'I took 13 wickets in 3 matches. What more do you want?': Kohli, Shastri not spared as Shami reignites 2019 WC debate

[Lord]

3 hours ago, Cloud said:

Bhuvi was played because of batting depth in 2019 SF and the decision at that moment wasn't wrong given the tough batting conditions. 

 

Yeah made a great 50

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Yeah made a great 50

Dhoni was one of main culprits for that defeat.He never showed any inclination either when Jadeja was scoring those runs.He screwed Indian team big time there.

 

Dhawan's injury also was big setback.

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Dhoni was one of main culprits for that defeat.He never showed any inclination either when Jadeja was scoring those runs.He screwed Indian team big time there.

 

Dhawan's injury also was big setback.

 

Yeah but Bhuvi was big fraud too. Even in those seaming conditions he couldnt take early wickets. Less said about batting the better. Didnt even try.

 

Shami was much better even then.

[putrevus]

Just now, Lord said:

 

Yeah but Bhuvi was big fraud too. Even in those seaming conditions he couldnt take early wickets. Less said about batting the better. Didnt even try.

 

Shami was much better even then.

Bhuvi has been the biggest fraud in indian cricket.He was screwing Indian team even 2022 semifinals also.

 

With him taking early wickets was alien concept.

 

 

[Ultimate_Game]

25 minutes ago, putrevus said:

2017 finals loss was on bowlers and not on bowling first .Bowling first decision was made when SL chased 321 with ease against Bumrah and co one the same ground.

 

Umesh leaked  67 runs in that match and was rightly left out.

 

Then we all know what happened with Bumrah and his noball in finals.

 

Bowlers sucked but it was due to the decision to bat first on patta. The SL game was a group game and not the final. Nearly everyone knows that chasing in a group stage is nowhere close to the pressure of chasing in a final. Secondly, the opponent was SL in group stage and in the final opponent was Pak. Again, it's a known thing that Pak struggle to chase anything par or over par, and are notoriously poor chasers. Their strength has always been bowling and putting runs on the board. Why would you ask Pak to bat first in a final, especially ODI? In T20s I can still understand but in a ODI, it's a no-brainer.

 

Thirdly, dropping Umesh for final based on performance against SL is again idiotic. Pak are known to struggle against pace, and the decision is similar to dropping Shami in 2019 WC SF just because he leaked runs against Eng in the last group match. This is anti-Gretzky, i.e. instead of going where the puck is going to be, you're skating to where the puck was. In other words, Kohli was reactive with his decisions ignoring the opponent and conditions. This poor decision making has plagued him throughout similar to going with 2 spinners in WTC final with rain & seaming conditions around when NZ went with 0 spinners.

 

At some point Kohli has to be accountable for team selection. It can't always be "poor bowling, poor batting by rest of the team" etc. Team selection for the match and decision at the toss has to be the captain. And Kohli has left a lot to be desired with his decision making across 2017 CT, 2019 WC SF and WTC Final.

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

Bowlers sucked but it was due to the decision to bat first on patta. The SL game was a group game and not the final. Nearly everyone knows that chasing in a group stage is nowhere close to the pressure of chasing in a final. Secondly, the opponent was SL in group stage and in the final opponent was Pak. Again, it's a known thing that Pak struggle to chase anything par or over par, and are notoriously poor chasers. Their strength has always been bowling and putting runs on the board. Why would you ask Pak to bat first in a final, especially ODI? In T20s I can still understand but in a ODI, it's a no-brainer.

 

Thirdly, dropping Umesh for final based on performance against SL is again idiotic. Pak are known to struggle against pace, and the decision is similar to dropping Shami in 2019 WC SF just because he leaked runs against Eng in the last group match. This is anti-Gretzky, i.e. instead of going where the puck is going to be, you're skating to where the puck was. In other words, Kohli was reactive with his decisions ignoring the opponent and conditions. This poor decision making has plagued him throughout similar to going with 2 spinners in WTC final with rain & seaming conditions around when NZ went with 0 spinners.

 

At some point Kohli has to be accountable for team selection. It can't always be "poor bowling, poor batting by rest of the team" etc. Team selection for the match and decision at the toss has to be the captain. And Kohli has left a lot to be desired with his decision making across 2017 CT, 2019 WC SF and WTC Final.

