-Robin- Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Home conditions' date=' better used to pitches and the ball, [b']huge scores behind him, coming after their pacers have bowled well - all are factors. When you have all pacers leaking runs before you and from the other end, you tend to not be so attacking. @Bold than why they sucked in j'burg and wellington?
HIC_NAA Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 OK so Primary diff between Lyon and Ashwin is Top Spin. Lyon imparts top spin to deliveries whereas ashwin bowls side spin or you can has more loops while bowling. This was discussed by Channel 9 commentators during 2nd or 3rd test and as per them to be successful in Aus you have to bowl moe of top spin then side spin or impart more loops. Infact i feel Ashwin has bowled way better in this series or in last England test
CoverDrive Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 new guy from SA Harmer is also decent. found him similar to lyon.
Insidious Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 What India's spinners are doing wrong As someone who watched the great Indian offspinners of the past from close quarters, it is frustrating to watch their modern contemporaries failing to follow some of the basic principles of the discipline. Before I go into the specifics of the offspin bowling on view in Sydney, with particular reference to India's R Ashwin, I will venture a sweeping statement about Indian bowlers, one that I'll be delighted to be corrected about. On the evidence of the last eight to ten matches I have watched, they give the impression that they do not practise bowling enough. The evidence - circumstantial, I admit - is there for all to see, as they spray the ball around match after match with seemingly no control over length and line. My suspicion was strengthened by what I heard from someone who followed the team around in England and was witness to their practice routine: a lot of gym work and physical training on the field, but not much bowling in the nets. This is in sharp contrast to the way Indian bowlers in the 1970s and '80s trained. Spinners and fast bowlers bowled for hours at the nets. Not only does inadequate net practice make you inaccurate in a match, it also denies you the confidence you need to go all out to bowl in an attacking mode, because you are not sure you can land the ball where you want it. You can only play safe then by, for instance, choosing to push the ball through innocuously with greater confidence rather than trying to spin it sharply. Nathan Lyon of Australia shows much more self-belief than others of his ilk, as did Graeme Swann not long ago. Both give the impression of being well-oiled machines, evidently well primed before they bowl the first ball in a match. Unfortunately even Lyon does not demonstrate great skill or common sense when bowling to left-handers, choosing to go round the wicket the moment one arrives at the crease. Ashwin, too, is guilty of this seeming lack of application of mind when it comes to bowling to left-handers. Prasanna and Venkataraghavan (and Harbhajan Singh, too) seldom slipped up like this. They preferred to bowl an annoyingly constraining leg-and-middle line to left-handers, to a field that included a slip and gully (or a lone slip after the batsman had settled down and the wicket was not doing much), and always with a forward short-leg waiting for the bat-pad catch. It took a left-hander extraordinarily strong off his pads to force them to go round the wicket. A left-hand batsman will normally feel much more comfortable facing an offspinner coming round the wicket than otherwise. So when does an offspinner go round the wicket? Mainly to right-handers. Here again, you don't have to look beyond Prasanna and Venkataraghavan. Except when they occasionally did so just to break the monotony of bowling to well-set batsmen, they went round mainly to force the batsman to play, on wickets yielding turn and perhaps bounce. That way, they also reduced the angle and enhanced the chance of lbw decisions, which excessive turn could negate from over the wicket. Two cardinal rules while bowling from round the stumps to right-handers: always have a man at slip, and never change your line. Stick to the off stump or outside it, except when you push one through with the arm from middle to off for an attempt at a clean-bowled or slip catch. The trick is to induce false shots by sticking to the same line and length but altering the angle of delivery. Going round the wicket also often works against batsmen strong on the sweep. I have seen many such batsmen top-edge catches against this angle of attack. Watching the Indian bowlers in Sydney, it is difficult indeed to believe that they are sure of their length and direction, or that they have the confidence to bowl to get wickets. The only time they seem to bowl attackingly is when they bowl short - with disappointing results. In addition to resorting to modern tools of analysis and training, I am sure India's bowlers can benefit from watching videos of former greats or seeking their advice. Ashwin, for one, could be a transformed bowler if he approaches Prasanna or Venkataraghavan for guidance and puts into practice some of their lessons. They could help him improve his finish and follow-through, for instance. I'm sure they are just a text message away. http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/817777.html
