Is it time for the unthinkable?

[Chaos]

First, I was a fan of trump. But during his second term, I can see hatred in this country towards more Indians (personally not me, but transitional indian community). 
 

I really think Indo-chi-rus (ICR) will form. USA has betrayed India for far too long. China would love to have india on their side alongside russia. That would be THREE absolute super-powers that would bring world order at this point. I know we have differences with China, but times like these would bring an enemy as your ally.

 

Thoughts?

Edited August 16, 2025 by Chaos

[rangeelaraja]

It will never happen. China seeks domination which India will never accept.  Russia is willing to play second fiddle to China. India will NEVER

 

Not only because India is as much or a greater civilization than China.

 

Indian civilization has exerted massive influence globally, surpassing that of China, for over 2000 years.

 

Consider Southeast Asia, China's immediate neighbor. Countries like Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia, and the Philippines, despite China's direct land access for thousands of years.

 

Yet what we observe is Southeast Asia predominantly embraced Hinduism, Buddhism, or, in cases like Indonesia and Malaysia, Islam—often introduced by Indian Muslim traders from India's west coast alongside Arab merchants. Their writing systems Thai, Khmer, Lao, and Indonesian derive from devanagri scripts, not Chinese ones.

 

The Cholas spread Vedic culture, tradition, language, cuisine, arts, literature...EVERYTHING , around China's peripheral countries. 

 

China knows and fears India's civilization strength - and knows by the turn of the century India will be MUCH  bigger than China if the current trajectory continues 

 

China also knows its demography is a massive massive weakness - it has self destroyed it with its short term thinking. Despite many incentives since China abolished 1 child policy - China's fertility rate is 1  - means it will soon face a population decline and its median population will be around 52/53 per World Bank/  IMF estimates by 2050.

 

India will still be a young country with median age of 38 by 2050 and a MUCH large working population. 

 

China wishes to slow India down, cause fissures in the country and use Pakistan against us.

 

Unless CCP is overthrown - we can never ever have a trusted partnership with them.

 

[jf1gp_1]

If to be a friend of US is fatal then being friend of China is just as disastrous. I would rather go on my own than mistake having friendly relation with China 

[AuxiliA]

Indians/Hindus are soft targets for both the extreme Left and the extreme right. Nobody in the West fears us. 

 

We don't riot abroad like the Jihadis do to scare off the Gora RW. Nor have we convinced the leftists to raise our PoV, despite sucking up to the Leftists for most of our independent history. 

 

Many idiot Business houses like Mahindras, Ambanis, Tatas, etc keep giving hundreds of millions as donations to US universities like Harvard. But they still portray Hindus/India in the most ignorant way possible. 

 

Look what countries like China and Qatar have done with their money..Hell even a literal beggar country like Pak has better lobbying in USA than India..

 

 

[IndianRenegade]

We must stop with blaming others, else whatever group we end up in we will keep repeating the same mistakes. Yes, MAGA is essentially anti Indian, Trump is erratic but are they alone the reason for the current predicament? 

 

FIX MEA

 

1. LOBBY - US is India largest trading partner to the tune of 130B is total trade, we have about $24 billion in US weapon systems. Yet we are outspent 3-1 on lobbying efforts by pakistan which has a laughable trade of $7 billion? We expect Israel level support from US (at least from the moral front), but do we realize that they spend 30x on lobbying?  We have more to lose from trade to military equipment support, yet we act like lobbying is some dirty word & cry about (at least the so calle Indian defense influencers) Trump Pak Crypto deal. you seriously can't out bribe a bankrupt nation?