You are out of you mind and wrong as usual.They bowled first in that 2017 semifinals and bowled out England .Chased that total with ease.

 

Pakistan batted first in 2022 t20 finals , what did they score there.

 

I don't blame team selections on either Kohli or Rohit in recent losses either in test finals. Not selecting Ashwin in test finals on same ground was again right call.

 

It is easy to say after the fact to say that the players not selected are Bradmans and Marshalls.This team is so unbalanced, it is always a tough choice to pick and choose players.

 

Bumrah has been laying egg in all important matches till now. He laid giant egg along with usual cultprit Bhuvi there.

 

 When SL chased 321 could 330 been chased, then answer is yes but they lost too many wickets upfront.

 

Winning a tournament  needs some luck too. 

[New guy]

20 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are out of you mind and wrong as usual.They bowled first in that 2017 semifinals and bowled out England .Chased that total with ease.

 

Pakistan batted first in 2022 t20 finals , what did they score there.

 

I don't blame team selections on either Kohli or Rohit in recent losses either in test finals. Not selecting Ashwin in test finals on same ground was again right call.

 

It is easy to say after the fact to say that the players not selected are Bradmans and Marshalls.This team is so unbalanced, it is always a tough choice to pick and choose players.

 

Bumrah has been laying egg in all important matches till now. He laid giant egg along with usual cultprit Bhuvi there.

 

 When SL chased 321 could 330 been chased, then answer is yes but they lost too many wickets upfront.

 

Winning a tournament  needs some luck too. 

Do you know how many times 300 has been chased in world cup and CT finals? ZERO.  Do you know how many times 250 has been chased? ONCE. It's almost impossible to chase a score in a big final unless it's like the Gujarat pitch. It was anreeally stupid decision to chase on a flat track, just like in 2003 WC final. 

 

Bhuvi had figurer of 44 for 1 in 10 when the opposition scored 338. 

 

 

Of course you don't blame Kohli, how will a blind cult follower blame his master? You didn't need to specify that. 

 

You will blame and attack every other player except your master. Very loyal indeed. 

[Ultimate_Game]

37 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are out of you mind and wrong as usual.They bowled first in that 2017 semifinals and bowled out England .Chased that total with ease.

 

Pakistan batted first in 2022 t20 finals , what did they score there.

 

I don't blame team selections on either Kohli or Rohit in recent losses either in test finals. Not selecting Ashwin in test finals on same ground was again right call.

 

It is easy to say after the fact to say that the players not selected are Bradmans and Marshalls.This team is so unbalanced, it is always a tough choice to pick and choose players.

 

Bumrah has been laying egg in all important matches till now. He laid giant egg along with usual cultprit Bhuvi there.

 

 When SL chased 321 could 330 been chased, then answer is yes but they lost too many wickets upfront.

 

Winning a tournament  needs some luck too. 

 

Do you know the pitch on which SF was played? It was a slowish pitch and Eng barely managed 200. The final was being played on a fresh pitch which was supposed to be full of runs. Given that in a final anything over 250 is a huge hurdle to overcome. And this is doubly so when the chasing team is Pakistan.

 

I'm wrong only in the heads of Kohli fanboys who blame every fault of his on others - other batsmen, bowlers, luck, one bad day etc. Somehow it's never Kohli's fault but everyone else's  And to get more clarity who's wrong, why not open a poll and ask whether Kohli was right or wrong in deciding to bowl first in the CT final, and you'll get your answer.

[IndianRenegade]

Our love for tundlers one of the reasons we lost 2019 along with atrocious selection & old MSD.

[R!TTER]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

You are out of you mind and wrong as usual.They bowled first in that 2017 semifinals and bowled out England .Chased that total with ease.

So you're saying he was *ing scared of facing Amir & Co on a flat deck in a day game 

 

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

I don't blame team selections on either Kohli or Rohit in recent losses either in test finals. Not selecting Ashwin in test finals on same ground was again right call.

