Dilip Vengsarkar fumes at Jasprit Bumrah for picking matches on personal preferences

bowl_out · July 21, 2025

18 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

The * are you talking about? He ran him into ground back at home & the 4 tests before Sydney! Sydney was the shortest test that series IIRC.

The match where he was so overworked that he couldn't bowl in the 2nd innings. Don't remember if that was Sydney or some other venue

R!TTER · July 21, 2025

From what I remember he got injured in the second innings, though could be wrong on the specifics.

Bigg Brother · July 21, 2025

People need not to get offended as soon as someone starts having some opinion on Bumrah. Not only Bumrah, hardly any Indian bowlers are fit enough to play 5 test match series. It was TM who did blunder by revealing beforehand about Bumrah's availability for 3 tests only, It conveys message to ignorant people that he is picking tests matches for him to play while neglecting team's necessity which isn't true. Simple statement like "they will rotate the bowlers as the series progresses" would not have made so much fuss.

New guy · July 21, 2025

13 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said:

People need not to get offended as soon as someone starts having some opinion on Bumrah. Not only Bumrah, hardly any Indian bowlers are fit enough to play 5 test match series. It was TM who did blunder by revealing beforehand about Bumrah's availability for 3 tests only, It conveys message to ignorant people that he is picking tests matches for him to play while neglecting team's necessity which isn't true. Simple statement like "they will rotate the bowlers as the series progresses" would not have made so much fuss.

Once again, every team in history has protected out and out fast bowlers like akatar, lee, Archer.

So yes, people need to be offended when Indians have such low IQ takes on fast bowlers. No wonder we are a nation of trundelrs for ever. If we do not call out such stupid take no youngster will ever want to be fast bowler again in india.

We shouldn't need to mollycuddle stupid people.

Edited July 21, 2025 by New guy

New guy · July 21, 2025

1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

Does Archer sit out bowling in the second innings this often

Difficult to sit out second innings when you don't even play matches at all. Nice try though, brilliant logic where not playing at all is better than bowling in one innings

Downtown · July 21, 2025

We Indians under-celebrate our heroes. Especially someone like Bumrah.

If Bumrah had played for Pakistan, they’d have built a damn statue next to their cricket board.

Named a battalion after him.

He’d be their Army chief by now. Haha!

But here, we ask: “Is Bumrah picking and choosing his matches?”

Yes he is.

That’s not a crime. It’s called longevity management.

Here’s what IS a crime: Acting like Bumrah’s absence is the reason India loses.

But there are ten other players on that field.

And most days, they’re playing like damn extras .

Bumrah has 2, maybe 3 good years left in international cricket.

So, shut up and celebrate him.

Stop waiting for him to retire before you recognize what you had.

Because, there was no one like him before.

And there won’t be anyone like him again.

Not in India.

Not in world cricket.

And years from now, when cricket historians talk about GOAT bowlers, they’ll say just one name!

Remember it.

express bowling · July 21, 2025

I would rather have Bumrah play 3 tests out of 5 than 0 tests out of 5.

I would rather have Bumrah bowling full tilt and with fire in 3 tests out of 5 than bowling within himself in 5 tests out of 5.

I would rather have Bumrah fully fit and available in the upcoming big series / tournament by playing 3 tests out of 5 .. rather than him missing the upcoming big series / tournament due to an injury after playing 5 tests out of 5.

I would rather have a positive and energetic Bumrah in the matches he plays ... rather than a tired Bumrah in every match.

Our problem is that we have not created a system which produces or promotes fast bowlers averaging 25 or less in tests or even ODIs.

We do everything in our power to select mediocre, low ceiling pacers at every level.

And then we blame and over-bowl the only pacer who is wayyy above the rest.

Complete lack of vision !!

vvvslaxman · July 21, 2025

We are not living in Karsan Ghavri, madanlal, Balwinder singh sandhu era anymore. We are striving to produce strike bowlers with good strike rates. If we are going to turn them into old timer who would slog without worrying about alarming dip in performance each session.

Lord · July 21, 2025

You can't use Ferrari the same way as a Maruti

vvvslaxman · July 21, 2025

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

You can't use Ferrari the same way as a Maruti

He has the second highest strike rate in history among 200 plus wicket takers despite not being from SENA. Using him as a work hourse will be massively counter productive.

Ultimate_Game · July 21, 2025

9 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

PR army would have trolled these guys mercilessly.

If you're scared of PR armies and trolls then don't say anything. Why bag Bumrah and sit scared in a corner when it's Kohli and Rohit?

Ultimate_Game · July 21, 2025

8 hours ago, R!TTER said:

The * are you talking about? He ran him into ground back at home & the 4 tests before Sydney! Sydney was the shortest test that series IIRC.

Unlike you I don't have opportunistic dementia old man. I have been highly critical of BRat since forever, even during his golden run in 2018 - I constantly pointed out how we'd skip key practice games in SA, due to his wedding, then Eng as well. He also threw in an in form KL/Rahane out of the team for no reason to bring in thigh slapper(opener) & RGS in the middle order for no *ing reason with disastrous consequences! You don't remember that, or any of the dumb*s here? I said back then as well that having (job)security around your position was critical to good/consistent performances. That *er literally destroyed our middle order which was doing fairly well in 2016-17 albeit at home.

