Kuptaan's Foolhardy Bravado leads India into the abyss

[Ankit_sharma03]

28 minutes ago, Texan said:

Well, I wasn't pleased with the batting selections either. I think Murali Vijay is a Must Have in the Test team. He should have played instead of Dhawan. Also, between Pujara and Rohit, Pujara seems a better player, but on current Test form, even Pujara is not really setting the World on fire or so. Against better teams especially away from home, this batting lineup may struggle. We need the solidity of Vijay at the top of the innings. 

 

On the other side, we have to also give credit to Kohli for the bowling selections. Picking BK was a masterful move. Jadeja also kept the pressure on and seemed to have done better than what Mishra was providing in this series. The bowling selections definitely paid dividends that helped us win the match. So, it does look so far at least that Kohli is willing to pick horses for courses instead of blindly picking same team over and over again. This also means that there is always pressure on players to perform and not take their places in the team for granted, a welcome change from the ultra comfort all players enjoyed even when the team was getting beaten black and blue. I would rather have a captain who is willing to ring in the changes when things aren't working to expectations than a captain that plays by a fixed playbook and for whom the process mattered more than results even when said process was not achieving the right results time and time again. 

 

Totally agree with u on all points, 

i read his post match, where he gave the reason of picking bhuvi as he felt the outfield wont let the ball be new for longer duration as its not rough. Its was brilliant move and its shows how he would be flexible in changing the bowlers when wkts n outfield would be rough.

 

Yes on current form pujara place is questionable as his failure in overseas has put a big quetion mark on his ability to perform on away tour. The only problem we all have with him i guess is selection of rohit and benching Vijay. Vijay shud not be benched at any cost. As far as rohit goes well as someone said he has a right to pick player he wants as he believes it can work for the team . But i think we are lucky that rohit issue would be soughted in home series not in away tours. Most of us feel he is not good enough for test and it wont take time for it to be proved and kohli is someone who want persist with something long if its not working. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Ankit_sharma03

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

i read his post match, where he gave the reason of picking bhuvi as he felt the outfield wont let the ball be new for longer duration as its not rough. Its was brilliant move and its shows how he would be flexible in changing the bowlers when wkts n outfield would be rough.

 

Interesting  !  Kohli's  thought process and attitude  regarding bowlers is really good.  

Edited August 14, 2016 by express bowling

[Texan]

On 8/10/2016 at 4:38 AM, rkt.india said:

captain does not have confidence in Pujara who has helped them team win in 3 of the last 7 tests he played  but has confidence in Rohit's game changing ability in session which no one has seen yet. The ultimate stupidity.

He contributed in the Mohali test v/s SA and the Colombo Test v/s SL. Which is the third one?

 

Also, Pujara's average outside Asia is 29 in 29 innings, including only one hundred. He is a bully at home with an average of 64. In the limited matches that Rohit has played at home, he also averages 62.

[Texan]

Pujara outside Asia:

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/32540.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

 

[jalebi_bhai]

My humble opinion:

 

While I don't agree with all the decisions made by the K&K combo up to this point, the duo have earned themselves the opportunity to test out whatever theory they have floating in their heads at least in the next Test. The series has been won and it will be the last overseas test for a while. We can sort out the number 1 ranking in the home leg of our season. This final test, with the stakes being low, will be the perfect platform for Rohit to make a statement. Let's see how he fares. 

 

BTW, I am 100% against the decision of dropping both Vijay and Pujara to accommodate Dhawan and Rohit. Rohit doesn't even make it to the squad for me. But Kohli is enamored by him, along with most of the Indian cricketing fraternity. 

 

[HippoSucks]

I think Pujara can still develop into a very good batsman, but you can't blame Kohli for dropping him.  

Edited August 14, 2016 by HippoSucks

[zen]

10 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Stats for Indian batsmen since Pujara's comeback in SL last year:

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_average;spanmin1=28+Aug+2015;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

 

Tailunt with a jaw dropping average of 19 (barely ahead of Jaddu) is now the preferred option ahead of Pujara who averages 45+ which is even better than Kohli in the same phase.

 

I thought this chutiyapa with #intent #aggreshun #expressurself will stop with Kumble at the helm but what did I know.