That's BS, you back your match winners & back them to the hilt! Otherwise why the * was Kohli playing in the WT20 finals? Umesh & Shami both are a cut above when it comes to taking wickets in ODI's dropping one or both for the 2017 CT, 2019 WC was a BS move but typical of brain dead Kohli 

 

Primary team India

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Trophy World Cup

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 10

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
Mohammed Shami	2015-2023	18	18	145.0	13	744	55	7/57	13.52	5.13	15.8	4	4
UT Yadav	2015-2015	8	8	64.2	5	321	18	4/31	17.83	4.98	21.4	2	0
Z Khan	2011-2011	9	9	81.3	4	394	21	3/20	18.76	4.83	23.2	0	0
JJ Bumrah	2019-2023	20	20	175.5	18	744	38	4/39	19.57	4.23	27.7	2	0
MM Sharma	2015-2015	8	8	63.0	4	314	13	3/48	24.15	4.98	29.0	0	0
Yuvraj Singh	2011-2011	9	9	75.0	2	377	15	5/31	25.13	5.02	30.0	0	1
R Ashwin	2011-2023	11	11	107.0	7	457	18	4/25	25.38	4.27	35.6	1	0
B Kumar	2015-2019	7	7	56.4	1	288	11	3/43	26.18	5.08	30.9	0	0
RA Jadeja	2015-2023	21	21	180.1	4	829	27	5/33	30.70	4.60	40.0	0	1
MM Patel	2011-2011	8	8	65.5	1	353	11	4/48	32.09	5.36	35.9	1	0
Mohammed Siraj	2023-2023	11	11	82.3	6	469	14	3/16	33.50	5.68	35.3	0	0

 

 

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Bumrah has been laying egg in all important matches till now. He laid giant egg along with usual cultprit Bhuvi there.

Yes that's why Shami &/or Umesh should've been picked instead of Bhukhe or Behaal, gee I wonder why no one thought of that 

 

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Winning a tournament  needs some luck too. 

 When you're not doing basic things, i.e. selections, right you don't deserve good luck!

Edited July 22, 2024 by R!TTER

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

So you're saying he was *ing scared of facing Amir & Co on a flat deck in a day game 

 

That's BS, you back your match winners & back them to the hilt! Otherwise why the * was Kohli playing in the WT20 finals? Umesh & Shami both are a cut above when it comes to taking wickets in ODI's dropping one or both for the 2017 CT, 2019 WC was a BS move but typical of brain dead Kohli 

 

Primary team India

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 2010

Trophy World Cup

Qualifications wickets taken greater than or equal to 10

Ordered by bowling average (ascending)

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Ave	Econ	SR	4	5
Mohammed Shami	2015-2023	18	18	145.0	13	744	55	7/57	13.52	5.13	15.8	4	4
UT Yadav	2015-2015	8	8	64.2	5	321	18	4/31	17.83	4.98	21.4	2	0
Z Khan	2011-2011	9	9	81.3	4	394	21	3/20	18.76	4.83	23.2	0	0
JJ Bumrah	2019-2023	20	20	175.5	18	744	38	4/39	19.57	4.23	27.7	2	0
MM Sharma	2015-2015	8	8	63.0	4	314	13	3/48	24.15	4.98	29.0	0	0
Yuvraj Singh	2011-2011	9	9	75.0	2	377	15	5/31	25.13	5.02	30.0	0	1
R Ashwin	2011-2023	11	11	107.0	7	457	18	4/25	25.38	4.27	35.6	1	0
B Kumar	2015-2019	7	7	56.4	1	288	11	3/43	26.18	5.08	30.9	0	0
RA Jadeja	2015-2023	21	21	180.1	4	829	27	5/33	30.70	4.60	40.0	0	1
MM Patel	2011-2011	8	8	65.5	1	353	11	4/48	32.09	5.36	35.9	1	0
Mohammed Siraj	2023-2023	11	11	82.3	6	469	14	3/16	33.50	5.68	35.3	0	0

 

 

Yes that's why Shami &/or Umesh should've been picked instead of Bhukhe or Behaal, gee I wonder why no one thought of that 

 

 When you're not doing basic things, i.e. selections, right you don't deserve good luck!

