give a huge advantage to teams chasing, we've nothing to discuss

As I said, NOT a part of the group that keeps harping about tosses  

 

Link - a thread of mine on Aus in 2021. 

[cricketfan28]

Head is the only rest are meh

[R!TTER]

2 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

If they had lost the toss there they wouldn't have won the final.

The fault was ours, but even with the toss advantage they could've been beaten if we were smart & didn't drop dollies or half chances in the second innings! They were more "lucky" in the game against Afghans but then you'd forget Afghans dropped 2 dollies off Maxi & fed him spinners for 20-30 overs when he was limping? Maxi isn't comfortable against pace & they should've capitalised on his obvious fatigue, same goes for RGS playing that *ing hoick of the last(?) ball of the PP in the finals 

 

Cricket is basically a game of chess in & of itself!

[Gollum]

2 hours ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Australia is the luckiest team going around. They won the "toss off" WT20 2021 in Dewbai thanks to winning 6 out of 7 tosses. The only toss they lost, they were hammered by England.

 

In WC2023 they lucked out again to win a very important toss. If they had lost the toss there they wouldn't have won the final. It was our fault for playing on that pitch (thanks Dravid) but they were still lucky to have won the toss.

 

They won the toss again in WTC final in 2023 which was a huge advantage. If they had India's luck with the coin, they would've had zero titles in the last few years. And if we had Aussies' luck with the coin, we're probably sitting here with a few trophies. Cricket is one sport where toss is extremely important - at least in big games. Best way is to have day games instead of day-night matches so that at least dew doesn't become a factor and there's some semblance of conditions being equal for both the teams. 

We won the toss in 2023 wtc final.

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

The fault was ours, but even with the toss advantage they could've been beaten if we were smart & didn't drop dollies or half chances in the second innings! They were more "lucky" in the game against Afghans but then you'd forget Afghans dropped 2 dollies off Maxi & fed him spinners for 20-30 overs when he was limping? Maxi isn't comfortable against pace & they should've capitalised on his obvious fatigue, same goes for RGS playing that *ing hoick of the last(?) ball of the PP in the finals 

 

Cricket is basically a game of chess in & of itself!

 

Rohit played a rash shot but was no way responsible for defeat majorly. We were 80-2 in 10 overs after his wicket. No way you should be scored only 240 from there

[R!TTER]

Just now, Lord said:

 

Rohit played a rash shot but was no way responsible for defeat majorly.

That was one of the major factors whether you agree with it or not, after he got out Cummins bowled what 10-15 overs of part timers including Maxi? He wouldn't have done that if RGS was in! It was also clear from at least 5-6 games back that RGS was going to be the aggressor no matter the situation & Oz took advantage of that.

[Lord]

Just now, R!TTER said:

That was one of the major factors whether you agree with it or not, after he got out Cummins bowled what 10-15 overs of part timers including Maxi? He wouldn't have done that if RGS was in! It was also clear from at least 5-6 games back that RGS was going to be the aggressor no matter the situation & Oz took advantage of that.

Others could have also taken on Maxi and Zampa etc 

 

To me Iyer wicket was one where they decided to shut shop.

 

As I said from 80-2 it should be easy to capitalise and get atleast 270-280

[R!TTER]

Ok 10 in total but look at the runs cored of part timers after PP -

 

BOWLING	O	M	R	W	ECON	0s	4s	6s	WD	NB
Mitchell Starc	10	0	55	3	5.50	30	4	1	3	0
Josh Hazlewood	10	0	60	2	6.00	22	4	1	1	0
Glenn Maxwell	6	0	35	1	5.83	19	4	1	0	0
Pat Cummins	10	0	34	2	3.40	30	0	0	2	0
Adam Zampa	10	0	44	1	4.40	22	1	0	1	0
Mitchell Marsh	2	0	5	0	2.50	7	0	0	0	0
Travis Head	2	0	4	0	2.00	8	0	0	0

[R!TTER]

Just now, Lord said:

To me Iyer wicket was one where they decided to shut shop.

 

I'm not excusing Iyer either, he's one of the most overrated hacks we have right now! Completely goes missing under pressure or vs good pacers. But when you know you're already one down, it's the grand finale & you've already taken double digits from that over why step out again? As captain & the opening bat it was his failure at the top that actually started the slide! He also gave up maybe 5 overs into the chase by Oz.

[Lord]

3 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Ok 10 in total but look at the runs cored of part timers after PP -

 

BOWLING	O	M	R	W	ECON	0s	4s	6s	WD	NB
Mitchell Starc	10	0	55	3	5.50	30	4	1	3	0
Josh Hazlewood	10	0	60	2	6.00	22	4	1	1	0
Glenn Maxwell	6	0	35	1	5.83	19	4	1	0	0
Pat Cummins	10	0	34	2	3.40	30	0	0	2	0
Adam Zampa	10	0	44	1	4.40	22	1	0	1	0
Mitchell Marsh	2	0	5	0	2.50	7	0	0	0	0
Travis Head	2	0	4	0	2.00	8	0	0	0

 

That is KL masterclass. Rohit wicket was not the reason he played so timidly.

[Ultimate_Game]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

Others could have also taken on Maxi and Zampa etc 

 

To me Iyer wicket was one where they decided to shut shop.

 

As I said from 80-2 it should be easy to capitalise and get atleast 270-280

 

IMO Iyer's wkt was a huge loss. He was our middle order enforcer. He's the one who killed the match against NZ. He was the one who took initiative in the middle overs throughout the tourney. He should've been backed and I think he would've been a better fit instead of Dube for hitting spinners.