Pujara's stats are impressive .... avg 45-46. Kohli avg 40-41, while Vijay avg only 31 .... surprisingly,  some folks are willing to root for Vijay but not Pujara

 

Vijay and Pujara,who play a lot of balls, and Rahane should feature in the 11. Kohli is captain so a default choice. Rahul can be the other opener 

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, Texan said:

He contributed in the Mohali test v/s SA and the Colombo Test v/s SL. Which is the third one?

 

Also, Pujara's average outside Asia is 29 in 29 innings, including only one hundred. He is a bully at home with an average of 64. In the limited matches that Rohit has played at home, he also averages 62.

what about Nagpur test? where both teams struggled to score 200. SA bowled out at 79 in the first innings. He had valuable contributions in both the innings.

 

Why are you excluding 145 in SL. You dont find such a pitch even outside Asia. Also FYI, Dravid had 1 hundred in his first 22 tests, so, according to some people like you here, he would been dropped and we would never have seen the legend he became later. Pujara has played 34 tests and already has 7 100s, one outside SC and one in SL but that pitch was as tough as you would find somewhere at Wanderers and I would not consider that as an SC pitch. He failed in Aus and those were actually flat pitches. None of our of batsmen did well in England. Vijay and Rahane did have one 100, but overall they failed too. Also, after openers, #3 is the toughest position to bat. Imagine Kohli and Rahane batting at # in England and NZ. My problem isnt dropping Pujara but problem do e have any option at #3. Kohli and Rahane are not exactly #3 batsmen. Why are we sacrificing Kohli and Rahane for Rohit. At least, Pujara has been blunting the new ball. You do not want Kohli to be exposed against the new ball. 

[Texan]

31 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

what about Nagpur test? where both teams struggled to score 200. SA bowled out at 79 in the first innings. He had valuable contributions in both the innings.

 

Why are you excluding 145 in SL. You dont find such a pitch even outside Asia. Also FYI, Dravid had 1 hundred in his first 22 tests, so, according to some people like you here, he would been dropped and we would never have seen the legend he became later. Pujara has played 34 tests and already has 7 100s, one outside SC and one in SL but that pitch was as tough as you would find somewhere at Wanderers and I would not consider that as an SC pitch. He failed in Aus and those were actually flat pitches. None of our of batsmen did well in England. Vijay and Rahane did have one 100, but overall they failed too. Also, after openers, #3 is the toughest position to bat. Imagine Kohli and Rahane batting at # in England and NZ. My problem isnt dropping Pujara but problem do e have any option at #3. Kohli and Rahane are not exactly #3 batsmen. Why are we sacrificing Kohli and Rahane for Rohit. At least, Pujara has been blunting the new ball. You do not want Kohli to be exposed against the new ball. 

I wouldn't exactly call his contributions in the Nagpur Test as match winning. It was one of several mid-size contributions along with other batsmen as nobody on either side could dominate.

 

By the way, on Dravid, even if he didn't have the 100s, he had plenty of 80s and 90s and was only struggling to get past the psychological 100 mark. And he was also equally comfortable in England, SA, WI and India. It wasn't like he was only scoring at home and struggling away. Also, the Pujara-Dravid comparisons are a bit stale now. Pujara is not a Dravid, he doesn't have the compact technique and the powers of concentration of a Dravid. Pujara, when on song, does have the appetite for big scores and grinding it out. He is a colossal at home and in familiar conditions, like in SL. I would like to see him succeed everywhere, but so far he has a lot to prove outside Asia. I agree on the part of not reshuffling the entire order just to accommodate Rohit, who doesn't even justify the sacrifice of the other players moving to unfamiliar batting slots.

[tweaker]

As Kohli has won the series,we have to back his decision,because inspite of having a very good side we were never good once we step outside.Once we were very poor against SL,as Jayasuriya was scoring 300 against us.

I think instead of giving importance to players ie Pujara,Vijay If Kohli is able to get results from selecting Rohit,Dhawan that is more important.

For long we have been concerned about individual performance now it is time to keep team performance above individual

 

If the team is winning without having the supposedly best players,than we should back Kohli & support his decision if he is able to give results

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

I wouldn't exactly call his contributions in the Nagpur Test as match winning. It was one of several mid-size contributions along with other batsmen as nobody on either side could dominate.