 

2. STOP BABU OBSESSION OVER NORMS - The trump admin 2.0 started with a push to sell F35s to India, granted it is US trying to sell to India. But considering so far this  hardware had been reserved for allies, they didn't start their admin wanting to intentionaly sabotage India relations. Either India rejecting their military hardware,  trade negotions or Op Sindhoor credit claims of trump is causing the fallout. There is some reporting that seems to suggest the latter, traditionally the norm of not acknowledging mediation exists for a reason. In normal US admins acknowledging mediation is construed as an opening to mediate the Kashmir problem. With trump nothing is normal, he is clearly looking to one up Obama's legacy & get the peace prize. he neither cares about Kashmir or has the patience to mediate a complex issue, just give him some credit OR AT LEAST don't directly contradict him. Our obsession with norms seems to have defeated the entire purpose of the Op & has emboldened Pak lunatic Military.

 

Putin whose men are being killed by US supplied weapons, some of which Trump sent in his second term, has no issues massaging trumps ego. Because Putin knows it helps achieve his goals, but we are too offended that Trump wants credit that we lose track of our strategic objectives & long term plans.

 

3. DON'T PUNCH ABOVE YOUR WEIGHT - didn't doval say this? we shouldn't punch below our weight or above our weight. We aren't even in China's weight category & doing ops in US to take out US citizens, that too dummy K gang who have neglible impact on ground? where is the risk reward?

 

US has been equally reponsible for the relationship to deteoriate, but we aren't an equal. if we end up in RIC, we will not be China's equal either, until we are we must bide our time & stop being easily offended. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2025 by IndianRenegade

[BacktoCricaddict]

21 minutes ago, IndianRenegade said:

We must stop with blaming others, else whatever group we end up in we will keep repeating the same mistakes. Yes, MAGA is essentially anti Indian, Trump is erratic but are they alone the reason for the current predicament? 

 

FIX MEA

 

1. LOBBY - US is India largest trading partner to the tune of 130B is total trade, we have about $24 billion in US weapon systems. Yet we are outspent 3-1 on lobbying efforts by pakistan which has a laughable trade of $7 billion? We expect Israel level support from US (at least from the moral front), but do we realize that they spend 30x on lobbying?  We have more to lose from trade to military equipment support, yet we act like lobbying is some dirty word & cry about (at least the so calle Indian defense influencers) Trump Pak Crypto deal. you seriously can't out bribe a bankrupt nation?

 

2. STOP BABU OBSESSION OVER NORMS - The trump admin 2.0 started with a push to sell F35s to India, granted it is US trying to sell to India. But considering so far this  hardware had been reserved for allies, they didn't start their admin wanting to intentionaly sabotage India relations. Either India rejecting their military hardware,  trade negotions or Op Sindhoor credit claims of trump is causing the fallout. There is some reporting that seems to suggest the latter, traditionally the norm of not acknowledging mediation exists for a reason. In normal US admins acknowledging mediation is construed as an opening to mediate the Kashmir problem. With trump nothing is normal, he is clearly looking to one up Obama's legacy & get the peace prize. he neither cares about Kashmir or has the patience to mediate a complex issue, just give him some credit OR AT LEAST don't directly contradict him. Our obsession with norms seems to have defeated the entire purpose of the Op & has emboldened Pak lunatic Military.

 

3. DON'T PUNCH ABOVE YOUR WEIGHT - didn't doval say this? we shouldn't punch below our weight or above our weight. We aren't even in China's weight category & doing ops in US to take out US citizens, that too dummy K gang who have neglible impact on ground? where is the risk reward?

 

US has been equally reponsible for the relationship to deteoriate, but we aren't an equal. if we end up in RIC, we will not be China's equal either, until we are we must bide our time & stop being easily offended. 

 

 

 

 

Excellent points. 

 

And if I may add one more thing: Stay laser focused on economic upliftment of all Indians, with an emphasis on indigenous research and intellectual property development. Cultural issues will automatically take care of themselves.

[IndianRenegade]

38 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Excellent points. 

 

And if I may add one more thing: Stay laser focused on economic upliftment of all Indians, with an emphasis on indigenous research and intellectual property development. Cultural issues will automatically take care of themselves.