RGS was no better and I was never a fan of this playing on "raging turners" approach at home, unlike half the sub 20 hormonal bottle jobs here.

I was talking about Vengsarkar and other commies/analysts taking shots at Bumrah but staying quiet when it was the star batters, not you.

StraightDrive26 · July 22, 2025

People like Lillie, Ambrose and quite a few others did not play much in the subcontinent during their prime. Curtly Ambrose out of his 98 Tests only has 6 Tests in the subcontinent, none in India. Same with Lillie who played only 4 of his 70 Tests in the subcontinent. Those bowlers knew that playing in the subcontinent will be useless and hardly played there. Vengsarkar was from that era and just because we had Kapil Dev does not mean every bowler can be like him. Remember when Srinath was the only good pacer in the 90's and Sachin bowled him to the ground during his tenure as captain. Srinath missed couple of years of his prime when he was bowling the quickest. The biggest series being the 1997 tour of WI where India missed him dearly and we had to play with Kuruvilla, Dodda Ganesh etc. India lost the series 1-0 which India could have won if Srinath had played in Barbados, the test we lost. On a pitch which had lots of bounce our backup pacers to Prasad in the first innings were horrible which let West Indies to competitive total of 298.

India cannot make the same mistake with Bumrah. At least I am happy that Bumrah is a self aware cricketer who knows his body. Those days players were not that aware of biomechanics etc. Bowlers like Srinath could have contributed much more if they had more knowledge. Not every one can be Kapil Dev who I feel may have played a lot of games with injuries. No one will ever know. Bowling exhaustion of playing every game for your country because you don't have anyone to back you up possibly cost Kapil a lot. His sharp decline in the second half of his Test career which pushed his average close to 30 shows that he wasn't as fit as people thought him to be. He may have bowled lots of overs but his speed came down and he wasn't as effective as he was in the first half of his career. All this because the Indian teams did not know how to manage their bowlers.

Bumrah cannot be compared to Cummins and Rabada as well. Cummins and Rabada have great backup bowlers which Bumrah does not after Shami and Ishant. So all the former players need to shut up as they were part of the team management which ruined the careers of some of best fast bowlers we had. We could have gotten much out of them if only we knew how to manage them in their prime. I still get angry on how Srinath was handled during the 1996-1998 phase when he was bowling the fastest. Srinath missed better part of a year or 2 due to shoulder Injury. The amount of bowling he was doing in the England and South Africa tours meant that he broke down before the West Indies series of 1997. Remember in the 90's India played a lot of ODIs which Srinath was a part of as well.

vvvslaxman · July 22, 2025

1 hour ago, StraightDrive26 said:

People like Lillie, Ambrose and quite a few others did not play much in the subcontinent during their prime. Curtly Ambrose out of his 98 Tests only has 6 Tests in the subcontinent, none in India. Same with Lillie who played only 4 of his 70 Tests in the subcontinent. Those bowlers knew that playing in the subcontinent will be useless and hardly played there. Vengsarkar was from that era and just because we had Kapil Dev does not mean every bowler can be like him. Remember when Srinath was the only good pacer in the 90's and Sachin bowled him to the ground during his tenure as captain. Srinath missed couple of years of his prime when he was bowling the quickest. The biggest series being the 1997 tour of WI where India missed him dearly and we had to play with Kuruvilla, Dodda Ganesh etc. India lost the series 1-0 which India could have won if Srinath had played in Barbados, the test we lost. On a pitch which had lots of bounce our backup pacers to Prasad in the first innings were horrible which let West Indies to competitive total of 298.

India cannot make the same mistake with Bumrah. At least I am happy that Bumrah is a self aware cricketer who knows his body. Those days players were not that aware of biomechanics etc. Bowlers like Srinath could have contributed much more if they had more knowledge. Not every one can be Kapil Dev who I feel may have played a lot of games with injuries. No one will ever know. Bowling exhaustion of playing every game for your country because you don't have anyone to back you up possibly cost Kapil a lot. His sharp decline in the second half of his Test career which pushed his average close to 30 shows that he wasn't as fit as people thought him to be. He may have bowled lots of overs but his speed came down and he wasn't as effective as he was in the first half of his career. All this because the Indian teams did not know how to manage their bowlers.

Bumrah cannot be compared to Cummins and Rabada as well. Cummins and Rabada have great backup bowlers which Bumrah does not after Shami and Ishant. So all the former players need to shut up as they were part of the team management which ruined the careers of some of best fast bowlers we had. We could have gotten much out of them if only we knew how to manage them in their prime. I still get angry on how Srinath was handled during the 1996-1998 phase when he was bowling the fastest. Srinath missed better part of a year or 2 due to shoulder Injury. The amount of bowling he was doing in the England and South Africa tours meant that he broke down before the West Indies series of 1997. Remember in the 90's India played a lot of ODIs which Srinath was a part of as well.