 

By the way, on Dravid, even if he didn't have the 100s, he had plenty of 80s and 90s and was only struggling to get past the psychological 100 mark. And he was also equally comfortable in England, SA, WI and India. It wasn't like he was only scoring at home and struggling away. Also, the Pujara-Dravid comparisons are a bit stale now. Pujara is not a Dravid, he doesn't have the compact technique and the powers of concentration of a Dravid. Pujara, when on song, does have the appetite for big scores and grinding it out. He is a colossal at home and in familiar conditions, like in SL. I would like to see him succeed everywhere, but so far he has a lot to prove outside Asia. I agree on the part of not reshuffling the entire order just to accommodate Rohit, who doesn't even justify the sacrifice of the other players moving to unfamiliar batting slots.

if Dravid did not have big runs then how can you say dravid had  power of concentration. Dravid only got better later in that aspect. Regarding technique, Both Pujara and Dravid oly has had one issue that was incoming delivery, otherwise, pujara is as solid as Drvaid was.

[rkt.india]

I would like people to name batsmen who can replace Pujara at 3 overseas. 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I would like people to name batsmen who can replace Pujara at 3 overseas. 

If Dhawan is undropable then Vijay should replace Pujara.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

5 hours ago, tweaker said:

As Kohli has won the series,we have to back his decision,because inspite of having a very good side we were never good once we step outside.Once we were very poor against SL,as Jayasuriya was scoring 300 against us.

I think instead of giving importance to players ie Pujara,Vijay If Kohli is able to get results from selecting Rohit,Dhawan that is more important.

For long we have been concerned about individual performance now it is time to keep team performance above individual

 

If the team is winning without having the supposedly best players,than we should back Kohli & support his decision if he is able to give results

 

Very good post.

 

Apart from Vijay's exclusion, all other changes have worked, we have now won the last 3 test series in a row, 2 of them overseas, and the team performance is commendable. 

 

No harm in criticizing individual issues but the overall mood among fans should be positive regarding the team's performance. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by express bowling

[Jimmy Cliff]

14 hours ago, tweaker said:

As Kohli has won the series,we have to back his decision,because inspite of having a very good side we were never good once we step outside.Once we were very poor against SL,as Jayasuriya was scoring 300 against us.

I think instead of giving importance to players ie Pujara,Vijay If Kohli is able to get results from selecting Rohit,Dhawan that is more important.

For long we have been concerned about individual performance now it is time to keep team performance above individual

 

If the team is winning without having the supposedly best players,than we should back Kohli & support his decision if he is able to give results

He's getting the results despite picking the likes of Rohit and Dhawan. That too against the worst Test team in the world bar Bangladesh. The irony is that most of his important Test wins as a captain wouldn't even have been possible without the contributions of Vijay and Pujara. Against better sides like SA last year it was the likes of Vijay and Pujara who got the runs when the heat was on (Just look at the scorecards for the 1st and the 3rd Tests of the series. Kohli and Rahane filled their boots in the dead rubber whereas hacks like Sharma and Dhawan sucked throughout.) His best result as a captain i.e. the away win in SL was only possible when Pujara batted through the innings on a greentop!

 

Heck, look at the last game that we won against the WI itself. It was the slow, stoic, attritional, old school partnership between Ashwin and Saha (not too different in terms of SR to Vijay/Pujara) that laid the foundation for the win when #aggreshive #intentful batsmen like Kohli, Sharma and Dhawan were embarrassed in the 1st innings. The fact that he can't realize what Vijay and Pujara bring to the side despite their contribution to his own wins as a captain while shoe-horning a tried and tested failure like Rohit (who's been outbatted by the likes of Mishra in the last year) in the side at every opportunity makes him look like an idiot.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Jimmy Cliff

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I would like people to name batsmen who can replace Pujara at 3 overseas. 

Rahane 

But before that tell me how successful was Pujara at 3 in overseas. 

Avg

Eng- 22

aus -33

wi-31

sa-70

NZ-15

 

Rahane has got the best technique against fast bowling including pace n movement, he has batted at at domestic. Before we get into specialist well ganguly started at 3 in eng n did well , dravid started at 5,6 did well and which in future interchanged . Sehwag debut with a 100 at 6 n became one a gr8 opener. Ricky pointing debut at 5 . Kallis n Sanga have batted all over. Vvs laxman had to bat at 6 but he did gr8 at 3 also. 