Exactly even places like Kashmir where once all you heard about was protest & stone pelting seems to have relatively moved on with economic prosperity.

 

no one is coming to bail India out, so stop fighting amongst ourselves & Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Eliminate corruption & uplift ppl. 
 

if we could eliminate corruption that is so common to relatively rare, it would improve the quality of lives of millions. This alone could lead to better infrastructure & services.

Edited August 16, 2025 by IndianRenegade

[G_B_]

India will never be a vassal state. 

 

 

India buying russian oil making them less reliant on china it a long term objective india should encourage. If india buys 50% of oil from russia and 50% from a diverse countries then russia has options apart from china. Europe buying gas from Russia too allows them options

 

So this second fiddle to china? I dont think russians see it that way. 

 

India should oblige and route russian oil via europe outside the control of china. Even if expensive it is geopoltically important.

 

Remainder buy from gulf nigeria etc.

 

 

 

 

[gattaca]

2 hours ago, IndianRenegade said:

We must stop with blaming others, else whatever group we end up in we will keep repeating the same mistakes. Yes, MAGA is essentially anti Indian, Trump is erratic but are they alone the reason for the current predicament? 

 

FIX MEA

 

1. LOBBY - US is India largest trading partner to the tune of 130B is total trade, we have about $24 billion in US weapon systems. Yet we are outspent 3-1 on lobbying efforts by pakistan which has a laughable trade of $7 billion? We expect Israel level support from US (at least from the moral front), but do we realize that they spend 30x on lobbying?  We have more to lose from trade to military equipment support, yet we act like lobbying is some dirty word & cry about (at least the so calle Indian defense influencers) Trump Pak Crypto deal. you seriously can't out bribe a bankrupt nation?

 

2. STOP BABU OBSESSION OVER NORMS - The trump admin 2.0 started with a push to sell F35s to India, granted it is US trying to sell to India. But considering so far this  hardware had been reserved for allies, they didn't start their admin wanting to intentionaly sabotage India relations. Either India rejecting their military hardware,  trade negotions or Op Sindhoor credit claims of trump is causing the fallout. There is some reporting that seems to suggest the latter, traditionally the norm of not acknowledging mediation exists for a reason. In normal US admins acknowledging mediation is construed as an opening to mediate the Kashmir problem. With trump nothing is normal, he is clearly looking to one up Obama's legacy & get the peace prize. he neither cares about Kashmir or has the patience to mediate a complex issue, just give him some credit OR AT LEAST don't directly contradict him. Our obsession with norms seems to have defeated the entire purpose of the Op & has emboldened Pak lunatic Military.

 

Putin whose men are being killed by US supplied weapons, some of which Trump sent in his second term, has no issues massaging trumps ego. Because Putin knows it helps achieve his goals, but we are too offended that Trump wants credit that we lose track of our strategic objectives & long term plans.

 

3. DON'T PUNCH ABOVE YOUR WEIGHT - didn't doval say this? we shouldn't punch below our weight or above our weight. We aren't even in China's weight category & doing ops in US to take out US citizens, that too dummy K gang who have neglible impact on ground? where is the risk reward?

 

US has been equally reponsible for the relationship to deteoriate, but we aren't an equal. if we end up in RIC, we will not be China's equal either, until we are we must bide our time & stop being easily offended. 

 

 

 

 

 

Dont punch above your weight lol. Look at Israel they do this in US everyday and they harass US ambassadors in their own country and CIA agents. India is taking out known criminals. 

[gattaca]

53 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

India will never be a vassal state. 

 

 

India buying russian oil making them less reliant on china it a long term objective india should encourage. If india buys 50% of oil from russia and 50% from a diverse countries then russia has options apart from china. Europe buying gas from Russia too allows them options

 

So this second fiddle to china? I dont think russians see it that way. 

 

India should oblige and route russian oil via europe outside the control of china. Even if expensive it is geopoltically important.