Irfan pathan had a bit of pace when he started. The way he uprooted Gilly on his debut series was breath taking. But in the next series 19 year old Irfan pathan bowled 44 overs on a flat road. Over a period he lost his action. He was a gifted all rounder. Instead of sharpening him we just blunted him not knowing how to handle. Same way Balaji in 8 matches he played bowled close to 300 overs. Picked up stress fracture. Never seen him again in whites

Edited July 22, 2025 by vvvslaxman

Lord · July 22, 2025

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Irfan pathan had a bit of pace when he started. The way he uprooted Gilly on his debut series was breath taking. But in the next series 19 year old Irfan pathan bowled 44 overs on a flat road. Over a period he lost his action. He was a gifted all rounder. Instead of sharpening him we just blunted him not knowing how to handle. Same way Balaji in 8 matches he played bowled close to 300 overs. Picked up stress fracture. Never seen him again in whites

This is why I always want 5 bowling options. Those days we used to play only 4 and part timers did not bowl much.

vvvslaxman · July 22, 2025

43 minutes ago, Lord said:

This is why I always want 5 bowling options. Those days we used to play only 4 and part timers did not bowl much.

correct. England for 20 years keep going on and on about that 2005 series where they had 4 seamers. It required Mcgrath's absence, bit of luck, more important 4 pronged pace attack (Flintoff, Simon Jones, Harmison, Hoggard) which allowed them to attack all the time. In the 90s SA had Donald, Fanie De villiers, Schtulz, Pringle, MCcUllum all rounder. They used to bowl teams out for real low scores.

singhvivek141 · July 22, 2025

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

Our problem is that we have not created a system which produces or promotes fast bowlers averaging 25 or less in tests or even ODIs.

We do everything in our power to select mediocre, low ceiling pacers at every level.

And then we blame and over-bowl the only pacer who is wayyy above the rest.

Complete lack of vision !!

This...this is the vicious cycle which these ex-cricketers should talk about.

I mean no disrespect for Mr. Vengasarkar, but he is unfortunately barking at the wrong tree. The question shouldn't be why Bumrah is picking and playing matches as per his personal preference. Question should be why BCCI and our domestic setup is so incompetent that it is unable to produce another Mohammad Shami, if not Bumrah ?

I know some people will point the fingers onto Australia trio, but they key thing is they're a "trio". They're able to sustain the pressure without running them to the ground. We had this golden period when we had Bumrah, Shami, Ishant, Umesh as our four horsemen. Where are the next gen pacers ? No one has a goddamn clue.

Yeah, Bumrah will pick and choose the games because if he doesn't and gets injured. We would be looking at an extended period of 6 months to 1.5 years where we will have no quality pacer down the road. Incidents like Gabba don't happen everyday, they're an exception, not a convention. We can't just survive for Bumrah's injury period hoping on exceptions.

Fix the system, Mr. Vengasarkar; and if you can't, then atleast raise your voice against right people. Blaming everything on low hanging fruits ain't gonna help.

coffee_rules · July 22, 2025

19 hours ago, express bowling said:

I would rather have Bumrah play 3 tests out of 5 than 0 tests out of 5.

I would rather have Bumrah bowling full tilt and with fire in 3 tests out of 5 than bowling within himself in 5 tests out of 5.

I would rather have Bumrah fully fit and available in the upcoming big series / tournament by playing 3 tests out of 5 .. rather than him missing the upcoming big series / tournament due to an injury after playing 5 tests out of 5.

I would rather have a positive and energetic Bumrah in the matches he plays ... rather than a tired Bumrah in every match.

Our problem is that we have not created a system which produces or promotes fast bowlers averaging 25 or less in tests or even ODIs.

We do everything in our power to select mediocre, low ceiling pacers at every level.

And then we blame and over-bowl the only pacer who is wayyy above the rest.

Complete lack of vision !!

We have seen many phaast bowlers who bowl fast initially and get "coached" to focus on L&L by the bowling coaches, even at state level.

Need to change that mindset. Give bowlers assurance that they should bowl in control in 140-150 and insurance that any injury will be taken care of.

Many like Varun, Tyagi, Saini, Umran, Mayank .. all have been badly trained and gone injured.

Edited July 22, 2025 by coffee_rules

MechEng · July 22, 2025

If Vengsarkar managed Bumrah, he would have turned him into a off spin version of Kumble within 2 years.

Bumrah would then be bowling within 122-131 kph range with a surprise slower delivery at 98 kph.

vvvslaxman · July 22, 2025

4 hours ago, MechEng said:

If Vengsarkar managed Bumrah, he would have turned him into a off spin version of Kumble within 2 years.

Bumrah would then be bowling within 122-131 kph range with a surprise slower delivery at 98 kph.

INdia has finally found the formula to win overseas matches. These oldies can't stand that. He wants to go back to the days where India could not win a single test in Australia despite uttely dominating the series in 1985. They didn't have bowlers to bowl them out.

hu, 12 Dec '85

RESULT •

1st Test • Adelaide, December 13 - 17, 1985, India tour of Australia

Australia

381 & 17/0

India

520

Match drawn

Summary

Series

Wed, 25 Dec '85

RESULT •