Steve smith , Root batted at diff position . We dont have a dravid for him someone like rahane has to leave the position if we find one well rahane can move back.

 

No body owns a place unless u have done something marvelous which pujara hasnt. 

As Far as rahane , he did score 140+ and most importantly he has done well at 3,4,5,6 everywhere.

Anyone can tell Rahane game against pace n movement is better than pujara and on the contatry pujara has also been found wanting against incoming deliveries. 

Rahane has done well in all conditions against all line ups and at all positions but tragedy is our best batsman is left with tail most times. Make him bat up n he'll score more which will add to team total. 

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

He's getting the results despite picking the likes of Rohit and Dhawan. That too against the worst Test team in the world bar Bangladesh. The irony is that most of his important Test wins as a captain wouldn't even have been possible without the contributions of Vijay and Pujara. Against better sides like SA last year it was the likes of Vijay and Pujara who got the runs went the heat was on (Just look at the scorecards for the 1st and the 3rd Tests of the series. Kohli and Rahane filled their boots in the dead rubber whereas hacks like Sharma and Dhawan sucked throughout.) His best result as a captain i.e. the away win in SL was only possible when Pujara batted through the innings on a greentop!

 

Heck, look at the last game that we won against the WI itself. It was the slow, stoic, attritional, old school partnership between Ashwin and Saha (not too different in terms of SR to Vijay/Pujara) that laid the foundation for the win when #aggreshive #intentful batsmen like Kohli, Sharma and Dhawan were embarrassed in the 1st innings. The fact that he can't realize what Vijay and Pujara bring to the side despite their contribution to his own wins as a captain while shoe-horning a tried and tested failure like Rohit (who's been outbatted by the likes of Mishra in the last year) in the side at every opportunity makes him look like an idiot.

 

Against better teams, our batting line-up may change.  Sometimes, captains tend to include one or two flat- track or weak-attack bullies in the team.  The WI attack had looked really weak in the first 2 tests ( looked much better in the last one because of the inclusion of Joseph and  better bowling by Cummins  )

 

I will be really surprised if Vijay does not get a chance against strong test teams.  He has always been in the team under Kohli's captaincy barring the last one ( if fit ).  

Edited August 15, 2016 by express bowling

[sandeep]

Kohli should get a ton of credit for the 5 bowler approach.  Its a ballsy approach that increases pressure on himself as a batsman but gives the team the absolute best chance to win.  He has provided that breath of fresh air as Captain that has re-invigorated the team and given the bowlers a great chance to re-boot and possibly develop further into genuine wicket-taking stars.  

 

And people have rightly made the case to consider benching Pujara, although I don't agree with that one.  

 

But the most egregious mistake here was benching Vijay.  The pujara drop on top of that just doubles down on that error.  Leave aside the Pujara drop, benching your best test batsman who has shielded the batting lineup against top attacks with the new ball and done so well.  Only to accomodate Rahul, did not make any sense.  It is difficult to justify under any scenario.  

 

And benching Vijay to bring in Talent?  Even maniac would not agree with that one.  And we all know how committed a supporter he is for the great wicket thrower. 

 

Kohli has made it clear that he believes in "backing" Rohit for the long-term and it was not a one-off.  To do so at the expense of jeopardizing the career of Vijay and Pujara is extremely questionable.   That is not in the team's best interests.  I will be looking to the great man of Indian cricket - Anil Kumble - to reign in some of Kohli's tendencies to double down and go overboard with some of these risky moves.  

 

******************

And to clarify, this criticism of Kohli has nothing to do with Dhoni or anything.  So please keep the pro and anti-Dhoni crap off of this thread.  There are some known morons who drag their agenda into unrelated threads constantly.  Please stay the eff away if you can't control your urge to troll.  

[philcric]

6 hours ago, sandeep said:

And benching Vijay to bring in Talent?  Even maniac would not agree with that one.

Do not underestimate the stupidity and irrationality of a fanboy.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by philcric

[express bowling]

Kohli  is playing with 4 bowlers today and has said that he may do the same in India , on pitches where the 5th bowler is not required.

 

I  don't know whether 4 bowlers are enough on this supposedly flat pitch. 

 

But, a general flexibility regarding the number of bowlers, whether 4 or 5, is what I wanted to see.  It is better to choose the number of bowlers based on the opposition, pitch and conditions.

Edited August 18, 2016 by express bowling