 

Remainder buy from gulf nigeria etc.

 

 

 

 

 Biden was smart enough to understand this infact they encouraged India to buy oil and sell it to Europe. 

[Lone Wolf]

India needs USA for its Industrialisation phase... I think concessions will be made from Indian side in coming years.

Can't rule out an American base in North East if things needed to go to that extent.

 

But India won't be a vassal state like the kind of Japan SoKo Phillipines in Asia.

 

We have to be careful to juggle between China and US from time to time.

In between solve Pakistan problem once and for all (timeline has shrunk & window is getting smaller for it)

Edited August 16, 2025 by Lone Wolf

[Chaos]

Interesting next three years it will be

[coffee_rules]

More than India China coming together. China will do maa been to Pakistan for cozying up with Trump, offering them Baluch resources, while China has heavily invested in CPEC, Gwadar, etc. Trump bedding with Pak will turn his back on Pakistan after using them. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, gattaca said:

 Biden was smart enough to understand this infact they encouraged India to buy oil and sell it to Europe. 

Under JoeKam govt, India export to US jumped from 50 b to 77 b. > 50% increase in 4yrs.

 

But, but ... BD, "woke", Tulsi, Kash, deep state dismantler, free speech bastion, EVguru worships him ......  he luv us so much.

 

Hook line sinker

Edited August 16, 2025 by BacktoCricaddict

[G_B_]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

More than India China coming together. China will do maa been to Pakistan for cozying up with Trump, offering them Baluch resources, while China has heavily invested in CPEC, Gwadar, etc. Trump bedding with Pak will turn his back on Pakistan after using them. 

China knows usa outlook changes with president.

 

Ride out 4 years. I think india too will think same

[randomGuy]

3 hours ago, gattaca said:

 

Dont punch above your weight lol. Look at Israel they do this in US everyday and they harass US ambassadors in their own country and CIA agents. India is taking out known criminals. 

The guy needs his personal Jamvant to make him realise india had been punching below its weight and has only now started punch according to its weight..

[randomGuy]

2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Under JoeKam govt, India export to US jumped from 50 b to 77 b. > 50% increase in 4yrs.

 

But, but ... BD, "woke", Tulsi, Kash, deep state dismantler, free speech bastion, EVguru worships him ......  he luv us so much.

 

Hook line sinker

Have you seen those atrocities videos on Hindus in BD? Plenty of them were genuine. Biden administration is to be blamed for this directly.... Hindu ho? Agar anti-hindu atrocities se dil nahi paseejta to anti-Humanity acts se to paseejta hoga? Those were horrible things which happened.

[Lord]

China is far unreliable and dangerous than USA imo. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

Have you seen those atrocities videos on Hindus in BD? Plenty of them were genuine. Biden administration is to be blamed for this directly.... Hindu ho? Agar anti-hindu atrocities se dil nahi paseejta to anti-Humanity acts se to paseejta hoga? Those were horrible things which happened.

I am with you that the atrocities are unacceptable. But was this the only way to stop the atrocities? Were there no other levers that could have been pulled? 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2025 by BacktoCricaddict

[randomGuy]

On 8/16/2025 at 11:24 PM, BacktoCricaddict said:

I am with you that the atrocities are unacceptable. But was this the only way to stop the atrocities? Were there no other levers that could have been pulled? 

 

 

 

Trump has suddenly changed colours. Iirc he did say  after meeting modi on winning that modi will take care of BD. Even before winning iirc he tweeted on atrocities against BD Hindus. you have such clear cut distinction between candidates just 3-4 months before elections and the atrocities started only 3-4 months before elections (arnd July) it is obvious 90% indian Hindus and many American Hindus supported Trump...you are a senior on this forum as  well as an experienced person, this is just sad that we are having to discuss this because of your views, views of @cowboysfan .. And people like @mytwocents are just hopeless.

Edited August 18, 2025 by randomGuy