gakgupta Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 now....who in india have a classical action and has the ability to be successful in all conditions esp..Test matches? I know for sure that jadeja / ashwin / askshar are all ODI players....not good for test macthes away from sub-continent
Cricket_Hacker Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 now....who in india have a classical action and has the ability to be successful in all conditions esp..Test matches? I know for sure that jadeja / ashwin / askshar are all ODI players....not good for test macthes away from sub-continent i have seen only Parvez Rasool who bowls with a clean action,flights the ball,doesnt dart etc ,he should get chance in home tests as third spinners since Ojha is suspended,but i fear they will choose IPL superstar Axar
rkt.india Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 OK so Primary diff between Lyon and Ashwin is Top Spin. Lyon imparts top spin to deliveries whereas ashwin bowls side spin or you can has more loops while bowling. This was discussed by Channel 9 commentators during 2nd or 3rd test and as per them to be successful in Aus you have to bowl moe of top spin then side spin or impart more loops. Infact i feel Ashwin has bowled way better in this series or in last England test Ashwin also doesn't have a conventional seam position. His seam more points towards square leg than fine leg, so, he gets less off break than Lyon. Bhajji had the same issue in his later years.
express bowling Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 The biggest problem with our spinners is that they do not impart sufficient revs on the ball. They do not use their body enough while bowling. I wonder how much of this is due to them being not serious about bowling and not putting enough effort. Most of our bowlers, whether pacers or spinners, don't look like they have any interest in the art of bowling.
f.b.m Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Ashwin also doesn't have a conventional seam position. His seam more points towards square leg than fine leg' date=' so, he gets less off break than Lyon. Bhajji had the same issue in his later years.[/quote'] He can bowl with more overspin but generally doesn't control that very well.
Lord Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 The biggest problem with our spinners is that they do not impart sufficient revs on the ball. They do not use their body enough while bowling. I wonder how much of this is due to them being not serious about bowling and not putting enough effort. Most of our bowlers, whether pacers or spinners, don't look like they have any interest in the art of bowling. ++
nevada Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I remember Raju too used to give it a rip or was it Joshi? The point is I feel all these mystery balls for T20 and line and length crap. Thats not to say Lyon is world class. Did not do well in the UAE. Even Shane warne sucked in India which is supposed to help spinners but prospered in Aus. There must be some other factors involved. This is why we need a foreign spinning coach. Somebody like say a Swann who knows how to operate outside the sub The BCCI can appoint temporary bowling consultants for different tours, based on conditions. So for Aus tour, appoint someone like McGill, Swann for England tour, etc.
Vijy Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I feel Parvez Rasool would have done better than Ashwin who is also a classical off spinner and could have used rough better than Ashwin. I think Rassool would have done better too - would have scored the 20-odd runs that Ashwin contributed too.
Number Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I think he better bowler in tests. Also the support he gets from the pacers can't be compared with our chaman pacers, that gives him freedom to attack, pitch the ball up. If any of our spinners would have got hit for 2 sixes like that, he would gone back to bowling short. Lyon was still pitching it up.
Old guy Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Didn't lyon struggle in uae? And looked fairly useless for most part in India .. Maybe he just knows how to bowl here better than our guys which is expected .
coffee_rules Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Ashwin sucks bowling spin in kookaburra balls. SG balls used in India spin better.
Old guy Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Ashwin sucks bowling spin in kookaburra balls. SG balls used in India spin better. That might be it ..
Vijy Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Didn't lyon struggle in uae? And looked fairly useless for most part in India .. Maybe he just knows how to bowl here better than our guys which is expected . He did well in the 4th test in India - only bowler to take some wickets there.
Old guy Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 He did well in the 4th test in India - only bowler to take some wickets there. That was just bad track otherwise he struggled through out and was even dropped vs England in first ashes test :winky:
SLICKR392 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Yeah, Kotla was a crazy bad surface. Was thrashed around on helpful wickets.
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