What kind of nonsense are you spouting.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2024 by putrevus

[R!TTER]

The same non sense you're making up! You don't bowl first in a day game unless the conditions will get much better to bat on in the second innings, likewise with wicket takers in Shami/Umesh - if you haven't prayed at Brat's altar today you should probably do that first before making other BS defence of his tactics or selections  

Edited July 22, 2024 by R!TTER

[deathmonger]

14 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

He was a last minute pick both for the 2022 T20 wc and the 2023 odi wc. Pandya's injury was a blessing. Tms seem to always underrate him in white ball cricket for some reason. 

tbh pandya-shami both make first xi.

 

in the 23 final it should have been pandya in place of surya and siraj maybe replaced with ashwin/axar.

[kruiser]

The biggest mistake they did was to not have future vision.. hindsight is always 20:20. 

Success has a lot of fathers, but if you lose...

No one wants to lose in finals, so coach and captain do what they think is best. If it clicks, they are hailed as great strategists. If it fails, unki maa behen yaad dialyee jati hai... even in the T20 WC if sky had not caught it.. or misbah had cleared short fineleg, it would be a different story.

Just enjoy the game, relish the wins and move on! Post mortem mein to bhagwaan ki bhi galti nikal aayegi 

[wanted_desi]

Kohli Captain years were missed year. All those poor decisions, and trying failures again and again. Thank god he is not the captain. Rohit would have moved our cricket up by some if he was given it instead of Kohli. 

[Ultimate_Game]

13 minutes ago, wanted_desi said:

Kohli Captain years were missed year. All those poor decisions, and trying failures again and again. Thank god he is not the captain. Rohit would have moved our cricket up by some if he was given it instead of Kohli. 

 

Wish our selectors would've given the captaincy to Rohit instead of Kohli... would've had a couple more titles. At the very least he wouldn't have made those bone-headed selections. You can fault Rohit for deteriorating fitness, and waning reflexes, but you can't fault him for intent and doing the best for the team. No ego issues and got everyone to pull in the same direction.

 

Under Kohli the team was always ready to implode similar to RCB. And whenever he wasn't with the team - 2020-21 series in Aus or 2017-18 Test against Aus where Kuldeep made his debut - the team actually looked so much better.

[gattaca]

4 hours ago, putrevus said:

What kind of nonsense are you spouting.

 

 

 

 

Kohli has taken emotional decisions and many of them. One of the reasons he couldn’t win a single cup as a captain. Dhoni and sharma are better in decision making and have won cups because of it. 

[Tillu]

Ankit was a good and active poster on this forum. It's okay he made a few wrong predictions. You all chased him away from this forum because of that. He also used to strongly back Dube and Azam Khan.

[New guy]

6 hours ago, putrevus said:

What kind of nonsense are you spouting.

 

 

 

 

Go cry and attack every other player and lick kohlis feet some more. 

[New guy]

2 hours ago, wanted_desi said:

Kohli Captain years were missed year. All those poor decisions, and trying failures again and again. Thank god he is not the captain. Rohit would have moved our cricket up by some if he was given it instead of Kohli. 

I still believe Kohli was our Goat test captain and no other captain came close. Shamis comeback was under him and I don't think he would have done as well under anyone else.

 

This is the difference between LOI and test captaincy. LOI needs instinctive captains, captains who can react on the field and pull rabbits out of their hats. Captains who are comfortable changing plans, surprising people. Dhoni was great at this. Rohit also does this, holds back bowlers, tries different things. You can see this in their personalities too, they are cool, calm bit instinctive people who react well under pressure. 

 

But test needs long term planning and vision. Kohli is a person who focuses on a target and obsessively goes after it over a long term. You can see this in his fitness regime. Kohli had the vision to back fast bowlers even at home, bowlers like Shami and Ishant had great comebacks under him when they were average under Dhoni. Even Yadav looked better. Our pace bowlers were running through sides even at home. I remember our fast bowlers  took all format hat trick in one year or so. India was responsible for over 80% of concussion subs in tests at that time with our bowlers causing one sub per series (Yadav even caused 2 in the same match).

 

Kohli had a vision for tests and single handily brought a fast bowling revolution. We seem to have gone back to old times under Dravid/Rohit. 

Edited July 23, 2024 by New guy