Harbhajan mocking Ashwin?

[Trichromatic]

3 hours ago, Texan said:

Even in home matches, he was not as devastating as Ashwin has been. Difference between the two is that Ashwin is a thinking bowler, who improves as he learns from mistakes. He is a vastly improved bowler from the time he started playing for India. Bhajji hit his peak early in his career and gradually just kept tapering off. There was no marked improvement in his bowling.

Yet to see good performance from Ashwin on flat decks. Bhajji did that against aussies early in his career. Bhajji was equally devastating on similar pitches on which Ashwin is playing.

[Trichromatic]

5 hours ago, New guy said:

Towards the end of his career, yes he dd struggle even on spinning wickets. His main weapon as bounce anyways. Check the links above where Yuvi was out performing him

Links? Lol there is one link of match where Yuvi outperformed himwhen he bowled 6 overs.

[rkt.india]

53 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Yes, we did. just more rare.

 

Yes, rare, one I remember was Mumbai 2004 against Aus. It's a norm now. Scoring 300 has a become a huge ask these days on such pitches.

[Trichromatic]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Yes, rare, one I remember was Mumbai 2004 against Aus. It's a norm now. Scoring 300 has a become a huge ask these days on such pitches.

Bhajji played most of the matches on the pitches where Indian batsmen scored 100s and 200s for fun and team score was 400-500 more often.  We used to have 200-300 scores in 2nd innings when pitches crumbled generally in 3rd and 4th inning. Bhajji averaged 22 at home in those and 26 overall.

 

That's his career stat. Don't think Bhajji and Kumble would have been doing worse than Ashwin at their prime.

[gakgupta]

13 hours ago, Texan said:

Even in home matches, he was not as devastating as Ashwin has been. Difference between the two is that Ashwin is a thinking bowler, who improves as he learns from mistakes. He is a vastly improved bowler from the time he started playing for India. Bhajji hit his peak early in his career and gradually just kept tapering off. There was no marked improvement in his bowling.

That's because, international teams work hard and figured him out with the help of camera's and all.......His main weapon was doosra which most teams figured it out after couple of season's......once, his doosra  was not effective anymore, it became difficult to perform consistently..

 

[Texan]

13 hours ago, rkt.india said:

We didn't have such pitches when bhajji played.

We have always had such pitches and Bhajji was slightly above average for most of his career after his 2001-02 peak. 

[Texan]

2 hours ago, gakgupta said:

That's because, international teams work hard and figured him out with the help of camera's and all.......His main weapon was doosra which most teams figured it out after couple of season's......once, his doosra  was not effective anymore, it became difficult to perform consistently..

 

In the 2001 series vs Aus, he was also letting the ball rip and getting aprreciable turn. More than the doosra, it was the turn, bounce and speed off the pitch that got him wickets. 

[panesarv]

He's not wrong you know, we are producing more dust bowls but there's no need to make such comments now. Always congratulate a successful person and move on. You will always come across bitter no matter what else you say.

Edited October 2, 2016 by panesarv

[Sandeep99]

Unfortunately he would not have done well even on turners.. Sehwag was the best offspinner for India during those days.. that says a lot about Harbhajan Singh.. what a fool!

[CG]

We have always had such pitches and Bhajji was slightly above average for most of his career after his 2001-02 peak. 

No thats totally untrue.We generally had flat pitches which turned in day 4,5.In rare case when we were down in the series like against sa we prepared turners.

[MCcricket]

Tracks got more worse During Dhonis captaincy, as he new how to play n win just on dust bowls  , before there used to be flat decks or some deciders on turners, Dhoni changed that as he never learnt to use his pacers or leg spinners n same reason we lost away miserably as well

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

For me there could be no bigger advantage than this that bhajji or many other spinners had over ashwin n pre t20 era also, so ajmal, bhajji shud avoid making any sought of comments

 

[Trichromatic]

2 hours ago, Texan said:

We have always had such pitches and Bhajji was slightly above average for most of his career after his 2001-02 peak. 

No we didn't. Pitches which are being in India these days are more similar to 3rd to 5th day pitch we had during 2000-2010.

 

Edited October 2, 2016 by Trichromatic

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, gakgupta said:

That's because, international teams work hard and figured him out with the help of camera's and all.......His main weapon was doosra which most teams figured it out after couple of season's......once, his doosra  was not effective anymore, it became difficult to perform consistently..

 

Nahi. He had stopped bowling dobara, not because they figured his doosra out.

 

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Sandeep99 said:

Unfortunately he would not have done well even on turners.. Sehwag was the best offspinner for India during those days.. that says a lot about Harbhajan Singh.. what a fool!

That's a real stupid comment.b bhajji has 400 test wickets, no fun 

[Sandeep99]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

That's a real stupid comment.b bhajji has 400 test wickets, no fun 

He was a great support bowler and that's about it. Not a lead material. Ashwin is a leader.. clear difference.

[Silva]

On 9/30/2016 at 7:16 PM, laaloo said:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/297808.html

 

 

6 overs no wickets where Yuvi got 2 in 3 overs.

1100 runs in the first 2 innings, south africa couldn't score that much in the last  7 innings they played in India.

 

recpect to anil kumble for almost winning that match. had he played on these pitches we have now he'd be unplayable.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Silva

[putrevus]

Bhajji is spot on , when he was in his prime he never got rank turners, even in 2001 series against Aussies no of them were rank turners. If India needs to improve they have to get away from these rank turners.Pitches will help spinners anyhow no need to prepare rank turners.

 

Ashwin is doing great and hopefully he does not need the support of pitches which Bhajji needed to be successful.

[Texan]

10 hours ago, CG said:

No thats totally untrue.We generally had flat pitches which turned in day 4,5.In rare case when we were down in the series like against sa we prepared turners.

Okay. For argument sake, lets say that the pitches started turning on day 4 or 5 during Bhajji's time. In that case, Bhajji must have been devastating on days 4 and 5 during the 4th innings at home. Lets take a look at how he stacks up. 

 

Kumble, who started a little earlier than him, but for a long time was his bowling partner averages 16 in the 4th innings of home Tests. 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30176.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;innings_number=4;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

 

Ashwin, who supposedly gets dust bowls also ends up averaging 15 in 4th innings at home:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/26421.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;innings_number=4;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

 

Now, supposedly, Harby should have wrecked havoc in 4th innings when the pitch offered turn and variable bounce and should have been a World beater in that department. Lets see how the stats stack up. 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/29264.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=1;innings_number=4;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

 

Huh...!!! He averages 25!!  That is poor for a spin bowler bowling in India and expected to run through opposition in 4th innings. That itself tells you that Bhajji was not quite as devastating even when conditions suited him. 

[Texan]

Add to this his records in Pak and SL, two other places where spinners get some assistance from the pitch. Pak often did have batting tracks when he played there, but still 355 runs without getting a single wicket is unacceptable even on batting tracks. That is the equivalent of letting a batsman score an unbeaten triple hundred. 

 

SL did offer tracks that assisted spinners and SL spinners made best use of the conditions, yet Bhajji's record even in SL is pretty poor.

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/29264.html?class=1;filter=advanced;host=7;host=8;orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling